Bad Guy SCAMMER!!! Jay Mcnight / Jason Ciconne/ Franklin Chams Chams/SCAMMER

[Craig Wyatt]

For anyone else that would like to watch the Facebook show visit chameleons gone wild group.
Besides this it's a freakin killer group to belong too. So so many cool panthers and other chameleons on there all the time.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I'm sitting here thinking about everything. And I just don't know why Jay is all of a sudden extra extra mad now. Jay just think about. I'm helping get your side of the story out there. I'm using not just your words but your actual voice too. Ya know. GEEZE I think a thank you should be in order. Not just hey that was illegal bla bla bla. So this is a jailable offense me recording you. Why on earth would you even say such a thing. Dude I'm helping you get your side out.
Why are you sooo mad about this phone call I recorded. Did you say something you wished you hadn't? Not good ol honest Jay. NO WAY!!!

 

[Snake-Queen]

Jay, I know you are reading this … your interpretation of the wire tapping law is incorrect, sort of … it also includes phone conversations.

Julia is either in on the scam or you are correct and Jay made her phone oriel today.

 

[Dracorex5]

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I had no reason to doubt Craig from the start.

-He posted significant starting evidence of text convos, and added the entire convo when requested
-He stated that he didn't have the exact photos of the chams, but when asked took the time to find the old ads to retrieve the photos
-Jay NEVER replied to this thread to explain the situation in any way shape or form, and his wife has posted very non-specific "evidence", crummy one sided youtube videos, and photos/vids of a cham that, to be honest.... may not even have MBD.

My experience with chams has been that MBD is an extremely delicate condition. A Cham can appear MBD free and still have it, and not really show until the condition has grown terribly bad. The key is to watch the natural movement of the chameleon in order to identify any inability to balance or properly grip. The videos show the cham on a slippery surface, running in an unnatural manner. I would prefer to see the cham on branches moving naturally to see how the grip and balance is. I just can't tell from the vids.

Even if the cham has MBD (which frankly, happens... and I'm not justifying if Craig didn't notice, I'm just saying it does happen in collections) Craig offered a full refund same-day. That is incredible, and he had NO obligation to without photos, or even a veterinary report. That speaks miles for me.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I had no reason to doubt Craig from the start.

-He posted significant starting evidence of text convos, and added the entire convo when requested
-He stated that he didn't have the exact photos of the chams, but when asked took the time to find the old ads to retrieve the photos
-Jay NEVER replied to this thread to explain the situation in any way shape or form, and his wife has posted very non-specific "evidence", crummy one sided youtube videos, and photos/vids of a cham that, to be honest.... may not even have MBD.

My experience with chams has been that MBD is an extremely delicate condition. A Cham can appear MBD free and still have it, and not really show until the condition has grown terribly bad. The key is to watch the natural movement of the chameleon in order to identify any inability to balance or properly grip. The videos show the cham on a slippery surface, running in an unnatural manner. I would prefer to see the cham on branches moving naturally to see how the grip and balance is. I just can't tell from the vids.

Even if the cham has MBD (which frankly, happens... and I'm not justifying if Craig didn't notice, I'm just saying it does happen in collections) Craig offered a full refund same-day. That is incredible, and he had NO obligation to without photos, or even a veterinary report. That speaks miles for me.

Much appreciated!!

 

[markpulawski]

Craig posted a thread, a day + goes by and Jay only comments on the 10 year Craig threads, if I had evidence even if it took me 2/3 days to post it, I would defend myself. Too many red flags, Jay unless you can post screen shots of writing supporting your claims it will be hard for anyone to believe you. 8 chameleons in 2 boxes, yes that seems right. Jay seems you want to stay I this hobby, send the guy his MBD animals back and square this away.

 

[markpulawski]

oops...in this hobby, also my apologies to Batman, Jay was not the Batman merely a large black rabbit.

