Bad Guy shadira(magicmorphs)

[Payara]

IMHO I don't think this thread has any merit...Shadera's BOI and trader rating speaks for itself

And for Payara....Ed Clark's trader rating is nice and high...in fact, the highest I believe. Does that mean he's a stand up guy?

Konstantin, Clark does have an awesome trader rating but his BOI is the complete opposite, with several bad guy threads.

Shadera, on the other hand, has a several positive trader ratings and at least 1 Good guy (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171419&highlight=shadera) so I still stand behind what I said earlier that Shadera's BOI and trader rating speaks for itself and she seems like good person.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Shadera, I get it. Read the emails and they showed great customer service. I understand why you stated you posted in her ads. Don't agree with it, but I understand why you did. She wasted your time but it appears she lied to you from your point of view.

It happens. When it does, just grit your teeth and add them to your don't do business with file. Even if she was dishonest, wasted your time, and agreed to the purchase, etc., no funds changed hands so no transaction. Heck, most of the time they (window shoppers, time wasters, dishonest buyers) don't even email you back after they agree to pay you. Word of mouth gets around and most will not entertain them after time. Regardless of all that, NO it doesn't justify her starting a thread. It was a non-transaction. Your infraction was enough. IMHO


Elizabeth, yes you can do whatever you want. You can agree to purchase, state your going to buy and then back out. Unfortunately, you're not alone in your thinking.

I understand that you state you found a better deal. Let's just assume that is correct. Online all you have is your name. Keeping your word is important. It is wrong to, work out a deal, commit to purchase then back out. Do your shopping around before you commit. Nobody would tell you that you shouldn't find the best deal (for you). When you tell someone your going to purchase and don't, it shows a lack of character. Why would any seller reading this thread want to waste their time taking extra pictures setting up payment plans when they now know you have a history of telling sellers your buying their animals only to later send them a message, "I've found a better deal." Incidentally, most of us are looking at quality of individual stock, not the cheapest of a particular animal we can fine. I hope you are happy with your cheaper deal, honestly.

Regardless of all that, she didn't get upset. She didn't complain about all that ,but she believes you lied to her. It does appear from reading the email exchanges and your ads (plus the one you deleted) that you did back out, told her that you found another, then redid the ad asking for what you canceled on her. Should she have posted in your Ads? No, besides being against the rules here, it really isn't worth her time. She should have let it go, IMO. It was addressed and she received a warning. Threads aren't removed from this forum so she will forever have this here. But, So will you.
Whatever positives you perceived for putting it here, I'm sure the negatives will equal it.
There was no transaction here.
I would let this one drop to the depths of the BOI.

 

[Clay Davenport]

I believe the OP also failed to consider the ramifications of this thread. Shadera received her infraction and I have no doubt would not have posted in another of her ads after that. Once the ads were deleted, the comments would have been gone with them, after which no one would have known about any of this.
Now however, they are permanent. While this thread being frivolous will have zero effect on Shadera, it will make it Elizabeth's actions known publicly from this point on.
Shadera got a little peeved and posted on some ads, what made her peeved in the first place I think in most everyone's opinion is a lot worse than her initial reaction which would be irrelevant to any potential customer of hers.

Buyers backing out is a constant annoyance to sellers. While it's usually just written off as another flake, some that the OP may try to buy from in the future may now take her less seriously and be less likely to be accommodating now that they know there's a possibility it'll be wasted effort.

 

[polasian]

I agree with the last few posts.

Shadera explained her reasoning for posting in the OP's ads (this was also evident in Shadera's follow up emails to the OP). It had NOTHING to do with the OP changing her mind.

Unfortunately, all to often, potential buyers disappear when a transaction is all but cemented. I'm sure Shadera appreciated the OP touching base with her about why the deal wont happen. Not only was Shadera understanding of this...she also went above and beyond by offering the OP helpful, unsolicited advice.

There are many ways in which content received (animal pictures, personal information, etc...) from an "animal for sale" inquiry, can be used in a negative fashion. Shadera (who often helps out scammed individuals on the BOI) is well aware of this and her concerns were valid. Why would someone take the EXTRA effort in being deceiving while explaining why they'll need to back out of the deal? A white lie?... most likely. Something more sinister?...perhaps.

Shadera's ONLY mistake was that she posted her LEGITIMATE inquiry on the OP's ads. She was issued an infraction, and moved on. Starting a BOI inquiry thread, instead, would have been more appropriate. Had Shadera done that, there would currently be NO "bad guy" title next to her name. For anyone who runs across this thread, please take that into account. Shadera is only guilty of momentarily breaking forum decorum, with a handful of ill placed posts. Is she deserving of a "Bad Guy" thread/rep??? Not a chance in hell!

