Sandfire Dragon Ranch

[draggintails]

The lab I used for my EM testing was University of IL and the lab I used for my fecal PCR testing was University of FL.

The girl needs someone to help her, she needs a lab to send the blood to, her dragon has to be tested. If you know of a lab that does a blood test, why would this information be withheld? For what purpose would this be withheld?

Above are the labs I used, I am sorry this does not help you. I do not have any answers for you. I would help anyone I could if I had information...I don't understand why someone would withhold information on which lab was used.

 

[shrap]

Kevin,

Bobby Hill told me on the phone last night that Kevin stated to him personally that he "has it in his colony so there is no need for him to test". Because he already KNOWS IT. All the big breeders have it and they know it.

To Denise, if you got a blood test done that ID's Adeno then share what lab is doing the procedure. For no other reason than it is the RIGHT thing to do.

With that being said, I am out of this. Just spending the last two days researching to get my daughter a pet beardie has left me feeling dirty and disgusted with the entire beardie industry. I want nothing to do with it.

 

[varnyard]

Kevin,

Bobby Hill told me on the phone last night that Kevin stated to him personally that he "has it in his colony so there is no need for him to test". Because he already KNOWS IT. All the big breeders have it and they know it.

To Denise, if you got a blood test done that ID's Adeno then share what lab is doing the procedure. For no other reason than it is the RIGHT thing to do.

With that being said, I am out of this. Just spending the last two days researching to get my daughter a pet beardie has left me feeling dirty and disgusted with the entire beardie industry. I want nothing to do with it.

That is correct Sammy. He also said it in his post:

it is very likely that all bearded dragons have been exposed to Adenovirus, at some point, long before we even knew what it was.

This is his opinion, is he right, I don't know. He does feel that all beardies have been exposed, therefore testing would be useless. I will say he knows much more about these animals then me.

However, I am not saying that anyone should not test.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Tere, to back her false claims of testing by way of PCR Blood swab testing by Dr. Jacobson at the University of Florida .

-----------------

I actually had this question too when I decided to use PCR testing. The testing we did was not blood specific, but also required a cloacal swab to test for shed. I was told that the blood tests alone will pick up any trace of Adeno, not just the virus that is specific to bearded dragons and can be spread. The swab is used to confirm the test is beardie specific if the blood shows positive results.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Posted on
02-08-2007, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Denisebme
I actually had this question too when I decided to use PCR testing. The testing we did was not blood specific, but also required a cloacal swab to test for shed. I was told that the blood tests alone will pick up any trace of Adeno, not just the virus that is specific to bearded dragons and can be spread. The swab is used to confirm the test is beardie specific if the blood shows positive results.
I would also caution anyone choosing to test through their vets instead of through Dr. Jacobson of the University of Ill to ask a lot of questions beforehand to make sure that the lab your vet uses can accurately test for this virus.

02-09-2007, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Denisebme
I Ooops, I meant to say Dr. Jacobson OR the University of Ill. My understanding is that Dr. Jacobsons at the University of Florida is performing the PCR tests, and the University of Il is performing the Fecal EM tests.

 

[varnyard]

Originally Posted by Denisebme
The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw(Its a blood test).

......

Originally Posted by DenisebmeI didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

 

[varnyard]

Originally Posted by Denisebme:
All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing.

 

[Ed Clark]

As usual Ed, you are on the ball man..... Kevin from Sandfire already said his colony is infected.

Sammy, please show me where Kevin Dunn says that the Dragons at Sandfire Dragon Ranch have been tested and are 100% without a doubt infected with this virus. I may have missed something here and if I did I would like to be corrected.

 

[varnyard]

Sammy, please show me where Kevin Dunn says that the Dragons at Sandfire Dragon Ranch have been tested and are 100% without a doubt infected with this virus. I may have missed something here and if I did I would like to be corrected.

Ed, Kevin said it is very likely that all bearded dragons have been exposed to Adenovirus, at some point, long before we even knew what it was.

The fact is, there are only two breeders that claim they do not have this virus (that I know of). One is Denise, the other has just been proven on another site to be lying about testing. The doctor she claims done her testing just posted she has not tested her dragons.

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=49918&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

So that makes it only one now, that would be Denise.

 

[Ed Clark]

Bobby, I know what Kevin said about it and it seems like just about everyone is in agreement about the fact that every Dragon could be a carrier. the tests just dont seem to be up to speed yet with this virus and there is alot of uncertainty. some are trying to put the blame on others with out no SOLID proof. the way the tests are Im not sure they can prove with out a show of a doubt if a Dragon is infected or not

This reminds me alot like when coccidia popped up in Dragons in the 1990's and people were trying to put the blame on someone when it was wide spread and no one was testing.

 

[whiskersmom]

Chasity is not even Chasity. Her name is Cathy and she was banned last year from BD.org for lying and creating chaos.

A few days ago Chasity PM'd me at BD.org and gave me her email address. When I emailed her for the first time, this is what I received back...............................


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:21:36 -0800
From: "Cathy Fout" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: My spam filter requires verification of your email address
To: sherrisworld********

Hello,

You have reached Cathy Fout.

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__________________________________

When I received this email, I got a little suspicious and today went to her Bearded Dragon site and looked at her contact page.
This is what it says...................................

Email : [email protected]

Phone : (360)922-0077 or cell (360)393-7026

Snail Mail : Cathy Fout (FFE)

1122 East Badger Rd

Lynden, WA 98264

Physical Location :

1610B Peace Portal Drive

Blaine, WA 98230
________________________________________

http://borderdragons.com/contact.html


If you happen to read this Cathy....SHAME ON YOU! I befriended you and took your side........I can't believe you have no problems with lying to myself and all these people.