 

[Julia.C]

I have no further part in this. I can not answer a question you asked Jay and i will not violate the site rules. When his ban is lifted he can speak for himself. I will say Mr Wyatt your are a snake in the grass and what your doing is uncivil and disrespectful. He will have a vet report Monday or Tuesday regardless i have had to be around him the entire time this ordeal went on i know exactly what you did and how you spoke to him your are and jekyl and Hyde how anyone takes you seriously with what child things you do like calling and recording a conversation. I would like to hear the full conversation you supposedly recorded. You are pure filth

 

[WebSlave]

I have no further part in this. I can not answer a question you asked Jay and i will not violate the site rules. When his ban is lifted he can speak for himself.

The current ban on your husband is for 30 days. If he has not resolved the issue concerning his true identity by that time, the ban will simply be extended indefinitely. However, if the ID issue is resolved sooner, then the ban can be lifted sooner. I have already suggested via PM that you or your husband can contact Harald to get this resolved. Sorry but there are no other options available to either of you if he wishes to participate on this site. Your being a mouth piece for him here will also have to cease if he declines to resolve the ID issue.

 

[Lucille]

I have no further part in this. I can not answer a question you asked Jay

Actually, several questions have been asked of YOU, not Jay. Were you aware Jay was using your credit card?

 

[ElexisC]

I asked several things too, they said they HAD the vet report, why is it now Monday or Tuesday? I asked if they still had the boxes (if they were larger than what we would assume for the shipment to be split between to boxes or to make it look as though the entire order Jay claims was supposed to be there was there or if it's what Craig says, that he split the animals between the boxes). When she posted the photos of the emails, she should have posted the screen shot of the email, then saved the pictures and uploaded those too so they could be clearly seen, that's how I would do it anyways. And as Lucille and I believe several people have asked, does Jay have permission to use your CC? Can you post videos of the chams on a branch and show its movements that way?

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

 

[Mistyck]

This is a huge cluster. Personal issues aside (from everyone in this thread,) this could easily be solved.

Jay; Pay the man his money. Then take the animals to the vet to get checked. If everything checks out, then I'm sure Craig will be more than willing to acquiesce to taking the chams back and giving you the money for the vet visit. If not, then you as a "business" person can chalk this up to a lesson learned and maybe write it off as a business expense. By you with-holding money for product that you purchased, it makes you look like a scammer and a shoddy business person.

Craig; while I can see where you're coming from, please take some advice. Quit opening your mouth and giving them a reason to act like fools. Act professional and stick with straightforward answers/questions. If they (Jay & his wife) do not comply, then check into what laws they have broken, and call a non-emergency police line or an attorney to see what options you have. Do not get down on their level. If you cannot handle yourself in a professional manner on here, then refrain from posting until you can. You will only damage YOUR image further if you do not.

Both parties need to grow up a little bit and learn to use a bit of decorum. If you're both doing this as a "Business" I can guarantee you both that you will not look good to other potential patrons if you do not start acting more mature with your postings and the way you handle yourselves.

As for everyone else who decided to throw a little "Pitch Fit" in this thread, I can understand where you are coming from, but this thread is NOT about you, it is about Craig & Jay. Your drama needs to stay on your own threads or taken to PM's. (No I'm not a Mod, I'm just tired of reading it in every damn thread that everyone comments on. We get it, you don't like each other. Get over it. Bickering back and forth in every thread may help make you feel better, but it irritates everyone else. Yes, that is my personal opinion. Though I do like and appreciate the comments that most of you make, it's getting old reading old news.)

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Stay tuned for the call that I recorded to be verified. I just played it for another fauna member about 10 mins ago. He will be posing what he heard when he gets unbusy. For further verification I will even let one more member hear the recording. I don't want just anyone else to hear it. They must be a respected member hear. There word when they post what they heard must be as good as gold.
** you guys nominate someone And just let me know. (That's if it nessicary) I'm just trying to make my evidence overwhelming.

The person I personally chose to hear fits that title as well. EXTREMELY WELL RESPECTED!!

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

That's a fantastic idea!!!! I'll do it. Already know who I'm going to call. This person has posted a couple times already on here. It's getting late so this is on my to do list for tomorrow.

I received a phone call today from Craig, wanting me to hear a recorded conversation between him & Jay.

It started with, and ended with, Craig asking Jay about his comment about the 8 ambilobi chameleons, he erupted with "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT", again, and again, Craig asked 3 or 4 times about the 8 chameleons, and why would he make that up? again, Jay responded with, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I NEVER SAID THAT", Jay repeated that the 3 or 4 times he was asked.

