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Scales N Tails BAD NEWS!

Kat, your are wrong about them being "reptile brokers". less than 20% of thier animals come from breeders. Most of them come from importers(i.e. Bushmaster Reptiles, Xtreme, Cal Zoo).
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Jesse - To requote a quote that has been quoted many times before... 98% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I'm sure you mean well - but statements with no "meat" have no place here.


As a note to end - the two that did survive - after very intensive care - are not Pogona vitticeps as they were sold, but appear to be a mix of vitticeps and rankins, and not pure bred.
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Skye - I'm curious, how did you determine this?

Look guys - I'm not here to defend Scales N Tails to the grave. I've seen some stuff in their stores that I do not agree with. Then again - I've had animals sent to me from major wholesalers and dealers that were much worse.

The herp shop business is a tough one... And anyone in the business will vouch for this. Some people try their very best to do a good job - and some people don't try quite as hard.

We can sit here and whine about it, or we can actually do something about it. I've found that most herp store employees will actually listen to you - if you can just prove to them that you DO know what you are talking about, and you're not just regurgitating something you read on the internet.

It's real easy - a simple introduction. Hi, my name is _____, and I keep ____. I noticed your ____ doesn't looks so good. I would recommend doing ____.

And if you have a problem with an animal you purchased - The same approach works pretty good. My favorite: "What can we do to make this right?"
 
Kat can take care of herself, I am certain, but I hate to see such things being stated, so I am taking it upon myself to ask the following: What exactly, constitutes a "broker" in your mind, Jesse?

You wrote, "Kat, your are wrong about them being 'reptile brokers'. less than 20% of thier animals come from breeders. Most of them come from importers(i.e. Bushmaster Reptiles, Xtreme, Cal Zoo)." However, I had no idea that the origin of the animals being sold was the determining factor of whether the seller was a broker.

I thought that if you bought animals from **somewhere** for the purpose of reselling them at a profit, that made you a broker of those animals. Is that not correct?

If it is, how are the people in question not brokers? If they broker reptiles, does that not make them reptile brokers? If so, how is Kat wrong, exactly?
 
(none)

As i previously stated. A very good friend of mine worked there. And although that stat was made up on the spot, it WAS an accurate ESTIMATE. Mark, all i know is that most of thier animals are W.C. With the obvious exception of colubrids, boas, beardies, leopard geckos, and a few other animals that are widely bred by hobbyists. Thier stores are extremely unsanitary. That should be a main concern, no matter how "tough" the reptile store buisness is.
Jesse Smith
 
The herp shop business is a tough one... And anyone in the business will vouch for this.
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Very well said... In rereading my post, it came off more negative than I would have liked, mostly because I've worked (and currently work) in specialty retail, I've been where they are and I see how they could be doing much better than they are.

With that being said though... The place has three or four locations, clearly they have to be having success. In order to have the success required for that sort of expansion from a small locally owned business, there have to be repeat customers.

I suspect strongly that the Englewood Scales and Tails had quite a lot to do with ProExotics closing their retail front, it's impossible for quality to compete with quantity and low prices sometimes.

I have seen much *MUCH* nicer reptile specialty shops, with better animals, better employees, better animal care and even better prices but I have also seen many more which are far worse.

I also agree with the statements about the choice which was offered regarding the vet bills. Many others wouldn't even offer that... should the animal have been sold in the condition it was? Probably not... Do mistakes happen? Unfortunately yes.
 
I guess

First off Kat suggested that Scales bought all or most of thier reptiles from breeders. Which i know for a fact this is not true.
Darin, tell me if this definition sounds like a RETAIL store to you.

American Heritage Dictionary

bro.ker n

One who acts as an agent for others in negotiating contracts, purchases, or sales in return for a fee or commission.
NO IT DOESNT

A broker is a guy who cruises KS, looking for good deals, and offers the animals to someone else for a higher price.

Thats how Kat is wrong, Darrin.
Jesse Smith
 
Seamus. Unfortunatly you are right about scales being responsible for the closing of Pro's retail store. There is no other explination. Did you read the memo Robin sent out regarding the closing of the store to the customers on his mailing list? IF not i will have to get you a copy.
Jesse Smith
 
Generally...

