Info Seeking Advice on Dan Scolardo

[Uroboros]

You're telling me if you pay for overnight shipping and it takes 48 hours to get there...you're unable to file a claim with FedEx? Then what did you pay for insurance for? (I should point out I don't ship with FedEx)

This doesn't make sense now. Are you telling me Seamus' logic is faulty? Is it possible that Seamus is dare I say...wrong??! Now I'm really worried.

If you paid for overnight shipping and it took them 48 hours to ship it, they will refund you for some of the shipping costs, not the cost of the contents of the package, whatever it might be.

FedEx does not, under any circumstances, insure live packages.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

If you paid for overnight shipping and it took them 48 hours to ship it, they will refund you for some of the shipping costs, not the cost of the contents of the package, whatever it might be.

FedEx does not, under any circumstances, insure live packages.

Erik, is that always true? Maybe i am mistaken, but i could have sworn that stories have popped up about refunds not being issued because of the waiver signed?

Again, i could be mistaken. Thanks.

 

[Uroboros]

Erik, is that always true? Maybe i am mistaken, but i could have sworn that stories have popped up about refunds not being issued because of the waiver signed?

Again, i could be mistaken. Thanks.

Shipping costs alone is what they will take responsibility for, you might have to make a stink to get it. I don't know if a Ming Dynasty vase gets covered, but I know that they do not cover live animals.

 

[NeoReptiliac]

Right. Why is Dan responsible for this? The fact that you suggested Dan planned for the animal to be dead in your care is ludicrous. This is a chance you take when buying WC from anyone [and even Dan]. Dan is no more fit to tell a caiman is in poor shape than you are, and this is why your argument holds no water.

For one he didnt say it was wild caught when I bought it. Secondly, if he had it in his care and it refussed to eat but he lied to me and told me it was eating then well he would know something was wrong and would be hiding it.

 

[NeoReptiliac]

There was a few things about shipping that I would like to cover since everyone is on the subject. Dan did not sign a waver according to the Fedex manager I spoke too. He didnt even let them know he had a reptile in the box.

Also he told us that the caiman was not wc. If what he said was true then that would mean it was in either his care or someone else's all of its life. From what I understood he told me his "Supplier" is where he got his batch of caimans from.
And he told us he was keeping them in his bed room in a plastic container and was feeding them bait store fish. (shiners) If none was eating then he said he would put them in a shoe box with a couple fish and check on them the next day. Which leads me to believe he knew that some of them were not eating. And a plastic container is not a suitable way to keep a bunch of caimans over the 1ft length as well. It makes me wonder just how he was keeping them in his care. He even had the audacity to tell us to put our caiman in a 10 gallon aquarium. The caiman we got was longer then a 10 gallon aquarium. What does that really say for his husbandry?

One other thing I would like to mention that I think I forgot and left out was. When we told him it had died after not eating the whole time we had it. He told us he would work something out for another one cause he had soooo many, then changed his mind and tried to charge us for another caiman. When we told him we wouldn't pay for another he said he wouldn't give us another but would try to earn some credit with his supplier to get another for us then he quit sending emails. If he had so many then why would he have to work out something with his "supplier".

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Whether Dan

signed a waiver or not is no longer relevant here.. What is relevant is that the shipment arrived when it was supposed to. This would let FedEx off the hook. Insurance no insurance, FedEx has learned from very good experience about paying out for loss of life in animal disputes.. This is a no brainer.

Secondly, whether it was wild caught, is nothing more then a conjecture on your part. Let us assume that Dan lied ! I think had you approached the difficulty of the death of the Caiman without the intimidation tactics, something could have been worked out..

But then again I have no way of knowing if in fact it was w.c. or c.b. What I do know is the only proof that you provided in your email... That I know is accurate... I also know that FedEx delivered on time, that I know also is accurate.. I also know that the Caiman was in your possession for 4 days before it passed on. I also know that you left that email information out of your discussion on this thread before I brought it up to the group... That little piece of information is very accurate..

With regard to this business of Live Delivery Guaranteed. Regardless of what the guarantee is or is not, unless you are willing to litigate the matter, Dan has fulfilled his obligation.. This could apply to anyone in this business... You dont have to accept the loss!
You have every right to pursue it legally if you feel you have been wronged...

