Sick leo -- realistic expectations?

[humpbacks1962]

I have a young leo (~2 mo old) that completely stopped eating two days ago. She was passing watery stools off and on for two weeks after I fed her a butterworm. The white urate portion was always solid, though. In the last four days she regurgitated everything she ate, including her skin shed and a whole cricket.

Other leos ate from the same worm batch, nobody got sick. Her substrate is a paper towel. Her water dish and tank are disinfected every other day.

I am dropping her off at the vet tomorrow morning, a reptile specialist will check her. She drank about two drops of unflavored Pedialyte tonight, from a syringe. She is absolutely unresponsive to food, but I tried to re-hydrate her without forcing too much liquid in. She drank what she licked off her snout.

The thing is, I have read everything. All stories about recovery from near death, cadaveric-looking lizards to death the night before the visit to the vet. She is not skinny, but has lost weight. Her tail is still plumpy, you can't see bones through her skin, but the armsies are getting a little wrinkled around the elbow. Her eyes were halfway shut last time I saw her.

So, my question is, what is a rational expectation, all things considered?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

awww...

I'm sorry your gecko is not feeling well, and I am glad you are taking her to the vet. I have a great recipe for dropper-feeding anorexic geckos:

In a blender, combine:
1 small can Hill's A/D pet food (available at most vets)
1/4-1/3 cup Ensure (not chocolate)
1 jar baby food squash
1/4-1/3 cup Pedialite
2 tablets or contents of 2 capsules milk thistle (herbal supplement, liver purifier, found at most drug stores.)
1/2 tsp. each calcium powder and herp vitamin powder
1 large handful of mealworms, added slowly while mixture is blending

Puree all ingredients until completely smooth, and pour into ice cube tray(s) and freeze. Store cubes in zip-lock bag in the freezer until ready to use, then thaw out 1 cube at a time and store in fridge for 2-3 days. I use the empty baby food jar for this purpose, washing it thoroughly after each batch.

*Lately, I have been adding about 1 tsp. T-Rex Gargoyle MRP to each new thawed out cube.

Using this mixture, draw a full dropper (eye dropper type) and place a drop on the gecko's nose. It will lick it off, and as it does, slowly squeeze out a little at a time. Most geckos love this food, and will lap it up.


Good luck!

 

[humpbacks1962]

Thank you Marcia, that is very thoughtful and I'll surely try it.

So do you give this instead of bugs or still leave bugs in the tank? I wonder if she'll get any shots or medications. She does not even have a fresh poop for culture...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

bugs

It's my experience with many of the rescues I have taken in that the bugs just stress the geckos further. This food will get something into her tummy to produce a stool sample. If you cannot put the slurry together in time, just give her some baby food squash... which is a great carbohydrate and tends to 'bind' in the intestines.

 

[humpbacks1962]

I'm going to the grocery store now... Thanks!

 

[Xelda]

If she has been regurgitating for four days, you should probably not try to feed her for another day or two. Don't force feed her because it can agitate her system even further and make her regurgitate more. That's probably why she has no appetite right now. When you do feed her though, you might want to try a non-worm food item. It's possible she associates the worms with puking and would be more interested in crickets or something.

Giving her fluids in the meantime is a good idea though.

 

[humpbacks1962]

In the last four days she regurgitated two days, has not eaten since yesterday.

She did not throw up the drop of Pedialyte she had earlier and had about a drop of that mush. I felt like a Fear Factor host.

Her tummy looks plump, we'll see if she has a little poop for tomorrow. I am dropping her off at the office, going to work and then they'll call me before I pick her up...

I did add worms, and crickets and roaches. But she had, overall, about a drop of it. We'll see if she at least picks up.

I mean she is no thousand dollar gecko, she is just a little normal that will cost me over four times her price to treat tomorrow but she is mamma's little girl...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

yes...

Olivia is right... do not try to force-feed her. This will only stress her out more, and I do not recommend force-feeding unless it it a life-and-death situation and even then should be performed using a feeding tube. Chronic regurgitation can cause bile to come up and burn her throat, therefore not making eating a very pleasurable experience for her.

I would get all the bugs out of her enclosure and just try the baby food a little at a time on the end of her nose, allowing her to lap at it and swallow it under her own control. The purpose is to allow her to stimulate the feeding response and get something into her GI system in order to produce a stool for the vet to test.

 

[nydrgnldy]

Marcia,
I am trying that formula of yours.I have been looking for something that might help.I have 3 geckos.2 albinos and a patternless at the moment.1 albino and the aptternless are doing great no problems.This other one I just don't know.I have them housed seperatly and this one just stopped eating.I have been doing syringe feeding for about a week now and he isn't looking as bad but not where he should be.He is 1 month older than the other albino but looks about the same age.makes me crazy.I am going to try this little concoction of yours and hope for the best.
I really hope this works.I have been fighting with this gecko for weeks.
Robin

 

[LadyGecko]

I have also been having problems with 2 leo babies..no regurgitation but there seems to be a decrease in their feeding.
One day i will see them eat -the next day -nothing.
They are much smaller than they should be at the age that they are and a stool check showed no parasites.
I have 3 other babies that have taken off like weeds and these two are just puzzling me to no end.
Marcia- thanks for the recipe
Sandy

 

[humpbacks1962]

Marcia,

Thanks to you she made a poopi for the vet, overnight. It is not solid, it is the typical, watery light-colored stool and solid white urate. But in about two hours when the office opens it will be there for them to check.

She looked alert, resting on top of her coconut. I was terrified of finding her dead. I left no food in her tank overnight, just gave her the drop of mush and she did not regurgitate anything.

