Bad Guy Shane Porter

[savitarthesurfinggod]

Really hoping the other three are going to be alright and are not injured as well

 

[snakesRkewl]

You should be ashamed of yourself shane, what a childish move it was to blame your girlfriend like it was her fault for not putting insulation in the box.
Oh but you ship like this ALL OF THE TIME???
You sent messed up animals, messed them up even more shipping them and then blame her for your lies about their weights!
You are are one piece of //*&*%$

 

[Lucille]

I think there should be some form of compensation here. .

Totally agree.

Texas has an extremely strong consumer protection statutes, see the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act where you can get up to triple damages plus attorney fees, and an exceptionally easy Small Claims court process.

 

[Stray]

I commented on this one first on Facebook, and I am actually glad to see it here, so that more people can follow it. I am SO sorry to hear that at least one of the girls has vet-confirmed injuries. That poor, poor snake. Like I said on FB, they are lucky to be alive, having been shipped in such a way! That box could have easily been crushed by a larger package or dropped or tossed in such a way that could have been fatal to these poor girls :c

Kathy, I agree with what you and several others have said: I am SO glad that you have these girls now. I am sorry that you are losing so much money on this (I strongly believe you should receive at least all of your money back, plus the cost of the girl's or girls' vet bill/s so I'm hoping you contact your bank, SYR, etc.), but these ladies are so lucky to have found their way to you. Absolutely no question that the shipping method was positively inhumane and deplorable.

Best of luck to you and those poor snakes and I seriously and sincerely hope you get some sort of financial compensation for your and their suffering :c Wishing them a speedy recovery!!

Also, please be respectful and keep this on-topic. This is a depressing enough thread without forcing the poor mods to get involved to settle personal beefs.

 

[redhood23]

After a better look at them last night, they were sexed and yes they are all female. I wanted to let them have a little time to settle after being shipped that way, and we decided that one of them definitely was having some neurological signs. We were trying to video the jerky head movement when we realized she wasn't moving quite right in the lower half and was torqued a little. We then palpated her and could feel an area that was indented. So, I too her to the vet today and took X-rays. This was done on a Saturday, very busy for clinics, and I was not able to stay for the official vet number of broken ribs but the techs and I counted 11, and Brett Bloom who posted here earlier counted many more. I am sure he will comment.

So, Shane Porter, do you still think they way they were shipped was perfectly fine??? (Sorry Mods, but I am so sad that she is having to deal with this...)

I will be Xraying the others ASAP as well. I know you are not going to refund willingly any of the 465.00 I spent with you but this incident is far more than you, me, or these 4 snakes. This is an industry issue, and you have more snakes and are trying to sell more snakes. They are the ones, and the people who might buy from you, that this BOI is for. Your former snakes will be given the very best care I can afford. That means right now I will be taking on an extra job for them. That also means that I will not get to breed this season because it was all the money i had left to buy this year, and tub space will be taken up with non breeders, gladly so that they may heal, but space never the less. I am glad they are here. I love them all! My only sadness is that they might not have been hurt had I not bought them, but who knows they might have died depending on where they were shipped. I will address other comments made directly to and about me ASAP, for clarification purposes only.

Let me start off with saying that these are very good quality radiographs kathy. I have been a Radiologic techologist for 10 years now and can tell you rib fractures suck majorly! For rib fractures you cannot really do anything at all. They heal all on their own. Snakes, just like people start calcifying right away when there is trauma. You do not want to add any stress at all. Broken ribs, if moved or wrapped can possibly puncture internal organs. Just give the snake water and leave it alone for a while while it heals. And the term break when speaking of bones is actually the same as a fracture, only difference is one is a medical term the other is laymens terms. Many people think there is a difference, but a fracture is and disruption or separation of the cortex of any bone. I don't know why but after 10 years that still is one of my pet peeves. I am constantly explaining that to my patients. Also hate having to explain venom is a type of poison. With that poison is any substance topical, injected or ingested that alters the bodys' natural function, appearance or performance. Sorry for my rant.

As for these broken ribs, I also see mild dislocations of a few ribs from the spine of the snake as well. Dislocations of the ribs can actually be more painful than a broken rib and can possibly take longer for swelling to subside. The free floating broken ribs are my main concern, as these will be more difficult for the body to heal as well may cost more damage during the healing process. In my honest opinion, the snake should be xrayed again for actual air fluid levels. have the doctor do a lateral x-ray. If there is fluid or free air in the diaphram, a chest tube or other medical attention may be needed.

