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Bad Guy SCAMMER!!! Jay Mcnight / Jason Ciconne/ Franklin Chams Chams/SCAMMER

post the messages
you say you got or this is all just none sense your making up i have pics and bloodlines going back along way chief i have no idea what your saying my fb has all the pics of my babies. Regardless you are caught in your lies your have been proven wrong you are alier and a scammer
 
What? Dude I didn't just come to the realization that you havnt produced a single egg. So what now your a breeder?
 
In the thread he just posted against me he said he had 8 animals and 5 died. Leaving him with 3.
Well in another one of his stories he said he recieved 2 boxes from me. One was empty and the other only had 4 in it. (I did send 2 boxes. 4 animals in each)
Well well. This giant cob web of lies you have created is getting hard to keep track of.
Also Jay why are you not making a bid deal about tha fake money order story. If someone got me for $1050 I wouldn't forget it.
 
Craig Wyatt said:
In the thread he just posted against me he said he had 8 animals and 5 died. Leaving him with 3.
Well in another one of his stories he said he recieved 2 boxes from me. One was empty and the other only had 4 in it. (I did send 2 boxes. 4 animals in each)
Well well. This giant cob web of lies you have created is getting hard to keep track of.
Also Jay why are you not making a bid deal about tha fake money order story. If someone got me for $1050 I wouldn't forget it.
Click to expand...

one thing at a time craig
 
Next explain why in your video you say you only got 4 animals and not the 8 I sent you. I'll refresh that lie in your head for you. You said I sent you 2 boxes (which I did send 2 boxes) and one box was empty and the other only had 4 animals in them.
Now you say you had 8 and 5 died.
Jay please explain this. It's all so very confusing. Help me make since of it.
 
Craig Wyatt said:
Next explain why in your video you say you only got 4 animals and not the 8 I sent you. I'll refresh that lie in your head for you. You said I sent you 2 boxes (which I did send 2 boxes) and one box was empty and the other only had 4 animals in them.
Now you say you had 8 and 5 died.
Jay please explain this. It's all so very confusing. Help me make since of it.
Click to expand...


its not my fault you do not have the mental capacity to keep up what you just said is a lie who ever watches the video will see that
 
Funny you won't answer my question. Atleast answer it with another lie. You are a real professional at dodging hard questions.
In your own video you claimed to only have received 4 animals from me in total. Now you changed your story to a half truth.
True-you did receive 8 animals.
Bold face lie- 5 died and you have 3 left.
Likely- all 8 are very much alive but you sold them all.
But just for the heck of it I'll call your bluff about the 3. Post pictures of them all with a either a newspaper with today's date. Or write today's date on a peice of paper.

But first quit dodging the question about the 4 then now 8 panthers.
 
Why didn't the vet x-ray the animals?? Technically a visual examination isn't an acceptable method to diagnose "MBD". For example in a number of reptiles aberrant thermal fluctuations in the egg result in deformations that could be visually mistaken for "MBD" but on x-ray that option is clearly ruled out.

Why didn't the vet provide a treatment program for the animals? You do realize that an unfit for sale letter isn't valid for reptiles, right? It is only valid with respect to a dog or a cat. see https://www.animallaw.info/statute/nj-pet-sales-pet-purchase-protection-act#s93
specifically
“Animal” means a cat or dog.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that your vet would be willing to put their name on a certificate for an animal that is not covered by that law, they should have known that this was not an acceptable letter by the definition of the law ...

some comments

Ed
 
Jay I can see your lurking right now. Can you please address my last post
 

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Give me a break. Those letters could not possibly be real. Where is the DATED invoice for treatment / exams on those chams?

A vet would never write such unprofessional "exam" letters, let alone two with a recommendation for refund and an "unfit for sale". Nor would a vet document the name of a seller in such bogus public records.

The name Jay Sick suits you well, as you seem to be just that.
 
LauraB said:
Give me a break. Those letters could not possibly be real. Where is the DATED invoice for treatment / exams on those chams?

A vet would never write such unprofessional "exam" letters, let alone two with a recommendation for refund and an "unfit for sale". Nor would a vet document the name of a seller in such bogus public records.

The name Jay Sick suits you well, as you seem to be just that.
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join the club of fools lady when Lucille posts the response from the vet you can join craig in his time out seat in the corner
 
:) Oh, I do so look forward to a response here from your Dr. Stancel, particularly since he is not only a member here, but also has conducted transactions with Nick Anastasiou, a well respected senior member (you know, one of those senior members you wanted on a panel, lol) and respected moderator here.

I sincerely hope Christopher F. Stancel, DVM would not risk his professional reputation, nor that of the Dog, Cat & Bird Clinic of Nutley (not to mention that of his boss!) composing such unprofessional, undated, and obviously biased letters without the benefit of thorough exams of those chams (X-rays, written clinical diagnoses, course of treatment, etc)

Again, where is a dated invoice with actual clinical tests and findings?

LMAO, club of fools.
 
I know it's not as if Jason needs any more help with this, but if no one else linked these threads I figured I would.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588231

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592734

He didn't get his way so first he created a fake account to post a "bad guy" thread under and then created a SECOND "bad guy" thread about Craig in retaliation after that other account was banned. I think he's called every single person who responds to the thread one name or another. Not sure how he thinks this is going to make him seem credible but if it helps him sleep at night.
 
LauraB said:
:) Oh, I do so look forward to a response here from your Dr. Stancel, particularly since he is not only a member here, but also has conducted transactions with Nick Anastasiou, a well respected senior member (you know, one of those senior members you wanted on a panel, lol) and respected moderator here.