 

[dturner100]

Like it or not I'm going to add my two cents on both sides, and I see both sides as making great points, but ending up in an elementary school brawl on the board of inquiries.

First of all calling what Elizabeth did a lie would be a twist of words. I TOTALLY agree that backing out on a deal ( specially a sweet deal that almost nobody would offer ) that's been discussed in length bad business on the potential buyers part. Running countless emails for a price/deal haggler takes up time that could be used tending to real customers, or doing chores like cleaning cages ( which takes a big part of the day ). BUT... Though this was all a big waste of Shadera's time it's bound to happen. If local retail stores chased window shoppers down the street on the way out of the store pestering them about backing out of deals would that be right? Would it be okay if one store owner followed a person from store to store yelling to other store owners that she backs out of deals it wouldn't be right. It would be wrong, and unprofessional. Which I've seen a lot of Shadera's posts, and some deals, and I've always seen her as one of the more professional good people here. This whole thing is not at all what I'd expect from somebody that should know the business.

This whole thing is making you both, and some other people involved look very bad, and if you're not careful will continue to do so in the future. This thread here will always be searchable.

 

[dturner100]

Also like Dennis mentioned ( posted before I got a chance ): Shadera received an infraction for her posts. There's no way it should have ended up here. It was worthy of a slap on the wrist. Not a BOI bad guy thread. Please be more careful before labeling somebody a bad guy. There may be way more to that person than you understand at the moment. I believe the boi should be well thought out before using.

 

[mvite]

Shadera is most definitely NOT a bad guy.

I've gotten at least 20-25 animals from her---and each one has been fat and healthy---shipped well--and priced well below the market price.

This thread is a waste of cyber space--no transaction took place.

 

[garweft]

Shadera is most definitely NOT a bad guy.

I've gotten at least 20-25 animals from her---and each one has been fat and healthy---shipped well--and priced well below the market price.

This thread is a waste of cyber space--no transaction took place.

If your buying from Shadera your definitely going to be happy. Her animals are well cared for and in great shape. She's very professional, her shipping practices are top notch, and she stands behind her animals.

 

[Ramiro]

Seems to me like the OP has accidentally posted a bad guy thread on herself.

 

[Andy'sReptiles]

Shadera you "Bad Guy" you! and a stalker too, eh?!


*heavy sarcasm*



Waste of time and bandwidth. This thread is a joke.


Am I correct in that Shadera went out of her way, after the OP terminated the original deal, just to offer additional information to a now non-customer?..that says something, and I don't think that something is "bad guy" or anything remotely close.


"Good guy"(gal), no doubt. No doubt in my mind.



Even a "Sorry, changed my mind. I am making a purchase elsewhere" would have sufficed from the OP (though a bit short after the accommodations made by Shadera).

Occasionally there is a time and place to lie.. "why yes, aunt agatha, your sweater is very nice". However, during a business transaction, it is never acceptable.

I have had four different customers back out of a sale due to truck transmissions going out in the last two months..

 

[Archie Bottoms]

If I had a dollar for every backed out of deal I would not need to sell the snake.I see no bad guy here just a little anger that got out of hand.I have been so tempted to attack the thread of a backed out buyer but what is the point.I have even went out of my way to help them find what the really wanted.I have the biggest problem with kids calling and wanting pictures.I sell venomous snakes and am very strict about who I sell to any way.I will talk to the kids on the phone a bit to find out about them .Some times one will say he is 19 then after a few minutes he says he is 15 or 14.I do not get mad I just try to help them decide that a venomous snake is not for them yet.There were a few times I was all set to travel 200 or 300 miles to deliever a snake then as I am on my way out of town they call and say no money.Those irritate me a bit.I SEE NO BAD GUY HERE AT ALL JUST FRUSTRATION.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Yep. I'M the childish one, but you started a bad guy thread over a few posts in ads. Hypocritical much? You do know that these are here forever, while you are able to just delete those ads? I made a few posts telling people what to expect from you, and you don't think that this thread is way beyond childish?

You've got a lot to learn, child. My reputation speaks for itself, as do the animals and the way in which I treat my legitimate customers. If anything, this thread is only showing people why they shouldn't be doing business with you.

Let me say this....

Its called customer service. Yeah... the OP wanted to buy a snake from you... then found a better deal. While I dont completely agree with it... it happens. It happens all the time. Deal with it.