The recording is, what it is, Craig asking Jay about the imaginary 8 chameleons, and Jay responding I don't know what you're talking about, and I never said that.

Again Craig, I hope this all works out for you, and you get what you're owed!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[tlmoon]

I very much agree with Mistyck.

I'm surprised the MBD issue hasn't been more thoroughly discussed. This seems to be the crux of the entire mess: All was well until Jay apparently opened the box and found MBD. If the MBD is a lie, then that would expose Jay as a scammer who is using MBD as a way to steal money back from Craig. If it's true, then it raises a concern about Craig selling chams with MBD and makes Jay's actions somewhat more reasonable.

Yet there has been scant mention of this.

Craig - I have not seen you state definitively anywhere that there is no MBD. You've made a few vague comments about "not claiming or denying" the animals. To me that is fuzzy. Do you have MBD in your chams or not? It seems to me a cham seller would react very strongly to an allegation of sending sick animals. It was also unclear if you had pics of the animals or not. In your favor, you offered an immediate refund and you do not appear to be in any way scammer to me. But I would like to hear from you about the MBD. Perhaps in all the excitement you've overlooked this part of the issue?

Jay, if the animals have MBD why did you not accept Craig's offer of a refund? You don't get to keep the animals AND the money. I also wonder why there isn't clear proof of the MBD. The first thing a rational person would do is make very clear video or picture evidence of the MBD. Your initial communication to Craig wasn't a question or a concern, but an immediate accusation of him scamming you. It's a bit off. Honestly, it makes it look like you planned all along to get the animals, claim MBD, and scam the money back. A reasonable person would send pics back the seller and have a dialogue about the condition of the animals. And would take the seller's offer of a refund and send the animals back. Why would you immediately think he was scamming you and go on the offensive?

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Jason Ciccone aka Jay McKnight aka Jay Sick I have a winning proposition to present to you. We both have a mutual friend that is not taking sides. You know exactly who I'm talking about. Give him my animals to send to me. But before he sends them and I know they are in his possession I will call PayPal and end the dispute allowing the money to go back into Your account. At that point I will confirm what I did with the 3rd party and at that point he can ship back to me.
*** that's if he is willing to play the 3rd party.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

This is a huge cluster. Personal issues aside (from everyone in this thread,) this could easily be solved.

Jay; Pay the man his money. Then take the animals to the vet to get checked. If everything checks out, then I'm sure Craig will be more than willing to acquiesce to taking the chams back and giving you the money for the vet visit. If not, then you as a "business" person can chalk this up to a lesson learned and maybe write it off as a business expense. By you with-holding money for product that you purchased, it makes you look like a scammer and a shoddy business person.

Craig; while I can see where you're coming from, please take some advice. Quit opening your mouth and giving them a reason to act like fools. Act professional and stick with straightforward answers/questions. If they (Jay & his wife) do not comply, then check into what laws they have broken, and call a non-emergency police line or an attorney to see what options you have. Do not get down on their level. If you cannot handle yourself in a professional manner on here, then refrain from posting until you can. You will only damage YOUR image further if you do not.

Both parties need to grow up a little bit and learn to use a bit of decorum. If you're both doing this as a "Business" I can guarantee you both that you will not look good to other potential patrons if you do not start acting more mature with your postings and the way you handle yourselves.

As for everyone else who decided to throw a little "Pitch Fit" in this thread, I can understand where you are coming from, but this thread is NOT about you, it is about Craig & Jay. Your drama needs to stay on your own threads or taken to PM's. (No I'm not a Mod, I'm just tired of reading it in every damn thread that everyone comments on. We get it, you don't like each other. Get over it. Bickering back and forth in every thread may help make you feel better, but it irritates everyone else. Yes, that is my personal opinion. Though I do like and appreciate the comments that most of you make, it's getting old reading old news.)