I sincerely hope Christopher F. Stancel, DVM would not risk his professional reputation, nor that of the Dog, Cat & Bird Clinic of Nutley (not to mention that of his boss!) composing such unprofessional, undated, and obviously biased letters without the benefit of thorough exams of those chams (X-rays, written clinical diagnoses, course of treatment, etc)

Again, where is a dated invoice with actual clinical tests and findings?

LMAO, club of fools.
Click to expand...

I sent an email to the clinic identified on the letterheads that Jay presented. I received an email back from someone who purports to be Dr. Stancel, who is a member here (DVMExotics).
He defends the conclusion about a refund in his letter by quoting and sent me a link to New Jersey's Pet Purchasing Protection Law. However, when I actually read the law he sent, I found that what he sent refers specifically and only to dogs and cats.
In addition, nowhere does it permit him to use the actual name of a seller in a contested transaction based only on the information given to him by a client to his veterinary clinic.
I hope DVMExotics will appear and shed some light here, because based on the yahoo personal email address I cannot for sure identify that the reply was from Dr. Stancel, and sending an inapplicable law as a defense seems unprofessional to me.
 
Here is my problem with the letters.

1.) Mr. McKnight, or whom ever he wants to be called, already said he had a vet partner. It could be Dr. Stancel.

2.) You can never prove that the chameleons brought to Dr. Stancel are the ones that where shipped by Mr. Wyatt. Period. So even if Mr. McKnight did see the vet, it could be a very different set of chameleons that he saw. They turned out to have MBD. He then placed an order with Mr. Wyatt. The only two people that can prove what they shipped and what they received are not very forthright about it. Mr. McKnight claims everything from a talking chameleon to and wire fraud. Mr. Wyatt does not seem to be able to get his story straight.

3.) Given the above, we have to see how both parties behaved. Mr. Mcknight claimed they had MBD. Mr. Wyatt said shipped them back and get a full refund. Mr. McKnight dragged this out until we are here.

Number 3 is the important one. You see, when you are dealing with animals as a business, you have to split it into two categories. animals and business.

If you receive a sick animal, you can either treat it as a business agreement or an animal agreement.

If you do a business agreement, you don't necessary get to do what is best for the animal. If you treat it as an animal problem, you don't get to treat it as a business agreement.

Mr. McKnight should have shipped the animals back the same day and got his money back if he treated it as a business agreement. MBD makes that animals more or less worthless and as far as I understand is a death sentence. I know it is cold blooded way to look at it, but some times you have to be cold blooded. From an animal prospective, Mr. McKnight could have keep the animals, rejected the refund for the sake of the animals, and wrote up a blistering review of Mr. Wyatt (I would have done this).

But Mr. McKnight decided to take the less legal route and charge back the money, keep the animals, and even try to slander Mr. Wyatts name.

And that is the crux of the problem. From a business stand point. Mr. Wyatt did everything he needed to do. We don't know what happened to the animals or if the animals have MBD. Mr. McKnight refuses to even take pictures of the animals.

So here is where I stand.

Since we can not prove anything about the animals in question. We can not treat this as animal agreement. So the vet report means nothing.

Mr. Wyatt offered full refund. Mr. Mcknight has refused.

I would say at this point everyone needs to avoid having anything to do with Mr. McKnight. I honestly don't think that Mr. Wyatt would ship sick animals and then drag it out like this. Where is the end game in that?

Who in the world ships sick animals, demands them back for a refund, then creates a BOI on the topic?
 
CwnAnnwn said:
Mr. McKnight should have shipped the animals back the same day and got his money back if he treated it as a business agreement. MBD makes that animals more or less worthless and as far as I understand is a death sentence. ?
Click to expand...

The impact on the lifespan of the animal depends on the level of calcium loss in the bones and the underlying cause(s). If the cause is due to kidney failure or it has progressed to the point that the deformations/fractures of the bones prevents feeding then yes it is going to kill the animal. If the "MBD" is caught early enough (an x-ray can help diagnose it) then it may have no impact on the lifespan or quality of life of the animal.

some comments

Ed
 
EdwardK said:
The impact on the lifespan of the animal depends on the level of calcium loss in the bones and the underlying cause(s). If the cause is due to kidney failure or it has progressed to the point that the deformations/fractures of the bones prevents feeding then yes it is going to kill the animal. If the "MBD" is caught early enough (an x-ray can help diagnose it) then it may have no impact on the lifespan or quality of life of the animal.

some comments

Ed
Click to expand...

I clearly don't know anything about chameleons. Thank you for the information. Follow up question. If they have it, they will never fully recover? Once the bones are bent they are like that forever?

If so, it would reduce the selling price of the animal correct?
 
Deformations of the bones are going to be permanent (well without reconstructive surgery) but that assumes that the "MBD" has progressed to the point that deformation is obvious. There are stages in disruptions of calcium metabolism that occur before this kind of damage becomes apparent and at those stages if corrected there tends to be a complete recovery this is because the loss of calcium is incremental and in early stages reversible. This is part of a reason that an x-ray is typically taken in animals suspected of "MBD" as the level of calcium loss, and the presence and location of fractures are often considered necessary for an evaluation, and treatment of the animals.

If calcium loss from the bones is advanced enough you can have deformation of the bones that control the mouth and/or tongue which prevents the animal from eating and swallowing properly. An x-ray can document these deformation allowing a decision made for whether the animal will recover or not. In the case there is deformation of the bones that control the function of the mouth, force feeding can result in aspiration pneumonia from food particles inhaled during the process.

So if visible deformations are present that could be the result of "MBD" the value of the animals is reduced in no small part that without a comprehensive workup you have no idea of how significantly affected the animal is from the issue (consider for example if kidney disease caused it ...)

Now these issues aren't relegated solely to chameleons but pretty much all reptiles and amphibians.

some comments

Ed
 
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