In the reptile business the broker rarely see's an animal or even lays hands on it. They will get a pic of the specimen then offer it for sale. Most brokers have the specimen drop shipped from the supplier/breeder. Again most brokers sell animals they have never personally dealt with or seen.
 
EXACTLY

My point exactly. Thanks Raymond.
Hey Darinn, what is your address? I would like to send you a dictionary for Xmas.LOL.
Jesse Smith
 
Ah well... I stand corrected then. They are reptile 'resellers'.

On the subject of ProExotics, I will grant you that their store was alot cleaner than Scales N Tails (of which, I've only been in the South Broadway location), however...

At ProExotics I came across a cal king with a bloodied nose from rubbing on its container that no one seemed to have noticed or cared about.

At ProExotics, they seem to have trouble sexing ADULT supposedly proven breeder cornsnakes -- a friend of mine and I bought a 'pair' of proven breeders off them. Turned out that they were BOTH males. Either they were missexed, or the salesman blatantly lied.

At ProExotics, they had a trio of ghost adult corns up for sale that had produced a total of 30 eggs out of two clutches each. An average of 7.5 eggs per clutch. They were shocked and amazed that I'd mentioned getting 15 eggs in a cornsnake clutch. Say what? Either they didn't breed a whole lot of cornsnakes themselves, or something's a little off with their husbandry practices that they've never seen a clutch that size...

At ProExotics, they had a cage with beardies that were missing toes and tailtips.

Now, I realize this isn't a thread about ProExotics, but since somebody brought it up, I figured I'd put in my two cents. I don't think Scales N Tails was the ENTIRE reason ProExotics closed... I think ProExotics had a hand in their own closure. After all, if they can't give the true sex of adult snakes... something's wrong.

-Kat Hall
 
The funniest post i have read in ages

A COUPLE OF THINGS.
1. "Reptile Resellers"(not even sure if resellers is a word, but what the hell, i will run with it)
How old are you? You would have to be a child not to understand the concept of retail. Do you call your local King Soopers grocery resellers?NO. Take notes here. They purchase some thing from a WHOLESALER(look it up). Something that you can't buy at that price(because you aren't a buisness). Then in turn offer it for sale to the general consumer. I guess "resellers" is a very ignorant way to put it, but this is a large part of our economy, i am suprised you didn't learn this in High school.
2. You are right this isn't a thread about Pro Exotics. BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP......................
I have been going to pro exotics for a LONG time. And i can't remember a time when they sold cali kings(if they did then i wasn't looking hard enough). If they did then it was a rescue. You obviously know nothing about them. They have a bank of ball pythons over 200 strong, pieds,albinos,axans,ghost,pastels, every morph in the book. And have produced many, many babies. They deal with VERY HIGH end colubrids(i.e. E.Coxi,mandarins,rhyno rats). How did these apparently "uneducated" shop owners manage to produce HUNDREDS of babies last year. Snow Boas, Black throat monitors, argus monitors, Albino boas,E.coxi, Rhyno Rats,albino bloods, sounds like the collection of someone who might know just a BIT more than you about reptiles. You are questioning the integrity of some of the biggest guys in the biz. BOLD. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BAD GUY POST ABOUT ROBIN OR CHAD OR PRO EXOTICS. WHY?
Jesse Smith
 
thanks for the support Jesse, i appreciate that.

but we have sold colubrids, including regular corns and kings, lots of them, in our front display case most often : )

we don't do any rescues, adoptions, giveaways, abandonments or trades however : )

as for a nose rubbed raw, that would be extremely out of place, i can't imagine an animal like that on display in our store.

a retail store that is indeed now closed (well, 95% closed : ). but not because of Scales and Tails, lol.

sure, i was tired of folks buying some horrible animal somewhere else, and being sent by the other stores to Pro Exotics to "to learn how to care for it". that wasn't cool, and happened all the time ("what are these little black bugs? are the pelvic bones supposed to show like that?")

i also didn't like to hear about some half dead w.c. animal for $25 being compared to our own captive bred stock for $75 ("can't you just match the price?"). nor was it fun to play the "i already spent $125 at the other store, and that animal died, can't you give me a discount, i am already out $125!" game.

