• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Shane Bunek - INQUIRY - (Bad Experience)

what people fail to realize is

that once you allow anyone to arbitrarily attach a fee to a charge then why not charge 5 or 6 or 10% as an add on. I am sure that you could see the danger and lunacy associated with this approach.

The whole purpose of PayPal is to provide an easy alternative to paying online as a safe and secure method of conducting business. The idea of capturing a sale under those methods are ideal for both the seller and buyer. It also provides some sense of security. I realize that the concept of PayPal has its faults, but when you take a look at the amount of satisfied customers in relation to those that complain. It basically equals that of credit card transactions.

Once you sign on, you are OBLIGATED, in operating within the rules of PayPal. Can you imagine what would happen if everyone decided to change the rules to suit their own needs! It would lead to business anarchy. This is what you have here!

An individual, who does not care about rules, has no concern that he jeapordizes his own AVENUE for collecting money, and does not even have the intillegence to attempt to resolve the matter so as not to loose the sale. You are not dealing with a business minded person here. AND THIS IS ALL BEFORE THE SALE ! can you imagine what kind of dealings you would have with this individual if something went wrong after the sale! This industry is better off without these kinds of people, and I for one am very glad that this was brought to the attention of the BOI. If for nothing else, the BOI in its infinite wisdom retains information. A potential buyer may think twice before buying from a person who has no respect whatsoever for his ONLY source of conducting business online. You can imagine his other bad habits....
 
The whole fee issue is just semantics. As an example: When figuring out pricing on a product/animal, I'll add up all the costs associated with that animal (initial purchase price, feeding/housing costs, packaging, credit card/paypal charges etc) add a profit margin on there and that's the price. So whether the charge is in the price of the animal or expanded out as a seperate charge the customer is still paying for it. The whole argument is a perceived (<--- key word here) overcharge by the public that gives your potential customer a reason to say no. Really not a smart option which will cost you more sales than the new sales having a lower advertised price. Frankly the law is just a feel good law (makes politicians have the ability to say they did something when in fact nothing was accomplished) that does nothing to protect the public in reality. I can give a "cash discount" or "money order discount" that again just changes the labels on the terms but does not affect the final dollar amount the customer pays.

that once you allow anyone to arbitrarily attach a fee to a charge then why not charge 5 or 6 or 10% as an add on. I am sure that you could see the danger and lunacy associated with this approach.
Click to expand...

No I don't. As a business owner I have the right to set my prices as I see fit. By your above logic there should be a set profit margin? The amount of the fee is not the issue but rather the perceived wrong doing by breaking the fee out seperate. I agree that it's against their TOS and against the law (which I personally feel is a waste of time) but to then expand that to question other areas of his business is a stretch. Like saying that drinking beer on your front lawn (breaking the law in many cities) leads to heroin use and child pornography.

I do agree that his email responses were about the most ignorant move a person trying to do business on the net could do. Just no other way to look at that portion of the argument.
 
You should have said...

that sure, I will use a money order. Of course I will have to deduct the money order fee. Plus I drive a big SUV and the closest post office is 15 miles away. So I will also be taking off $3.20 for gas. I might get hungry driving that far and have to get lunch. That will cost...... and so on.
 
DANIEL, of course a more sensible

approah would have been to add any additional charges as part of the "shipping and handling", But what this person was doing was not only flagrently illegal, but flaunting the rules that he agreed to when he accepted PayPals TOS.

My reference to the higher percentage rates were directly related to his poor choices for getting additional money from a perspective buyer. It is illegal not only by PayPals rules, but in many state laws as well. Of course you have the right to set your price structures , but once you agree to accept the terms, then that supersedes your own policy . I can assure you from very good experience, you are at the mercy of the credit card providers terms , NOT YOURS! If you dont like it, then you always have the option of bowing out of accepting credit cards, paypal , etc. but I dont think you are going to do that! So its a little bit more than just semantics, or incroaching on your right to contol what you want to sell something for.

Your dealing with a very ignorant person here, who may use PayPal, for a limited period of time, just to move out his inventory, and hopefully, never to be heard from again. I hope thats the case.
 
I gotta agree with Jerry on this one. If a person lacks the integrity to abide by the specific terms that he agreed to, I have to wonder what other aspects of his business he's dishonest about.
 
Guys and gals...