There is no sense any longer in reading into these things.. Everyone can use whatever terms they desire to promote a transaction.. Whether one wants to extend the life of the Live Delivery Guarantee, is entirely up to the shipper or between both parties..... In many instances, people are looking to sell because they no longer want the animal.. So they will make the terms enticing. But dont be fooled, because , if a problem occurs on a once in while transaction, regardless of what was stated, you will have to make a decision to either pay more to fight it in court or to call it a day and move on....

The latter is what I suggest . Personally, I think you screwed up, and instead of using reason, you became to emotionally wrapped up and in the end , you did NOT do yourself a favor with that approach....

 

[KNOBTAIL]

One other note:

Shippers, such as UPS, USPS, FedEx, and probably other lesser known shippers, are not in business to loose money when it comes to perishables.. They know all to well about claims. So they will NOT assume any resposibility for any loss short of the plane blowing up, and even there if you dont have a value of proof on what the animal is worth, you may not even be able to collect on that !

PayPal has no desire to get involved either. Basically because they also learned about claims.. Honest, dishonest, claims where people want there money back... The only recourse there would be to notify your issuing card company and try to get the amount charged back... Some banks may accommodate, and some may not.. The charge back goes against PayPal, and when you join PayPal, there is a waiver that you agree to that legally obligates you to give up your rights in a dispute and abide by PayPals decision making process for complaints.... Now some banks do and some banks dont.. Its arbitrary, and sometimes the bank may refuse to get involved, as would PayPal, and then your only recourse is with the seller if you are on the buying end of the deal....

These mechanics are there for a reason.. These are there TOS, just like you have your TOS.. Like it or not, if you receive written information on how the sale will be consummated. It is binding once you agree to it... Yes there may be extenuating circumstances, and yes some people have had there money refunded with an enormous sigh of relief...... I am sure they will be more careful in the future.....

I dont believe that Dan is pleased about this with all the other difficultes he has had on this board, but even if the blame were to be split 50/50 The answer is not to open a Pandora box by creating problems with the carrier or PayPal to the extent this person has .... It ends up being bad for everyone, and to be quite honest, we really cannot afford to loose carriers or to allow PayPal to cut off live material suppliers.. Businesses rely on both services so unless the TOS are stated clearly before the shipment is sent and the buyer understands the risk factor with this order, he better know what he is doing !

 

[NeoReptiliac]

Well I have not been posting just to hear myself type. Anything Ive said was asked of me to answer. Also I havent said Im trying to tear down the walls of Fedex or Paypal. Ive not attacked them ever. And plenty of times Ive said this was all settled and done with, that there was no need to continue this thread but things keep getting brought up and I keep getting told there is something in the thread I need to comment on. As far as Im concerned its now out of my hands and the FWC is taking care of it. They are keeping me informed on what is going on. I was told today they are suppose to be having a meeting to discuss what has been found on their behalf. I'm glad that they are investigating him. If he has nothing to hide then there will be no problem for him I suppose. But something tells me that he wont be that lucky. From what all Ive heard he has done this many times to other people and some times he was much worse in most cases. To be honest I hope he gets shut down. Not cause I want revenge or anything but cause I dont want him to continue doing things like this to other people. And just to be clear I never once tried to get anything out of him by using threat tactics. Thats just ludicris.

 

[Shadera]

Shipping costs alone is what they will take responsibility for, you might have to make a stink to get it. I don't know if a Ming Dynasty vase gets covered, but I know that they do not cover live animals.

And they're getting tougher to strangle those refunds out of by the day. The new excuse is "inclement weather" which gets them off the hook even if it's sunny and perfect where the delivery was.

 

[rosebud945]

Just to be fair, Jerry, go back and re read the OPs original post carefully. He did not think to contact authorities until it was suggested to him in this thread. His first inclination was to try to get a refund, and we can reasonably attribute that hope to his naivety about Dan's particular TOS. I have been in this thread from the beginning, and he came off to me as someone seeking advice in the first few pages, not someone hell bent on dragging every agency or party involved into the issue. If you find evidence to the contrary in that post, please show us.

We can't know who is to blame for the caiman's death with complete certainly. We can only guess based on what the OP has described as his husbandry, what we know of Dan's reputation, and what many have speculated about it. Beyond that, it is up to the individual who reads this thread and has to decide for his or herself if s/he wants to take a chance and buy from Dan. I think that even if he isn't legally bound, and might not be morally bound in some people's eyes to settle amicably with the OP, then discussing his general reputation here, that of a bad guy, is still valid. JMHO.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Rosebud, I dont have

a problem with your assessment. However, He did not think to contact authorities until it was suggested to him in this thread. His first inclination was to try to get a refund, and we can reasonably attribute that hope to his naivety about Dan's particular TOS What possible reason would there be to contact authorities. Who would this benefit ? This is not always the answer..