Brandi. I here ya loud and clear. And you make some really good points in your post. This whole situation has be very flustered. I am handling this the best way I can. Flip the table and put you in my shoes. Just imagine this exact thing is happening to you. I promise you will be flustered too and you might handle yourself a little differently than you think you would. Have you ever been in a bad relationship where all your friends are saying just leave him. But you just can't because of whatever. Then you see one of your friends in the same situation and you say the same thing to her. It's easy for an outside party to say settle down but when your in the hot seat things are a bit different.
I am doing my best I promise you. So to all my customers and potential customers I hope this doesn't effect new business. I am a man of my word. If nothing else comes from this atleast you guys know I stand 10 foot tall behind what I sell. If there is a problem I always fix it. No matter if even the customer is at fault in my eyes. Doesn't matter. If you buy from me it's a no loose type of situation. Is say 95% of my sales are perfect and if I screw up I'll always always fix it. And I'll admit my fault and oppologize. I even opologize if it's not my fault.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I very much agree with Mistyck.

I'm surprised the MBD issue hasn't been more thoroughly discussed. This seems to be the crux of the entire mess: All was well until Jay apparently opened the box and found MBD. If the MBD is a lie, then that would expose Jay as a scammer who is using MBD as a way to steal money back from Craig. If it's true, then it raises a concern about Craig selling chams with MBD and makes Jay's actions somewhat more reasonable.

Yet there has been scant mention of this.

Craig - I have not seen you state definitively anywhere that there is no MBD. You've made a few vague comments about "not claiming or denying" the animals. To me that is fuzzy. Do you have MBD in your chams or not? It seems to me a cham seller would react very strongly to an allegation of sending sick animals. It was also unclear if you had pics of the animals or not. In your favor, you offered an immediate refund and you do not appear to be in any way scammer to me. But I would like to hear from you about the MBD. Perhaps in all the excitement you've overlooked this part of the issue?

Jay, if the animals have MBD why did you not accept Craig's offer of a refund? You don't get to keep the animals AND the money. I also wonder why there isn't clear proof of the MBD. The first thing a rational person would do is make very clear video or picture evidence of the MBD. Your initial communication to Craig wasn't a question or a concern, but an immediate accusation of him scamming you. It's a bit off. Honestly, it makes it look like you planned all along to get the animals, claim MBD, and scam the money back. A reasonable person would send pics back the seller and have a dialogue about the condition of the animals. And would take the seller's offer of a refund and send the animals back. Why would you immediately think he was scamming you and go on the offensive?

All I can attest to is I sent out good animals. I have a medium sized collection and this is not a problem of mine. I have unknowingly bought a handful of panthers that have had MBD in the past. It is not contagious what so ever. I have given every single animal that I acquired this way to either a local rescue or a good home for free locally.
You guys can clearly see the 3 animals I posted that Jay got. Those were new photos at the time. Out of the tamatave group I'm only missing 1 picture. I have heard zero talk about the other 4 ambilobis being messed up in any kind of way.
Go back and look at those 3 pictures. I know it's not a video so you can't see them moving but a chameleon expert can sometimes look at just a pic and identify MBD instantly. Id give anything t have my own video of them walking around in there cages prior to the sell but it's something that I just don't do. Maybe someone is getting ready to suggest that I do that from now on but before you do ask yourself is this something that you do or do you even know one single person that does this.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I let him know by text about the proposition. Since I'm trying to keep out the 3rd parties name you will not see me texting it. This is only because I'm sharing every text here. This 3rd party is one of the most respected people in the chameleon world. And he happens to be my friend and Jays friend. I know for a fact he will not screw either of us. And Jay knows this too. It's just extremely lucky we share this exact friend.
PLEASE JAY. Let's just end this. Everyone walks away whole.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

One thing I missed and I have no clue how I did. In the initial phone the day he received them he said he was a herpotologist and his roommate is a vet. And that is how he verified the MBD.
In the phone conversation we had several days ago he said just wait. I'm getting ready to post the vet report. He also said the same thing on Facebook days ago. He was talking like he was getting ready to post them.

Julia please enlighten me on this matter. Tell me about your roommate that's a vet. And also tell me why we now have to wait until Monday. This report is something you have claimed to have for a while now. Why do you have to wait until Monday. And why didn't Jay post it on Facebook when he said he was going to.