I have been talking via email with someone for 3 days. We have sent several emails back and forth every day. She's asking alot of questions and Im answering them (there have been 5 emails already today) All of this to sell a $40 corn. In the last email she wasnt sure if she wanted it now or to wait till july/aug when she moves. I may or may not get the sale... but either way Im happy. Its called customer service. Even if she doesnt buy now... you can bet your she will remember the time I spent answering all her questions and hopfully come back to me when she is ready to buy.

Here's what Im seeing Magical.... you got upset cause a buyer backed out on you. Let me toss this at you. If I would have had a potential deal with you in the last 3-4 days.... I would have backed out on you too... and then you'd be pissed at me (and possibly stalking my threads as well). I found out yesterday my dog has heartworms... and his health is worth more to me than completing a snake deal. Its gonna take money to treat him... alot of it.

Here is the point I am trying to make... never mark a snake as sold and remove the ads until money is in hand. I had to learn this the hard way as well. Now if someone contacts me via email or PM about a snake.... I will mark it as payment pending and they have 24hrs to complete the deal or it goes right back up for sale. IF someone else is REALLY interested... they will check back in 24hrs to see if it is sold.

Now let me touch on the part I hilighted in Red..... everyone that contacts you is a legitmate customer. If you fail to treat them as such... then it is your own fault for loosing business. Now the real question is this..... is this thread showing folks why they shouldnt do business with YOU?

Why get mad because someone backed out.... roll with the punches and move on. If you took the ad down... learn from the mistakes and do better next time.

 

[kmrkvicka]

Let me say this....

Its called customer service. Yeah... the OP wanted to buy a snake from you... then found a better deal. While I dont completely agree with it... it happens. It happens all the time. Deal with it.

I have been talking via email with someone for 3 days. We have sent several emails back and forth every day. She's asking alot of questions and Im answering them (there have been 5 emails already today) All of this to sell a $40 corn. In the last email she wasnt sure if she wanted it now or to wait till july/aug when she moves. I may or may not get the sale... but either way Im happy. Its called customer service. Even if she doesnt buy now... you can bet your she will remember the time I spent answering all her questions and hopfully come back to me when she is ready to buy.

Here's what Im seeing Magical.... you got upset cause a buyer backed out on you. Let me toss this at you. If I would have had a potential deal with you in the last 3-4 days.... I would have backed out on you too... and then you'd be pissed at me (and possibly stalking my threads as well). I found out yesterday my dog has heartworms... and his health is worth more to me than completing a snake deal. Its gonna take money to treat him... alot of it.

Here is the point I am trying to make... never mark a snake as sold and remove the ads until money is in hand. I had to learn this the hard way as well. Now if someone contacts me via email or PM about a snake.... I will mark it as payment pending and they have 24hrs to complete the deal or it goes right back up for sale. IF someone else is REALLY interested... they will check back in 24hrs to see if it is sold.

Now let me touch on the part I hilighted in Red..... everyone that contacts you is a legitmate customer. If you fail to treat them as such... then it is your own fault for loosing business. Now the real question is this..... is this thread showing folks why they shouldnt do business with YOU?

Why get mad because someone backed out.... roll with the punches and move on. If you took the ad down... learn from the mistakes and do better next time.

If you'd taken the time to read the email exchanges, you'd have seen that she never in fact had an ad up for this particular snake, so no money was actually lost. that wasn't her problem with the deal. Her problem was that the person lied about WHY she wasn't getting the snake

 

[Southern Wolf]

So no money was lost because she hadn't planned on selling the snake right now (assuming because no ad was placed). MM gets all upset and starts spamming the OP's threads because she backed out on the deal.

MM I do see your point (sorta).... but in my mind... it still does not grant you the right to bash her threads. There never was a transaction.

It would be like me bashing the person I am chatting with in email if she backs out.... for whatever reason... she changed her mind. Its part of business. Some people are blunt and will tell you why... some people are not and will make up lies that they THINK will make you feel better about the lost sale.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Let me say this....

Its called customer service. Yeah... the OP wanted to buy a snake from you... then found a better deal. While I dont completely agree with it... it happens. It happens all the time. Deal with it.

I have been talking via email with someone for 3 days. We have sent several emails back and forth every day. She's asking alot of questions and Im answering them (there have been 5 emails already today) All of this to sell a $40 corn. In the last email she wasnt sure if she wanted it now or to wait till july/aug when she moves. I may or may not get the sale... but either way Im happy. Its called customer service. Even if she doesnt buy now... you can bet your she will remember the time I spent answering all her questions and hopfully come back to me when she is ready to buy.

