Bad Guy Scam Artist Keven Vogenberger

[Keven2]

Another lie I'm not kick off any uromastyx page I will post a pic of me being on it right now. Everything out of your mouth is a lie!

 

[Keven2]

Me not being kicked off the page. I can't believe the stuff coming out off your mouth

 

[Keven2]

You know you never even told me they were sick and I know why. It's because you knew that you never got enclosures for them. I'm telling you right now if you would have had these and cared for them properly and something happened I would more then likely replace it just like I am that frog. I only offer a live arrival guarantee but if those things honestly failed cause of something I did I would replace them but I know if I send you another you will just kill it too. I absolutely hate to hear that any animal suffers and dies. I'll take responsibility for not getting pics of your enclosure this is something that will happen every time from now on but you blatantly lied to me to get me to send them. I told you they would not live in together in a 20 gallon tank. I'm so mad at you not for this humiliating post you put up here I'm so freaking mad cause you killed that Saharan. It wasn't a newbie mistake you lied to get what you wanted and the uromastyx paid the price! I'm literally sick to my stomach right now knowing I sent that uro to you!

 

[AppEcto]

OK, I've attempted to wade through the drama on facebook for relevant details. Neither party comes out smelling like a rose, but I'll attach screenshots of what seemed to be the most pertinent information to me so we have a lasting record on the BOI.

In the interest of establishing a time frame, they arrived February 20th (Tabea stated they arrived on the 19th, but that was a Monday and the screenshots of their messages show the correct timeframe). There was some miscommunication and they were apparently shipped on the wrong day. A heat pack was used and they arrived alive, but Keven made it a point to state there would be no live arrival guarantee due to temperatures. This undermines his claims about concern for the animals' well-being as well as her grievance since she willingly accepted animals without a live arrival guarantee and they lived in her care for weeks afterwards.

 

[AppEcto]

She alternatively claims they were housed together for only a day, less than a week, and then shows/claims they were together for nearly 3 weeks. She also acknowledges everyone told her not to house together, yet she still did.

 

[AppEcto]

One lost a toe, but she doesn't believe it was bitten off by the larger individual because she didn't see it happen. She also states she knows she's to blame for killing the one that died.

 

[AppEcto]

She claims he was seen by a vet and medicated, all free of charge and without any records. According to the quote below, this same vet found no problems with her enclosure.

The seller kept saying it was my enclosure that was the problem but the vet and a reptile specialist says otherwise.

 

[AppEcto]

He died two weeks after I got him...

This is proven to be false.

 

[AppEcto]

He had stuck shed on his feet and the coconut oil couldn’t get it off. He lost the toe long before it fell off.

This contradicts "My poor baby lost his toe and I have no idea how"

 

[AppEcto]

My brother and sister both had 75gal tanks they weren’t using and offered to bring them over which they did. One of which is now in my basement and the other being used by my Moroccan.

I first off did have a 20 gal tank and when told it was way too small I bought two 75 gal tanks.

Another contradiction

 

[Keven2]

Thank you for taking the time to retrieve that information and post it all.

 

[AppEcto]

Keven doesn’t have anything else to argue besides the fact I had a 20 gallon tank that was literally never used.

The 20 gallon was literally never used or quickly changed within a week? What happened to two 20 gallon tanks?

 

[Snake-Queen]

A uro in a 20g with 150w che will die from overheating. She basically made a glass oven.

 

[acecurl16]

Kevin -- Thanks for posting those up .. I am obviously the Alan in the FB postings .. I was trying to determine what is anything a vet did for the Uros ... seems strange that one would take them to an exotic vet/specialist who would do an evaluation/exam (determined WC and incorrect ages, dewormed them, administered electrolytes (assume Sub-G fluids), and prescribed antibiotic .. all for free and no paperwork ... but then she couldn't pay for antibiotics which would have been the cheapest part of vet service ... that in addition to the fact as I pointed out in another thread .. Keven got pretty beaten up for lack of vet proof and/or something along those lines .. so seemed only fair to want to see vet proof here too ... neither produced .. all animals treated "off the record" apparently.
There were definitely mistakes made by both, miscommunication, fingers pointed, and false information ... none of this is meant to come across as cold .. I am actually very empathetic and compassionate ... sadly with all the mistakes made by people ... it was the poor critter that ultimately suffered for it!

 

[acecurl16]

Please forgive the grammatical errors in tense and sentence structure

 

[snowgyre]

I think Keven's only real crimes here are that he 1) shipped at unsafe temperatures even if the animals did end up being fine afterwards, and 2) trusting that Tabea was actually going to fix the husbandry issues he discovered.

Tabea clearly did no research on Uromastyx care. Using coconut oil to get a shed off (??? seriously??) and claiming these two animals had "bonded" just shows a level of wanton ignorance that really can't be fixed with any amount of advice.

I think Keven did the best he could once he discovered Tabea had no real desire to care for these animals properly. To me, Keven made mistakes but isn't the bad guy here. Tabea has consistently lied, been combative, and now is trying to throw Keven under the bus presumably because she is aware of his previous problems (which are now resolved in another BOI thread) and thought she could garner sympathy here.

Also, Kevin, thank you for posting all those Facebook screenshots. They really helped shed some light on what really happened here. Tabea, you need to take full responsibility for your mistakes and stop blaming Keven. You were shipped healthy animals that I sincerely doubt were wild caught like you and your supposed vet claims. You killed one animal through poor husbandry. End of story.

 

[elena]

"Everyone told me that uros can't be together but I firmly believe that any animals can coexist."

That has to be one of the most blazingly ignorant statements I've seen in a while. People told her not to do it, but she did it anyway because she has a "belief?" The seller is on the hook for poor shipping practices and not vetting the customer properly, but the animal's death is squarely in the buyer's court. God, this just makes me angry.

Tabea, if you can't see that reptiles are different from beanie babies, that you can't just pose them together and call it "love" or "bonding," do all of us a favor and escort yourself out of the hobby.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Since when did "vetting" the customer become a popular practice? That is absurd. I never bought a pet I didn't do alot of homework on first. This thread is ridiculous. If you don't know how to swim, you don't buy a swimming pool.

 

[Ed Clark]

Not sure I seen a cost of the uros, I would like to know what was paid minus shipping costs.

The op has shown to shy away from the truth and Keven has proven to be a repeated lier in another tread.

 

[Ed Clark]

How do you know if the uro you bought is captive bred or wild caught? I feel like I was lied to. I bought two from the same person.

What did you pay for each uro not including shipping?