We have enough problems in this industry with attracting the worst kind, so any additional fueling would benefit no one ! Secondly, I disagree about your position "Dans particular TOS" I think you will find it to be more than justified in relation to allot of other TOS from many many people selling herps...

There is nothing particularly disturbing that should warrant a greater risk factor then dealing with anyone else.... Yes I will grant you this much.. Had the buyer searched this site, he would have or should have had second thoughts... He the buyer did not do his homework.... I am certainly not trying to make excuses for Dan, but I think there is plenty of blame to go around here....


We can't know who is to blame for the caiman's death with complete certainly. We can only guess based on what the OP has described as his husbandry, what we know of Dan's reputation, and what many have speculated about it. Beyond that, it is up to the individual who reads this thread and has to decide for his or herself if s/he wants to take a chance and buy from Dan. I think that even if he isn't legally bound, and might not be morally bound in some people's eyes to settle amicably with the OP, then discussing his general reputation here, that of a bad guy, is still valid.


You are correct in not putting the blame on Dan exclusively, and I concur that we do not know with certainty that the fault lies with anyone particular person. but if you want to use the criteria of Dans past performance as a guide, then , yes we do have a problem, and just as the boy who cried wolf, when Dan may have been totally justified in his actions, because of prior behaviors, he would be considered guilty of this as well !



It is more then likely that whatever agencies will investigate, Dan has permits from what I understand from previous threads , so I think it will end up as another complaint with a happy ending and Dan will continue to sell and advertise his herps... What the buyer may have to concern himself with is legal remedy from Dan. This is just conjecture on my part, but not out of the realm of possibilities for causing a business harm....

Meanwhile to get back to your original statement about the buyer receiving some insight into what to do, the remedy provided, just exasperated the situation by making it worst... Thats my opinion...

 

[brrrman]

Phillip,
I know Spectacled Caimans have established in extreme Southern Florida, (Dade Co.) but I seriously doubt Smooth Front's have, (which is what specie Dan sent) as they are found a lot farther south than Spectacled's normal range.

However, keeping ANY caiman, healthy or not in 90 degree temps will kill it.
This has been admitted? Correct? If this IS the case, then the animal WAS grossly abused.

Your quote:
"Which is why I never buy from him ,or anyone else who only guarantees live arrival only."

Just curious, what sort of terms do you require when you buy animals who guarantee's live arrival only? A guarantee that it has to live a certain period of time in YOUR care BEFORE you agree to buy it? Again, just curious, because I would like to know who the seller is, and buy animals on my conditions which, you seem to imply

I believe the seller stated the caiman was left out to burn in the sun not the buyer. Which is what Dan does everytime one of his animals dies an early death.
The seller states it was housed on a porch where it was cooler 75 to 90 are considered optimal.

Not to advertise but to mention a few quality vendors, Pro exotics 2 days after arrival,
LLL 3 days after arrival, Ben seigal 7 days after arrival, eric lago 3 days after arrival. I have and will also buy from Ken foose who only guarantees live arrival does not hide behind it. Along with many local friends and breeders I can be picky as to whom I buy from. I have eyed a few things that Dan has had, even E-mailed him once or twice but luckilly common sense prevailed and I opted out, Or I might have gotten a lovely response such as this.

Thanks for posting my side of the issue caiman killer.

Next time don't keep a baby caiman outside in 95 degree temps and keep it inside so no wild animals can get to it and harm it. It was a nice touch that you added those facts to the thread so now folks can clearly decipher that you killed your caiman and are surely not entitled to any extension of the guarantee. Where did you get your GED or is that still a goal? And how many times did you drop the caiman on its head? Who knows what you did to kill that healthy and beautiful animal.

I got a good idea to lift what people think of you by now. Why not post your email about how happy you were to receive such a healthy appearing animal and how you were going to post a good boy thread about it? You are not kidding anyone. I know who you are and what you are all about and knew it long ago and find your tactic comical and a joy to teach you a good lesson. For all I know that caiman is still alive and you are just another scammer I flushed.