Here's what Im seeing Magical.... you got upset cause a buyer backed out on you. Let me toss this at you. If I would have had a potential deal with you in the last 3-4 days.... I would have backed out on you too... and then you'd be pissed at me (and possibly stalking my threads as well). I found out yesterday my dog has heartworms... and his health is worth more to me than completing a snake deal. Its gonna take money to treat him... alot of it.

Here is the point I am trying to make... never mark a snake as sold and remove the ads until money is in hand. I had to learn this the hard way as well. Now if someone contacts me via email or PM about a snake.... I will mark it as payment pending and they have 24hrs to complete the deal or it goes right back up for sale. IF someone else is REALLY interested... they will check back in 24hrs to see if it is sold.

Now let me touch on the part I hilighted in Red..... everyone that contacts you is a legitmate customer. If you fail to treat them as such... then it is your own fault for loosing business. Now the real question is this..... is this thread showing folks why they shouldnt do business with YOU?

Why get mad because someone backed out.... roll with the punches and move on. If you took the ad down... learn from the mistakes and do better next time.

Hey Kevin, just a note. If you read all the emails she didn't let her frustration show after she backed out. She wished her well and still offered to help. No-matter how she was feeling, the contact with the buyer via emails were still kept professional. The transaction seemed to end on a professional note and I think we all can agree to that.

It wasn't until the OP re posted a Ad that Shadera decided that she was lied to and then brought up the fact that the buyer backed out. Her decision to respond to that was at the crux of the issue. My opinion on that has already been posted but I think it is safe bet that no-matter how any of us view how it was handled, Shadera didn't respond until after she thought she was lied to. You can make a case that it was wrong but the evidence shows she responded only after the perceived lie not the actual backing out.

 

[JeffX]

Honestly I think this reflects poorly on the seller more than the buyer. Buyers will back out, it happens. I've been in sales, gave quotes, and have those people never come back. I've spent hours with people who never spent a dime with me. Did I get mad about it, no? That is what happens in sales. It's not like she had you drive a few hundred miles to say "forget it." She found a better deal, and went with it. With you following her around just makes you look bad. I'm sorry, but you really have no reason to do it. So she lied? Get over it, and move on. Plus the snake wasn't even being advertised so you didn't lose any money anyways.

 

[kmrkvicka]

but did she really find another deal? no, she bumped an ad LOOKING for a better deal, lol. I think Shadera even mentioned she knew that she was reacting a bit much, but lets be honest, every once in a while, it gets to us all. OMG!!! Shadera is HUMAN!!! So, let's burn her, and all boycott her, and never buy from her again!!


All that said, I actually think that Shadera has come across to me as MORE of my kinda person, and I'm MORE likely to have trades, and buy from her in the future. If someone is willing to lye about the little things, what won't they lie about???

and for the last time, Jeff, she states very clearly, even in her email to the potential buyer, it WAS NEVER ABOUT THE MONEY!!!

 

[dturner100]

I don't know the policy about disagreeing with mods, but I'm going to throw this out there whether I get hung or not.

It doesn't matter why she backed out of the deal. She could be having a vasectomy next week and didn't want to disclose that information. The FACT is that though backing out of a deal is bad business it doesn't deserve the treatment she got. I did in fact read all of the emails. Please tell me that you've never gone into a store to price a product while convincing the salesman you're "probably" going to buy it when in reality you're still just shopping around.

Yes the op made a mistake, but Shadera's reputation around here in no way warrants the the harassment of a new member.

Also as stated by somebody previously this thread is damaging BOTH parties. The best plan of action would be to walk away from the whole thing, or better yet apologize to each other, and look like professional adults.

Once again... My two cents.

 

[dturner100]

Also I've been in contact with the op, and the person she found the other deal with so yes she really did find another deal.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I don't know the policy about disagreeing with mods, but I'm going to throw this out there whether I get hung or not.

It doesn't matter why she backed out of the deal. She could be having a vasectomy next week and didn't want to disclose that information. The FACT is that though backing out of a deal is bad business it doesn't deserve the treatment she got. I did in fact read all of the emails. Please tell me that you've never gone into a store to price a product while convincing the salesman you're "probably" going to buy it when in reality you're still just shopping around.

Yes the op made a mistake, but Shadera's reputation around here in no way warrants the the harassment of a new member.

Also as stated by somebody previously this thread is damaging BOTH parties. The best plan of action would be to walk away from the whole thing, or better yet apologize to each other, and look like professional adults.

Once again... My two cents.

No we only post our opinion like anyone else so I don't know why you would have to fear disagreeing with anyone. But, who are you disagreeing with? I don't think either mod posted that what she did was correct. If I'm wrong, please show me.