• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

sandfire dragon ranch

you can call kevin at sandfire and ask him yourself.the #is on the website.and actually he came on here earlier and spoke and did not deny anything i had to say
 
ask him these questions:"do you believe you have adeno?" "will you test?".i am not saying he is shipping sickly beardies,in fact he says that"sadly if the beardie seems sickly before it is shipped we euthanize it".
 
puppytoes72 said:
mark,i saw the paperwork myself,jojo did come from sandfire 1 week b4 i bought her.i spoke to sandfire and they also believe she came from there too.so YES,i can prove that she did come from there.how many people have their pet tested for adeno and go back to tell petco?im sure it is not many,but i was trying to do the right thing,so YOU saying that YOU have never had any complaints from customers is not surprising because most will not go to the lengths i did to find out!
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As you so clearly pointed out in another thread, Puppytoes. I don't take what you say as anything more than hearsay.......
 
from what i have read (and i have done alot of reading on this in the last couple days as it interests me alot ) the adenovirus is suspected of being present in most if not all bearded dragons in the US . if this is so , i dont see how sandfire is doing anything wrong in not testing . i am not saying that testing is a bad thing , quite the opposite . it just seems to me that if all or almost all beardies can test positive at sometime in their life , does it really make that much difference if you dont test ? a breeder would already know that in every likely hood their animals carry the virus .

everything i have read so far has said that adenovirus on its own is not likely to be a problem , it's when combined with stress or other factors it can become a problem .

it just seems unfair to target one breeder when a good number of them follow similar procedures . i do applaud those breeders who do test , but i wont condemn those that dont .
 
puppytoes72 said:
who are you to demand to see proof???? i have the proof and sandfire is not denying it.i am not saying anything against your customers but why dont you ask them who has tested for adeno??i never said that jojo was sold to me sick,i stated that she has adeno.im curious ,who are you defending here?sandfire?what do you have in all of this?i try to do the right thing and notify the public(when the breeders should be)and i get attacked for it.lol,im not playing your game.i did what i came to do and thats it.why dont you pay attention before you speak and put words in my mouth.
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also just to clarify , i never once demanded proof of anything . i asked politely if you can show proof . there is a big diffrence . i am sorry if you took my simple questions as demands or attacks .
 
no problem,im sorry too.im just trying to do the right thing and its so sad that it turned into a 15 page argument.i felt that it was my duty as a fellow beardie lover to warn people.
 
Puppytoes.
I think you are going about it wrong. You really are attacking Keven and Sandfire.
Jim.
 
Tere, as well as Denise show me anywhere I said Florida. I said they are not testing the blood for this virus at all. Now if you care to show proof they are, then by all means post proof. Otherwise it is you that made this up in your wild dreams. Just like the facts about you testing anything, IMO I doubt you have tested at all, you sure have not provided any proof at all about testing or any blood test used on this virus. If so, prove me wrong, or keep telling this story without any proof at all. :shootfoot :NoNo:

You cannot provide a lab, because there is none that have used blood as a way to prove this virus is in dragons. That is 100% fact. :yesnod:
 
Rebel Dragons said:
As you so clearly pointed out in another thread, Puppytoes. I don't take what you say as anything more than hearsay.......
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ok,whatever mike,i have nothing to prove to you.
 
JimD said:
Puppytoes.
I think you are going about it wrong. You really are attacking Keven and Sandfire.
Jim.
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you can think what you want jim,i am just stating the facts.
 