Why not blither some nonsense and/or some idiotic explanation as to why you have or feel justified to even blither any request for an extension of the guarantee beyond the terms of sale? You saw that other fellows post about the terms being met so you have nothing to blither about. Why not make some smart response to that? You have not and can not. That's because you are not entitled to any extension. And no one but some jerks I proved to be idiots before will support your stupid complaint. How about post the fact that I offered to get you another for 95 dollars and would ship it and you turned down that extension. Or post the fact that I said I would pursue credits with the supplier and get back in a bit. Sad to say that your idiotic and bogus complaint to paypal did not work huh? It did not work because you are a scammer, nothing more, but perhaps much less.

And stop killing your pets as that might haunt your conscious for a long while.

Dan

This is typical Dan never his fault everyone he sells to is a scammer, reptile killer.

 

[rosebud945]

I have bought from Eric lago, and a few other vendors who offer 3 day to TWO WEEK guarantees on their animals, and guess what? Those were all VERY healthy animals. Vendors who know that they are keeping and selling healthy animals can do that. I have also mistakenly bought from people with only a live arrival guarantee, and those animals tended to range from so so condition to critical or dead! My years of experience as a rehabber allowed me to assess them almost immediately, but that is just not possible for people who have little to know experience with health issues in reptiles, and might even be first time reptile buyers! I will not buy from someone who only offers live arrival again.

As a breeder, I will offer something of an extended guarantee, because I can take that gamble knowing that my animals are healthy and I will do as my buddy Tim Caglarcan does and send out a printed care sheet with the animal. Granted, I don't plan to make my living selling my cb lizards, but if I am in the business of selling something as fragile as living things and place value on customer confidence and my reputation, I am going to expect some losses along the way. Those losses will, in part, include being out the cost of an animal here or there, if carriers mishandle the box, the death of an animal is not clear cut, or the death or poor condition of the animal is the result of a problem that I obviously overlooked. That does not mean that I will take responsibility for a customer's poor husbandry, but again, I will attempt to educate the buyer as best as I can before the sale. Beyond this, I would hope that the BOI will help me settle disputes.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Well at least there is room

for accepting a variety of TOS on a Live Delivery Guarantee... And as you said, and as I have been saying all along, if you want to minimize your risk level, do your homework ! Find out what the terms are, understand whom you are dealing with and attempt to limit your liability as much as possible..

Sometimes its very difficult to make an intelligent decision and you have to go by your own intuition.. But the risk factor will always be there and in the end regardless of how careful you may be in making a wise choice in a non seeing purchase, things can backfire, and not be in your favor..



Hopefully this will put an end to this thread..

 

[Southern Wolf]

If you paid for overnight shipping and it took them 48 hours to ship it, they will refund you for some of the shipping costs, not the cost of the contents of the package, whatever it might be.

FedEx does not, under any circumstances, insure live packages.

Erik, is that always true? Maybe i am mistaken, but i could have sworn that stories have popped up about refunds not being issued because of the waiver signed?

Again, i could be mistaken. Thanks.

Shipping costs alone is what they will take responsibility for, you might have to make a stink to get it. I don't know if a Ming Dynasty vase gets covered, but I know that they do not cover live animals.

This also goes towards what kind of Account Rep you have. Mine is VERY helpful. Lets just say that last year they screwed up and I ended up getting my animals a day late. They arrived fine. I had talked to several people in the biz about this the night prior to them arriving and they asked me not to make a huge stink with Fed Ex (cause quite frankly I was off). I then decided to take the next day off so I could be at home when the driver showed up (it was his screwup). While I was waiting for my package my Account Rep actually called me to check in and see how things were going. I figured since she asked... I would tell her. I asked that nothing be done on thier end as far as the driver... because when I get done.. he will feel about 2 inches tall. She told me she would look into it and see if she could help. I contacted the seller once they arrived and told him they were OK and what my rep had said.

Lets just say... if you have a good rep... your golden.

 

[rin0425]

As far as TOS goes, I have dealt with both ends, from live arrival only to 14 days...and from now on, I am only working with good people who have extended guarantees. I see live arrival only as a cop out. If you have healthy animals and do a little work with your sellers on ensuring they will be FIT OWNERS, then I think one should stand by the product. Yes things can happen, but honest good people will work with you. I had a dragon die in shipping and not only did the seller get me a new dragon the next day, he sent me an additional one free and ate the shipping. He even checks in regularly to see how they are doing. This biz is filled with people who are only in it for money, and a good way to see who they are are people who dont guarantee their animals. Just my opinion, and maybe im the naieve one, but I can say I will stand by the health of my animals for sure, even a few days down the road.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Aaron... here is the thing though. How many times have you seen someone here on the BOI trying to get over on someone. Yes, I agree in a perfect world that everyone should offer a 14 day (or whatever guarantee).