 

[Fila]

Response to Shane Porter's explanation

i love how she just keeps telling half the story! heres the last time i will reply, i blocked u on FB because you and your friends keep sending me tash in my pm box.

All the messages sent to you from me on this issue were posted here, so me telling half the story is impossible. I am unsure what my friends have sent you and did not ask them to or condone it, but blocking me wont stop them from anything.

ive shipped several snakes the sameway never had issues, she told me to ship to a hub not to her house, and did not contact me like i asked asap when she got them. instead she took the time to take pictures and start all this BS. i dont know how long they were left at the hub, its up to her to pick up the snakes when they get there.

I asked you to ship to the hub so that the snakes would have the least amount of jostling. A ride in a Fed Ex truck is unnecessary when they can be held at the hub and is not an uncommon practice. As we discussed, my sister was to pick the snakes up for me and take them straight to the vet clinic where she works. She took the first box picture in the truck right after she picked them up in the Fed EX parking lot. The rest of the pictures were taken at the vet clinic. I received an email from Fed Ex saying that the snakes would arrive around 10:30 am, and my sister was to go get them as soon as they called. I gave you, Shane, her number but she never got the call because for some reason they called my phone, that was turned off because I watch my grandchildren some mornings and the baby was sleeping. So I was unaware that they were at the hub until around 11 when the baby went home and I checked my messages. I immediately called my sister to go get them and she did. I was flabbergasted that the snakes would be shipped in the manner that they were, amazed that they were sent with simple preventable husbandry health issues ie retained sheds and eye caps, and very upset when my sister called me with the weights of the snakes. I did take time to present the grievances to the best of my ability to you, and did contact you about 12 hours after I took actual physical possession. I did not post anything to anyone about this until after you told me, essentially, I was lied to and to be happy with it anyway.

i put in a heat pack to keep them warm after she said for me not to because it could cook the snakes. i also shipped on the days she asked. she knew the weather would be cold. she snakes were in the box for 13hrs, they left my home with no issues or RI. and i dont think they will get one over night. it takes days at low and incorrect temps to make them sick.

When I asked you to not cook my snakes I was speaking about the week priors temperatures, not the time you were able to ship them the next week. I never specifically said not to use heat packs, just not to cook them. I knew the weather was going to be cold when you shipped them and you stated you would use a heat pack. There is NO way to determine what is an 'ok' amount of time for an animal to be stressed via cold before the immune system is compromised and they become more susceptible to illnesses. There are no magic time or temps, it varies with each individual snake.

i also never told u for sure how much these snakes weighted, i never said they are correct weights for sure. i told u i had them weighted by a friend on his scales. i also did not try and breed a 750 grm snake. 1400-1500 is as small as i would breed. i also told u that i would mark the bag with the snake i bred to my mojave. shes 1400g+

You told me after I got them that a friends scales were used. You never told me that the weights were guesses, either.

you keep tellin people half the story trying to make me look bad, i put insurance on the snakes, I ALSO said for u to pay shipping an send them back i would be glad to refund u. i said this how many days ago? all i got was a reply callin me a theif...u can forget me refunding u anything! seems like your just wanting something for free! you payed 79.00 a snake! i went out my way to be fair, you obviously dont want to resolve anything, the snakes arrived alive! thats what matters, insurance i put on them would have covered if they had died.

im done tryin to talk to u and i have nothing else to say to you or anybody on here. you all can believe what u want. she doesnt reccomend me as a seller well shes the worst buyer! i wouldnt sell water to her if she was a fish!

I will not speak other than facts, all documented and presented here to the best of my knowledge. You sent me several PM messages in a row, basically excusing yourself from any monetary or ethical misdoings. I would never forgive myself if the money was more important than the health of these snakes so shipping them back would have been unethical on my part. Dont forget to look at the xrays posted here.

 

[Fila]

You are almost correct here Shane Porter

rich i told her she could send them back a few days ago i got called a theif so thats that, there her snakes now. they are alive an well im sure. she just wants something for free.... if i would have sent her some money back on the she still would have said all this im sure.

You were informed of the theft by deception legal aspect and you quickly blocked me after your last few private posts so that my response would not reach you. Had you made a fair offer of reimbursement and owned up to a blatantly obvious lie and terrible and dangerous shipping incident, I would have posted that you did, but yes, the community needs to be protected from uncaring and inexperienced shippers. Had you apologized, showed remorse, or any form of those actions, it would have gone far as to what kind of character you are. Instead, it seems like all you cared about was the money, instead of me.

 

[Fila]

When I talked to him in my convo with him he guaranteed sex and health, but his word is garbage. Kathy said she had em sexed and they were girls. That was the first thing she did.