Hello

Hello,

This is flat out ridiculous. What is wrong with everyone? Why does it have to be an argument? We are supposed to be doing what is best for the dragons, & yet all that is getting done is arguing over who is right & who is wrong?
What is wrong is that most of the stock here in the US is infected because of the ignorance that alot of earlier breeders showed back in the times when dragons were being imported over here.
Has anyone talked to the Aussies about this anyway? Apparently not. They do not have a problem with adeno in their stocks. There are several reasons for this. One, they do not overbreed & exploit dragons such as the US does. Two, they have extremely strict importation & quarantine laws, which also enforces permits to obtain a bearded dragon. So, between all of that, it is virtually impossible to spread disease & virus.
I have talked to several people over there as well as a vet & they all completely disagree with the fact that ALL bearded dragons carry the virus. They really do think that it is something that was possibly imported when the dragons were exposed to another species or something to that effect. The reason a huge majority of dragons in the US have it now is because no one did anything about the earlier outbreaks, & ignored it hoping it would go away. Instead, it has infected the colonies & is now widespread.
I don't know maybe requiring permits might help as it would cut down on impulsive buying of dragons to people who have no idea what they are doing. Plus, it would also help with quarantining animals which obviously hasn't been done on a large scale, either.

Tracie
 
Well one thing I cannot understand as well. The gripe here is that people won't test for the virus, but when asked where these so (called blood tests) were done they have no answer. You want to complain about not testing, but then when asked what lab done the testing you clam up.

My thoughts are you cannot post results or give them to any (trusted/respected) member here for the simple fact you have not tested. You claim to have tests done on your animals that does not exist. I have called you both out on this one and guess what? Once again you have no proof of any such test, the reason being there is no such blood test for this virus.

Now people can say this is a conflict, this might be so, but IMO it would be a scam to claim to have tested your animals, as well as selling them as free from this virus based on a test that does not exist.

This is exactly what it looks like to me. Denise and Tere are doing this by that claim. Would it be right to claim to test dragons with a blood test that never existed? Would this be a scam? You bet ya 100%.

Those are the facts, they cannot give me or this board any information on any blood test for this virus because there is none. Now does this reek to high heavens with fish? You bet it does!!
 
The two threads in the discussion forum have been merged and moved to the BOI where it is more appropriate for these types of threads.

Michele, I would strongly suggest you stop making multiple threads about this topic and stop resurrecting old threads. Keep the discussion in ONE place.
 
This topic is of IMMENSE interest to me, as I happened to purchase a snake in the summer of '06 that later died of cryptosporidium. The breeder I purchased from ended up having to euthanize a good number of breeding animals due to a virus that affects some snakes and doesn't affect others. Adeno seems to have the same M.O. as crypt.

I will say I am GLAD that threads like this exist, if only to spread the word about viruses like this. It's important that we as hobbyists engage in discussions of these viruses that are winding their way through our populations, in order to discuss methods of reducing the spread of the virus, and methods for protecting our own stock. That being said, the reptile hobby, like anything, should be approached from a "buyer beware" perspective... and saying "I am a newby!" is no excuse for not doing proper research. I knew about crypt well before my new snake came down with it... and never, ever, thought it would happen to me!

I do have a few comments... first, I am wondering, Michele, if you have proof that the animal contracted the virus BEFORE it left Sandfire Ranch?? Could it not also have contracted the virus from the cage it was housed in at Petco? Or the animals it traveled with during the trip from Petco's shipping hub to the local stores?? I know that crypt is nearly impossible to kill- in fact, only pure 100% ammonia will do it, and even that's not a "sure" thing. I am going to assume that adeno at least needs to be bleached. I sincerely doubt that PetCo thouroughly cleans and disinfects their cages in between shipments of animals, as the cages I have seen at PetCo are not removeable from the stands, and so would be nearly impossible to bleach or soak in any way.

I also understand what Sandfire is saying about their animals. When you are producing 9000 dragons a year, that's a lot of breeders, and an awful lot of expense. In an ideal world, we would see them willing to spend the money to do the tests. But the costs would more than likely be astronomical, and they are running a business with all the bottom lines that a business entails. I believe it is admirable of them to admit that they believe their stock has been exposed to adeno virus. You will not find many people in the snake trade willing to admit that their stock has been exposed to crypt, and I think that that is a big part of the problem. How can we work to correct problems like these if we can't even talk about it?