 

[Griz]

With that being said, I am out of this. Just spending the last two days researching to get my daughter a pet beardie has left me feeling dirty and disgusted with the entire beardie industry. I want nothing to do with it.

Heck Sammy, boa's are better and if your daughter wants one, I just had a small litter that she can pick from for free. Who needs those stinken lizards anyways!

Griz

 

[varnyard]

Chasity, was the other one that claimed to have the clean test.

 

[dden]

I don't normally post on the BOI because I don't like to take part in the bashing, but I just want to say this:
I NEVER claimed that all bearded dragons had Adenovirus. I just said that, in my opinion, based on the results from so many tests that others had reported, it was possible that most, if not all, bearded dragons would test positive at some point in their lives. Any statements that I made were my own opinion...I never quoted any veterinarian. It is very likely that Michelle's dragon came from Sandfire through Pet-co, but it was probably not produced here. During the later part of the season, we purchase a few thousand dragons, from throughout the country, for distribution to our pet store chains. Michelle bought her dragon at a time when our production was probably already finished for the year, since we house all of our breeding groups outdoors and they tend to stop producing early in the fall. We have never had our dragons tested for Adenovirus, simply because, as we understand it, a negative test does not mean anything conclusive. Additionally, since we have upwards of 1-2 thousand adult bearded dragons, it would not do much good to only test a portion of them. If a dragon appears sick, we simply don't sell it. If a customer buys a dragon and it gets sick or does not do well, we replace it...always have, always will.

 

[Neverland Dragons]

Kevin, I do feel that this is wide spread, But I also think you have to look at how many tests were preformed versus how many dragons are in the U.S. The Univ of IL said that of 225 samples, 72% were positive and 28% were negative. Keep in mind that over 50 of those samples were from my colony that had almost 100% infection. Now, I did submit bins for testing because of costs. Tammy Aldrich said she did the same thing. So, yes the numbers are a little higher. But the negatives may have been grouped together as well. I also understand that the Univ of FL has had a 90%+ positive rate. So, how many samples did that include? I also think we need to realize that it is probable that the people testing suspected problems in their colonies. We do not have all of the keepers with healthy dragons sending in samples. So, I do think testing results need to be kept in perspective, but I also think that the number of positive dragons is significant. But, in my opinion, the rate is high due to the spread of this virus by breeders and not because dragons have carried it all along.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

My dragons are and always have been very healhy and I have 100% positive. I have many friends that have healthy dragons and mysterious illnesses or die offs and they too have 95%-100% positive results.

It is my opinion that dragons have been carriers of this virus for a long time. It wasn't until recently that testing has identified it. Before that time breeders and hobbiests were having unexplained things happening in a season and wrote it off as failure to thrive, bad genes, bad husbandry, etc, etc....... But now that we have this testing and an identified virus it seems that everything strange that has ever happened is being blamed on the virus.

I don't buy it.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

I have many friends that have healthy dragons and mysterious illnesses or die offs and they too have 95%-100% positive results.

***I have many friends that have healthy dragons and have NO mysterious illnesses or die offs and they too have 95%-100% positive results. ***

 

[Neverland Dragons]

There are still MANY dragons in the U.S. Clyde was healthy w/o any problems and he was a carrier. I do not think that all ailments are attributed to adenovirus. Also, I am not referring to any one specifically when saying it was spread by breeders. I also do think some knew about it when it could have made a difference, but decided it was no big deal. I also think that many people unknowingly sold babies that were carriers. I have no doubt that Clyde's breeder did not know he was a carrier of adenovirus when he sold him to me. I do not think there are any easy answers when it comes to this virus.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

There are still MANY dragons in the U.S. Clyde was healthy w/o any problems and he was a carrier. I do not think that all ailments are attributed to adenovirus. Also, I am not referring to any one specifically when saying it was spread by breeders. I also do think some knew about it when it could have made a difference, but decided it was no big deal. I also think that many people unknowingly sold babies that were carriers. I have no doubt that Clyde's breeder did not know he was a carrier of adenovirus when he sold him to me. I do not think there are any easy answers when it comes to this virus.

I can agree with your entire post, Wendy. At this point in time, anything is possible.

 

[draggintails]

I want to make it absolutely clear that I have never had problems in my colony..NEVER! I began testing because I bought 12 dragons from 12 different breeders last Fall and all tested positive. Doc said.."girl, quit wasting your money on other people's dragons and test your own" I didn't want to bother because as you all know Papa and I have been breeding beardies for more than 10 yrs with a MOST EXCELLENT reputation for putting out good, healthy babies without health issues, that is an undisputable fact.

Wendy, I am not saying you are targeting me...not at all, I just want people to know that yes, we had AV positive dragons come back and they were magnificent animals...I said were. I was following suggestion and protecting the public and the animals that had negative tests. My duty and my responsibility I want to call myself a breeder and keep my reputation. Upon retesting the negatives dwindled..until I was left with a little bitty group. It is sick. Then I find out that all these people saying they are negative were lying and that heresay from a site saying that many breeders tested negative..I asked to see proof and was told they were told this. This led to the demise of magnificent, loving animals. I am not proud of it, I thought I was doing right, I don't want positive animals in here..I am the protector of my colony and I acted without asking for proof.....I believed. I flippin believed.

I am not going to listen to heresay any longer, if you are all clean, this must be verified by a legal document (medical record). If you go on a public forum and announce this it must be proven. There are people doing what I stupidly, insanely did because they believe. I am the most skeptical, suspicious person I know and I don't know what happened to me. I really dont care about anyone anymore, I am interested in test results and I just want the truth, but garbage heresay and garbage tracking results that are heresay has caused me incredible emotional trauma.

The amount of testeds were deplorable, however, those are our statistics because those are the amount of dragons that participated and thats all.

Test your dragons people.