HOWEVER... lets say that you only have a live arrival guarantee in your TOS. A customer calls you up 2 days after delivery with a dead animal. You talk to them... and its obvious they know what they are doing. If you have any kind of ethics... then you would offer them what they have coming. (replacement/refund/etc).

Now lets say that another customer calls up 2days later with a dead animal... and he put a cornsnake in a 10 gal tank with a 150W spot light that goes on the outside of the house because that is what he had available for a heat source.... and he basically cooked his snake. It wasnt a health issue with your snake... it was poor husbandry on the customers part. You now have your TOS to protect you.

When I set up my TOS I basically tried to think like a scammer and fill in all the loopholes. Let me tell ya... that was a ride I hope I never have to take again. Although I must say... I did use some of what I have seen here to help.

Just a thought.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

The object in any TOS

is to limit ones liability.. It as is the case in other industries, slanted toward the sellers.. Its actually a sellers agreement to consummate a sale..

The problem as we all know is that for sight unseen purchases, allot is based on good faith.. With that in mind, there are those making a ONE TIME SALE, and they are out once payment is received and the animal sent.. For others it could be the beginning of a relationship, but in this business, there is no loyalty.. Just the best price.. So the TOS will reflect that. Live Delivery Guaranteed !

With individuals selling, they may not have a replacement and have no desire to extend there warranty to nothing other than delivery on time... The will not guarantee the health of the animal for any carrier delay, nor beyond a 24 hour period of receipt... Just as long as its noted, and the buyer is aware, the risk factor gets greater, but the price may be an inducement to make the sale...

Its a choice that should be thought out carefully, as the seller cannot replace , nor want to get involved beyond the sale itself... For others, sellers may be looking for repeat business and pride themselves on extending there warranty for possibly 7 days... The length of time is usually corrolated with a replacement at a later date... Thats the hook.. That to me is less honorable then just guarantee's for a live delivery...

The bottom line is that regardless of which avenue you decide to take as a buyer, a TOS should be considered an essential part of the transaction that can only benefit the seller.. Nothing wrong with that !

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

The bottom line is that regardless of which avenue you decide to take as a buyer, a TOS should be considered an essential part of the transaction that can only benefit the seller.. Nothing wrong with that !

I was in total agreement with you Jerry till the section quoted above. Terms of Service from a reputable seller who has confidence in the animals he is selling should be of benefit to both seller and buyer. Maybe not equally but the type of TOS that benefits only the buyer (i.e Live Arrival Only, Not responsible for carrier error) is usually the reasson i don't even consiider dealing with someone.

My TOS does protect me to some extent but it also protects the buyer. On captive bred, i find that most of the reputable dealers have TOS that offer some level of extended guarantee and unconditional live arrival as long as someone is there to sign for the animals. I have yet to figure out the logic in "Carrier Error" being somehow the buyers responsibility.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

As with any TOS in any industry,

especially real estate, auto, and so many others, businesses spend a fortune to insure that the sellers terms are as air tight as one can make... We certainly just have to look at the back side of a repair form when just having an auto fixed.. Purchasing TOS is even more slanted as banks get involved... so

My last paragraph really should not be a surprise, nor is there anything wrong with it... You always have the option to not buy ! I know there are some businesses now in the herp field who make you sign and fax a waiver in case a credit card is used to prevent chargeback... The form states only credit would be issued, and that even has its limitations... So it all depends on how far you want to go with this TOS..


Regardless of whatever course of action you take, even under the best of circumstances, the risk factor will not be reduced and that burden is on the buyer because once the animals are given to the carrier, the carrier does have insurance to cover for any loss...

Unfortunately, unscrupulous members of this industry have tried, to capitalize from carrier loss .. This also includes PayPal, and we know that they as well as the carriers, no longer will entertain any claims when it comes to our business..

Some level of guarantee, provides nothing ! If something happens at the buyers end, you must have a written set of rules to act as a guidline to see what liability if any resides in your corner.... You cannot make it up as you go along.. That is what causes all the trouble and all the agency notifications, banks, Paypal, carriers, etc. including Fauna... When its clearly written out, understood prior to any monies being sent, the buyer has to assume that they understand the hazards, and are willing to move forward.... That is what my last paragraph relates to ... That becomes the sellers right since he has the animal in question.. If you want to extend your generosity , thats entirely up to you. No problem there... JERRY