Let me ask this question: If you sell a boa for $100, plus shipping, and prior to shipping the boa, the buyer sends a money order or check to you for $150, to cover the boa and shipping, and the shipping comes to $44, and not $50, will you send the $6 back? If the shipping comes to $56, will you go home, email the buyer and demand $6 more before you will ship? NO, of course not. What happens is, a TOTAL price is agreed on, you as the buyer might pay a bit more if shipping is less than figured, or you may pay more as the seller if the shipping happens to be higher...but at one time, both buyer and seller felt good enough about the price/total amount to go ahead with the deal. What this topic is about is a guy who said the animal is $100, but is $103 if you want to use paypal. Smart, no, actually quite dumb. But really not significant, and not worth all this fuss. I do not own paypal, I do not have stock in paypal, actually not a big fan of paypal, so I do not really care if someone breaks the rules. That is THEIR business, if you do not like it, do not buy from them. NOW, if someone was shipping hots through a carrier that does not allow them, and is shipping hots in a flimsy box, or something that will harm the herp business, then I do have a problem with it. I guess my thought is, so what about paypal and the fee and not being able to pass it on to your customer, lets leave this type of issue to the person, his customer and paypal, and worry about the next retic to strangle someone or the next hot to bite through a poorly packed box...real issues that affect the herp industry.

For the record, I charge a flat $40 for shipping through Delta Dash, I do not charge for NEW snake bags, NEW reptile shipping boxes or heat packs. If you overpay on accident, like the price was $1020, and you send me $1200, I will send you a check for $180, but if you send a check for $1020, $40 of it for shipping and the actual cost of shipping is $38.75, I am sorry, but I will chalk the extra 125 pennies up to gas money:)

Maybe I am just not papal savvy enough???

And dude, if you are reading this thread, charge $110 for your $100 snake, and give a $10 cash or check or money order discount....I would never do this type of business, but if you are so worried about an extra $3 or $6, maybe you should financially go in another direction....non herp related.
 
That's the old "why are you giving me a speeding ticket officer, when there are real criminals on the streets?" argument, which is an unsound argument. We are all concerned about the illegal shipping, keeping, etc. of herps, that give us all a bad name. That does not mean lesser offenses should be ignored.
I don't use paypal, to buy or sell. Credit cards or M.O. only, so I'm not here to be paypals savior, either. I won't pay extra for the priveledge of using a card, nor do I buy stuff were there is an arbitrary handling fee. As I said in my previous post, put the charges into the cost of the animal or consider it a cost of doing business. The issue (and a valid one at that) is that he is using a service, and is violating the TOS, and the LAW. PERIOD. In addition he has the nerve to say.....paraphrazing."what business does paypal have taking away my profits", that is ignorant, he is saying yeah, let me use your service, but I want them for free, screw your TOS and the law.
It's a matter of ethics, and puts honest, ethical breeders at a disadvantage. Sure it's ONLY 3%, but what if it was a couple BP morphs, that 3% could be hundreds of dollars.
 
p.s. I forgot.
Yes, I have opened up a shipment and there is a couple dollars sitting with the bill of sale for overpayment of shipping fees.
 
I'll just add a quick note.

Kelli - I think this is the place for your post because it started as a business transaction. You may have tried to go the extra mile, but how a person handles themselves throughout a business transaction (and with annoying customers) gives a sense of what kind of business they run. Makes you wonder what kind of customer service you'd get if they were DOA, ect. So I think that anything remotely herp business related should be posted here.

I'd sure like to know if the people I'm dealing with have a habit of getting easily frustrated and have sent obscene e-mails to potential customers.
 
I'd sure like to know if the people I'm dealing with have a habit of getting easily frustrated and have sent obscene e-mails to potential customers.
Click to expand...

In my personal opinion this is the greater evil that he performed, instead of over where he placed his 3% charge fee.
 
I usually do not post threads or replies on the BOI, but having personally talked to Kelli several times I feel that I have to say something. I find Kelli to be a stand-up person and a great breeder in the reptile world. The email that was sent to her by this Shane person was obscene, unprofessional, and should not be tolerated. If he sends emails like this to fellow breeders and potential customers, and if he makes no apologies breaking the law in blatantly disregarding the TOS of paypal, then what other types of shadey business ethics does he practice?

From the standpoint of a breeder who has processed hundreds of transactions, I am happy to pay for the 3% that Paypal charges. Because of Paypal I have been able to sell many, many more reptiles than I would without their service. I would also like to point out that I do not like to eat 3% on transactions of my higher priced animals. Let's face it, 3% of $2,000 is a lot of money. So in those cases I will accept money orders only and provide ample references. I agree that if Shane does not want to eat the 3% then he should charge more for his reptiles to begin with to make up the difference.