Actually I did not sex them right away. I waited until Friday evening but it was done by the time I spoke with you I chose to wait until Friday to give them a little time to settle from a terrible shipping experience. They were here, not going back, so really what sex they were wasn't a huge concern other than to prove or disprove what they were sold as and that would not change no matter when we did it

 

[Fila]

As for these broken ribs, I also see mild dislocations of a few ribs from the spine of the snake as well. Dislocations of the ribs can actually be more painful than a broken rib and can possibly take longer for swelling to subside. The free floating broken ribs are my main concern, as these will be more difficult for the body to heal as well may cost more damage during the healing process. In my honest opinion, the snake should be xrayed again for actual air fluid levels. have the doctor do a lateral x-ray. If there is fluid or free air in the diaphram, a chest tube or other medical attention may be needed.

I am most scared of the free floating ribs as well. She seems very active, best she can, and is in a small tub to restrict movement yet be comfortable. She does not appear to have a diaphragm hernia that I have seen occur in dogs or cats, and she does no open mouth breathing so far. This is a recommendation, to make water available in a short bowl and easily accessible. I do not think I will move her again for at least 6 weeks unless she seems distressed. I did not opt for a lateral Xray because she would have had to have been sedated somewhat or she would have struggled, and it was discussed and I chose to wait on that one. How will the free floating ones reattach? Do they ever stay free floating? I am already taking on an extra job to pay for all of the xrays and whatever else but I will do whatever I have to as my credit is excellent with my vet

 

[redhood23]

Free floating ribs really do not wander much due to muscle and organs holding them in place. They will calcify back to the break with help from the muscles to get them in place. The body is an amazing thing.

 

[Fila]

We now have the first signs of one breaking with a possible RI Clicking, holding the head up, and a sneeze. It has now officially gone from 3 possible breeding females, to two possible breeding females, to no breeding females Yeah, probably going to need all my money back and then some....PM me your best tips. I might hear something I havent before. Sooo glad for a good QT area!

 

[ceh421]

Shane, I havn't seen any response to the x-rays or the RI. I sure as hell hope your sleeping right now and will respond with full intent to fully reeburse Kathy. Kathy, knowing and having good credit with a vet is good. Im glad you are taking care of these snakes now. If you did get a receipt for the vet, I'd post a pic or scan of it as well. Maybe it will help Shane sleep better at night.

 

[AceOfSpadesReptiles]

I don't usually like to comment on these BOI threads but since I have gone through a paypal transaction where the seller was a "scammer" and I needed my money back even though it had been sent through as a gift I will give some suggestions/ tips. I don't know what bank you have but they should all follow somewhat similar guidelines. I would call them if you haven't already done so and tell them the situation that you received animal or a "product" that was misrepresented. I told my bank it was a snake for myself. The regulations for different fees might be different but mine was for $200 on a debit card and another $200 on a credit via paypal all transactions sent as a gift. Again I told them the situation and they got my money back in 5 days usually takes 3-5 business days from what they told me. It should be a simple 30 minute phone call or so but your bank is typically willing to please so they should work with you. I hope this helps you out and I know it would help to cover vet fees which a seller should compensate you for but I know in situations like this, it may not be reality. I wish you good luck and I'm happy they fell into your hands.

 

[Fangthane]

I hope this helps you out and I know it would help to cover vet fees which a seller should compensate you for but I know in situations like this, it may not be reality. I wish you good luck and I'm happy they fell into your hands.

The problem with that is that once her funds were returned to her, the snakes would become the seller's property again. It's possible that, once the money was taken from him, he may be willing to renegotiate a price that'd reflect a heavy discount to help cover vet costs. However, based on how he's chosen to accept zero responsibility for their condition, I have to doubt that he'd be so reasonable.

If/when negotiations failed, she'd be obligated to give him a reasonable amount of time to arrange for his property to be returned to him. As much as I'd love to see the guy Kruse-ified, I don't think it'd be right for her to keep the snakes and the money, unless the seller would actually agree to it. Either way, based on the following statements, I don't think that the OP has any intentions of sending them back to him:

I would never forgive myself if the money was more important than the health of these snakes so shipping them back would have been unethical on my part.

They were here, not going back, so really what sex they were wasn't a huge concern other than to prove or disprove what they were sold as and that would not change no matter when we did it

I hate to see anyone getting screwed over, but it is refreshing to see someone value their animals in terms other than dollars and cents. I have to applaud her apparent willingness to do right by the animals, even if the seller doesn't do right by her.