So now we know. Sandfire believes that their stock PROBABLY has come into contact with adeno virus, but so far we have seen no proof from anyone that the adeno virus strain in question most definitely came from them, and not from PetCo. We have only their own admission that they believe most stock in the US has been exposed to it at some point or another. Okay.

So if you are going to buy a dragon from them, know the risks. Have the dragon tested. But be aware that you have to test it many times in order to get a true negative (three seems to be the "magic number" for most viral diseases I have read about). If you as an individual are going to use a Sandfire Dragon as a breeder, by all means have it tested. Quarantine your animals and maintain strict sanitary standards. But don't get into a pissing contest with a big time breeding business who has already admitted that they are not able/willing to test all of their breeding stocks. If you don't like that, don't buy from them. You have gotten more from them than many breeders would have offered, IMHO.

Finally, since PetCo was the middle man here, do they not ultimately have responsibility for this animal? PetCo has serious issues across the board with health and husbandry, and the only thing they did was show you some paperwork from Sandfire that may have belonged to the shipment your dragon came in on, and said "Here's a number, go call them." You have the unverified word of a PetCo manager who may or may not be telling the truth. Sounds an awful lot like dodging the bullet to me. Did PetCo offer you a refund? Did they offer to pay for the treatment? If not, why not? Does PetCo plan to test all of their stock prior to sale? Or are they not responsible? Did they do anything besides point fingers at the supplier? That seems typical with the song and dance that most chain stores ply... whether we are talking about reptile diseases or sale of giant fish to the general public.
 
This thread was moved to the BOI.

Fingers are being pointed at Sandfire Dragon Ranch by some, here on the BOI you need to post proof of any wrong doing.

So anyone that has stated their Dragon came from Sandfire please post your reciepts from Sandfire and post those tests that proves the Dragon is infected.
 
puppytoes72 said:
ok,whatever mike,i have nothing to prove to you.
Click to expand...
No, you don't puppytoes.

Just by bringing this to the BOI you have placed yourself in a position of having to prove it to everyone.
 
Rebel Dragons said:
No, you don't puppytoes.

Just by bringing this to the BOI you have placed yourself in a position of having to prove it to everyone.
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actually in the sticky thread here it says"proof is optional"i dont HAVE to do anything,although when i have a chance i might upload my proof from my camera.(receipt,shipping invoice and email from lou ann).not sure if i will though because you guys will shoot it down no matter what i post.call kevin at sandfire,he doesnt deny that there is adeno in the colony,actually he stated to me that ALL beardies have it.bye bye
 
puppytoes72 said:
actually in the sticky thread here it says"proof is optional"i dont HAVE to do anything,although when i have a chance i might upload my proof from my camera.(receipt,shipping invoice and email from lou ann).not sure if i will though because you guys will shoot it down no matter what i post
Click to expand...

No, you don't, but that statement certainly adds nothing to your credibility, and frankly, seems a bit immature.
 
Puppytoes, you did the right thing, you notified the breeder. Who by the way, admitted to having adeno. You don't have to prove a thing to anyone. No one gains from bickering and putdowns.

Getting warnings and threats is really quite amusing to me. I have read this whole post and have only read garbage thrown at each other.

By the way, Rebel Dragons, do not and I say do not link any of my posts to your website. You will not see any from now on. It's sort of sad because people could learn by looking "outside the Box" in a lot of husbandry issues in Adeno Positive Dragons but I don't want any association with your website. I will make this known.

Sandy
 
You are correct that proof is optional...........BUT, it becomes more than name calling and strengthens your case when proof is provided. ;)
puppytoes72 said:
actually in the sticky thread here it says"proof is optional"i dont HAVE to do anything,although when i have a chance i might upload my proof from my camera.(receipt,shipping invoice and email from lou ann).not sure if i will though because you guys will shoot it down no matter what i post.call kevin at sandfire,he doesnt deny that there is adeno in the colony,actually he stated to me that ALL beardies have it.bye bye
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