In any event, Shane's hostile emails and disregard for the law should be enough to prevent anyone from doing business with him - either as a buyer or a seller.

Take care, Kelli. Don't feel bad about anything regarding this situation. You've done nothing wrong.
 
I guess my take is:

I would be more concerned with people selling one eyed, no eyes, and "shaking" boas vs. someone trying to add the Paypal fee to an order. I am not defending his email, it was uncalled for, and on this small (monitarily) of an order, why bother with adding $3 to the total? If your margin is that close, time to look for another job/line of business.
 
when a fee of this nature becomes

the difference between making a sale or loosing one, and in this case this showing his indifference to a good potential buyer. Imagine what kind of a reaction you would receive after a purchase was made.

The fee is as we all know was a negligible amount of money in this particular instance, but enough for Shane to be willing to loose a sale , should raise eyebrows and provide a concern for Kelli.

It becomes apparent that you are dealing with a person who really does not know what he is doing. His business sense is warpped, and his thinking about loosing a sale is for the greater good than making one because of a charge that should not even be their really leaves one to wonder about some of the other difficulties customers would run into when dealing with a character like Shane. I am glad that the BOI in her infinite wisdom has a search button which will alert potential buyers to this kind of moronic behaviour. Who would want to deal with a fool who would rather loose business then gain a customer!
 
Kelli (and everyone else, for that matter).... one thing you might want to realize, is that even though payPal is a very good way of paying, and getting paid, very quickly.... UNLESS THE PACKAGE IS NEVER DELIVERED.... PayPal is NO form of security AT ALL when it comes to animals.... once PayPal understands that the transaction dealt with live animals, they WASH THEIR HANDS OF THE WHOLE MATTER, leaving the person who got screwed, STILL SCREWED.... it doesn't matter WHAT the facts are, even if you sent them back and didn't get reimbursed, they won't lift a finger to get your money back.... it's a "dead" issue as far as they're concerned....
With this in mind, be VERY CAREFUL when you pay someone with PayPal.... if you're doing it for the "sense of security", in case something goes wrong.... you're going to be in for a very rude awakening should something REALLY go wrong....

But, Kelli, I agree with you 100%.... anyone that insists on getting the extra 3% if you use PayPal.... will NEVER get my business.... You did the RIGHT THING by bringing it here....

Neil
 
There's probably no fool-proof method for both buyer and seller. My personal preference are postal money orders, even when dealing with large sums of money (will have to issue more than one). Although it might be a hassle to try to get your money back if something goes wrong, non delivered of merchandise = federal offense. As a buyer I feel more reassured that I'm going to receive what I paid for. As a seller, the same thing, as a USPS money order is just like cash. The only concern is that both can be stopped by the sender. So I guess it all boils down to a degree of trust between buyer and seller.

Regards.
 
The huge mistake . . .

. . . was ripping a person of Kelli's popularity over a 3% charge. It's almost laughable. Kelli garners a lot of respect among gecko enthusists. Her good word carries a lot of clout among many of us.

I'm sure Shane may be regretting the negative publicity he gained from this post.

Then again, after dealing with some people in this hobby, who knows . . . LOL
 
Hey, no one is ruining your reputation

but your business sense or lack of is another story. PayPal prohbits any fee for the use of their services. End of story. You seem to think otherwise, but more than that your dumb enough to complain about it in an email which has already been brought to the attention of the PayPal authorities. Secondly, I am not sure what state you are in, but their are state laws that prohibit fees as well. That does not seem to bother you either. So now you are making some veil threats against Kelli.

Hopefully two things will come out of this. 1 , you may come to your senses and realize that Kelli in fact, did you a big favor by pointing out some potential illegalities that could really effect your business, and 2, if their are any inquiries about you or your business, people will have an opportunity to see how you handle yourself and what they can expect .

Personally, I hope people check you out here on the BOI, basically because contrary to what you may think the fact that you own a business (and that remains to be seen!!!!) does not mean you can do whatever you want.

People go out of their way to insure a good name, when conducting themselves in a business transaction. When Kelli brought to your attention that a fee was illegal, rather than giving her a hard time about it, you could have been a bit more diplomatic, a bit more smarter than the next guy, but you ruffled your feathers and felt an encroachment into your life and the conduct you created, and I hope you pay for it. Some businessman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
fantasticreptiles?

Before you "go to war" with kelli, a few questions..... Who is fantasticreptiles, who is Rose Blazer?

Not posting your full name and posting with someone elses account are both against the BOI rules.

But you have already shown that you don't care about rules........
 
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