a retail store and a breeding operation/internet mail order business are two totally different creatures. sure, the retail store made money, but it wasn't at all about that, and in the end, the pros were simply outweighed by the cons.

i would much rather spend time and energy with my mail order customer, typically a reptile hobbyist, passionate about the animals and their care, than spend time and LOTS of energy with Spur of the moment Joe, who wants to nickel and dime you over the "cheapest" animal possible (lots of house geckos and anoles) and "do i really need a heat pad, my house is already pretty warm..." and "can i just feed hot dogs?"

i usually feel great about the animals we ship all over the country. too often, i felt real dread sending "cheap" animals with incomplete setups out the door of the retail store.

15% of our local customers are really awesome, the passionate, knowledgeable herpers that everyone loves.

84% of walk in retail customers love the idea of the "disposable pet" and that is just not cool.

1% are haters that like to take shots at us and come up with reasons to down us. you're right, we suck. you win : )
 
Jesse,

Here you go thanks to dictionary.com:

re·sell ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rsl)
tr.v. re·sold, (-sld) re·sell·ing, re·sells
To sell again.
To sell (a product or service) to the public or to an end user, especially as an authorized dealer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reseller n.

Those grocery stores are resellers. They buy and then resell to the pubic.

In the world of political correctness that can be found in the reptile world some make a difference about breeders, brokers and resellers (personally I don't as I've seen quality and lack thereof at all levels of the game).
 
THanks Daniel

Thanks DAniel, i couldn't find it in my dictionary, altough it is a bit out of date.I guess the point i was trying to make was, Scales n tails is a legitimate retail establishment, not just resellers. Like i said i guess resellers is an ignorant way to put it.

Robin, i totally agree. I have seen nothing but the highest quality of animals in your store. A bloodied kingsnake i might expect in Scales but not Pro.
Jesse Smith
 
P.S. Robyn

It was a sad day when you guys shut down your store. You were by FAR the best in Denver, and probably one of the best around. I miss you guys.
Jesse Smith
 
Alright, let's clear things up a minute...

First off, I don't hate either store. I don't hate the owners of either store. I don't wish either of them ill. The purpose of my previous post was not meant to suggest that ProExotics is/was a horrible place, nor am I arguing that Scales N Tails is angelic and above reproach.

The sole point of my post was to point out that even ProExotics is not entirely flawless.

I suppose I should have pointed out that king when I saw it, but I really wasn't sure how well it would have been received by the salesclerk. I -DID- see a king with a bloodied nose. He was sitting in a delicup (likely having cut his nose on the airholes) in that nice stair-stepped display case that was facing the front doors of the store, and he was smearing the blood on the plastic, trying to get out.

It's not an image that's easy to forget. (Of course, neither is the image of the dead cornsnake in the container in Scales N Tails...)

Perhaps I was overly zealous in my previous post (I suppose the clutch-size comment was a little out of line, since corns aren't their specialty). Like I said, I don't want to come off like I'm crusading to take anyone down. Just trying to make a point. No store is perfect.

And I do think the fact that Scales N Tails is offering to pay half the vet bill is doing the right thing.

-Kat Hall
 
Nothing like trying to get along with people to liven up the thread, Huh Jesse? My dictionary is fine, but you and I both know that the definition of the word in Webste's and how it is used in the herp industry are often times two different things.

No one was taking shots at anyone. At least not until you started being condescending to people here.

Have a great day!
 
Im just curious if Scales N Tails in Denver was once known as Mile High Reptiles a few years back ?
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Not that I'm aware of - but I've only lived in Colorado for a few years... Maybe someone else will remember otherwise.

There have been several "Mile High" herp ventures in the Denver area... Guess it's a common theme ;-)
 
Re: ??

Dembinski Reptiles said:
Im just curious if Scales N Tails in Denver was once known as Mile High Reptiles a few years back ?
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I don't rememver a Mile High Reptiles, but I do know that Scales N Tails has had the same name since the mid 90's (93ish on). There is a Mile High Herp and they post occasionally on Fauna and KS.

Zachary Lujan.
 
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