 

[skirtinthedirt]

They may reattach, if they are still held in place by surrounding structures (connective tissue), and the bones are able to make a little "bridge" to them. For a snake that is all ribs and moving a lot, I would imagine this is unlikely, but possible. In my experience (as a vet tech and reptile rehabber), you have a best, middle, and worst case scenario:

Best: The ribs don't migrate anywhere dangerous and she quickly develops scar tissue around them to sequester them and keep them from migrating. The ribs basically are treated like a foreign body and her body will work to enclose it in fibrous tissue and it sits in there forever with no real issue except stiffness and maybe some movement problems.

Middle: The same thing as above, but the process takes a long time because she has an intense inflammatory reaction to the broken ribs and she stays sick and painful for a while, maybe has occasional flare-ups of inflammation that make her feel crummy from time to time.

Worst: Broken snake ribs are like little needles. Worst case is that they migrate into vital tissue (lungs, digestive tract, etc). This can cause complications ranging from none (unlikely) to severe inflammation causing lifelong problems (for instance into the lungs, where she may have respiratory problems forever), to rupture of said organs causing death from bleeding, infection (for instance if her digestive tract is ruptured and leaks digestive contents into her abdomen), death from organ failure (a ruptured bladder or destroyed kidney, for instance), or complications from scar tissue causing an obstruction (not in a snake, but we had a dog come in once with a cluster of porcupine quills that migrated into his chest. They created so much inflammation and scar tissue it was cutting off the circulation and nerve function to one front leg. We fixed it with surgery, but he still doesn't have full function of the limb).

My advice would be to keep her movements restricted, feed her much smaller meals than she could normally eat (to avoid expending her ribs/abdomen too much), and take follow up x-rays to keep an eye on the position of the "floaters")

I think 6 weeks is a safe bet in terms of seeing what consequences there may be, but keep in mind it is not unheard of for foreign bodies (which are basically what the floating ribs are now) to cause issues years later. She will always be a little 'special needs' IMO. I would consider taking radiographs every 6 months to a year, and doing bloodwork yearly or any time she seems unwell, to ensure she isn't going to start having an issue.

Also, I'm sure you already though of this, but I wouldn't breed her, if she were mine. Getting all swollen with eggs would be a great way to upset those floating ribs.

Good luck. It's really unfortunate that this easily could have been prevented.

 

[snakesRkewl]

If/when negotiations failed, she'd be obligated to give him a reasonable amount of time to arrange for his property to be returned to him. As much as I'd love to see the guy Kruse-ified, I don't think it'd be right for her to keep the snakes and the money, unless the seller would actually agree to it.

I'd love to see that...

She's not obligated to return them, she might be obligated to let him come get them if he's not too chicken to do so

I personally think it would be right to keep the property he neglected and the money but short of that, maybe he can pick them up at the animal control office along with being arrested for animal abuse...

 

[Fangthane]

She's not obligated to return them, she might be obligated to let him come get them if he's not too chicken to do so

Which is why I worded my response as I did.

give him a reasonable amount of time to arrange for his property to be returned to him

I personally think it would be right to keep the property he neglected and the money but short of that, maybe he can pick them up at the animal control office along with being arrested for animal abuse...

Unless we're officially doing away with the old axiom about two wrongs not making a right, her choosing to exercise unlawful control over his property would simply bring her down to his level. Also, I'm all for the smiting of one's enemies, however, turning them over to animal control wouldn't seem to be the right move for someone who actually has the snakes' best interests in mind.

 

[airtight_python]

I would just like to say that I live near Kathy and know her personally. She is a good person in every aspect. I have also examined the 4 females she received from Shane myself. Everything that has been presented here is accurate. Very poor shipping practice which caused fractured ribs and probable respiratory issues. One of them has a damaged eye. I can not tell if it is A LOT of stuck eye caps, or if it has been damaged in some other way. Either way, it is blind from that eye. Not to mention one of them is thin, and they are all well under the weights told to her at the time of purchase. She was looking forward to having more females to put to all of her males this year. That's not going to happen now.

Shane Porter is not someone I will personally ever do business with. He was no assistance from the get go once she informed him of the heath and shipping issues with those females. He's trying to make Kathy look like the one in the wrong here because she took a couple of hours to gather herself and assess the damages to present them in an accurate and civilized manner.

If you are one to value integrity, please avoid Shane.

 

[redhood23]

I totally agree with Brandon, Kathy is a really good lady. Then again, Brandon is an awesome guy as well.

 

[Fila]

http://youtu.be/qaNIjVEfZR4 YouTube video of the newly sick one with a suspected RI. She is at times bubbling and drooling, but not popping or clicking quite as bed.