As far as the "forcing" I described I merely put stuff on her lips and when she opened her mouth occasionally, I squirted a tiny bit for her to gulp down. I did not put anything in her throat. I guess I call it forcing because asking her to do it wouldn't help

I'll let those in heaven return your favor for me, dear. How kind of you all to help and advise...

 

[riverjop]

Sandra, I switched all my leo's over to mealies. It has taken about a month and a half, but they are all now on mealies with an occasional lobster roach & sometimes a pinky (for the adults).
It took awhile for some of them to start back on the mealies, and a few refused for at least two weeks....I was on pins & needles thinking they were going to starve, but they made it fine and now I am completely cricket free!!!
Most reptiles can go allot longer than people realize without eating, they have a much slower metabalisam. One or two days is nothing! Also this time of year they are "naturally" eating & doing less as winter approaches.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

scary time of year...

there seems to be a decrease in their feeding. One day i will see them eat -the next day -nothing.

Also this time of year they are "naturally" eating & doing less as winter approaches.

Overton is absolutely right. This a a scary time of year when our geckos begin to lose their appetites and become more sluggish, and like you I am a worry-wart when my leos don't eat as voraciously as they do during spring and summer, and especially don't eat at all!

Sometimes it is a hard call to make on whether to take a gecko to the vet or not, so here are some guidelines I use and have added to the Care Sheet on my website. Some signs and symptoms it’s time to take your Leopard Gecko to the Vet would be:

- severe injury or open sores
- anorexia for more than 2-3 weeks
- unexplained, rapid weight loss
- weight loss of more than 10% of body weight
- diarrhea for more than 3-4 days
- green, mucous-laden, or unusually foul-smelling stool
- visible organisms or blood in stool
- inability to pass stool
- severe lethargy
- unwillingness to keep eyes open, or "sunken" eyes
- white, cheesy-like substance in the mouth
- open mouth gasping, or wheezing or clicking sounds when breathing
- severe tremors or seizures

 

[LadyGecko]

Hi Marcia- Thanks so much for that list of guidelines.
I am worried because these two are only 3 or so months old and just have not been showing the interest in food nor any real growth. I realize that this time of year is a slow down for reptiles- I do keep many reptiles -Bearded dragons-Iguana- Blue Tongue Skink and I have been keeping and growing out baby geckos for about 8 years now and this is the first time that I have run across this problem.
It is very frustrating to watch the Little Ones not do well.
Perhaps I have just been extremely fortunate in the past but I am used to buying a baby Leo and feeding them and just watching it take off like a weed in growth!!
This condition with these two is very puzzlng to me.
With these 2 I see a very small amount of growtrh in length and their tails have most defiitely gotten skinnier.
I have 3 other geckos that are around the same age that are growing like weeds and are litle eating machines.
I decided to intervene with putting drops of chicken baby food mixed with calcium on their noses and they have been eagerly licking it off.

I also do see them eat one or two crickets or worms but never more than that at a time.
Thanks everyone for all your help and please keep your fingers crossed for m these two little guys as they mean the world to me
I have been rermoving the crickets if they do not eat them and have put their mealies in a small glass ash tray.
Thankfully they both are alert and lively -AM I over reacting or is this slow growth sometimes normal?
This is a pic of one of ther babies in question.

Sandy

 

[humpbacks1962]

PINWORMS! Horrible, disgusting, nauseating and contagious PINWORMS!
My poor little 11 grams gecko has a massive infestation. So severe, her little tummy lining was irritated and that made her regurgitate everything she ate.

The vet says it came from the breeder, not the bugs I feed her. In fact, he told me I take very good care of my lizards. He said normally lizards have some pinworms but hers were far too numerous. Her breeder probably never took his animals to the vet, ever.

He is the top vet specialist -I can't even think about what he may not be good at- avian and reptilian specialist Dr. Giddings in Kensington, CT.

So he treated her with panacur and gave me two doses for the next two weeks. Not even a drop in size! And gave me some liquid calcium to supplement her feedings.
It is back to Goddess Marcia's syringe mush. I adore you

Guys, please if your leos have similar symptoms, take them to the vet! You can get panacur online but judging by the dosage, you have to be very careful if you plan to treat the animal yourself. I was tempted to, but it is not worth the savings without being sure. Besides, the paste form of panacur is to treat horses and the liquid worth about as much as you'll pay taking her to the vet and having him do the treatment anyway.

I guess I could have waited more days but she was acting too abnormal. My lizards are pets, I do not breed them. So maybe breeders of numerous animals take longer to notice. I just knew she was not well...

She was so badly infested, as far as this little girl was concerned she was not going to recover. And just to think the pain and discomfort she must have been in, devastates me.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

glad you went...

... to the vet!!! Pinworms are very common, and fortunately fairly easy to treat. Poor little things! Sandy, it sounds like a trip to the vet might be in order for your little ones, too.

 

[humpbacks1962]

Marcia,

I have to say that I love to hear breeders making that recommendation rather than telling people what dope to give their animals without knowing what they have.

The other day I inquired about a pictus. The breeder offered me two "free" ones, I'd pay just shipping. One was a gravid female (eggbound for over a month), the other could not shed easily. Horrified, I offered to take them just to try to care for the poor things, since the guy was obviously reluctant to treat them. I guess he felt guilty enough to change his mind about giving me animals that had never seen a vet. I can only hope they aren't dead from neglect.

You sound like a trustworthy breeder that not only sells but also loves her animals, and I've already bookmarked your page

And yes, Sandy. Especially if you have other animals please have your leos tested and checked. Obviously you are concerned because they aren't acting normal. They may be suffering with an illness rather than going through some seasonal pattern...

And what is worse, your other animals or even YOU could get infected

 

[humpbacks1962]

Well, my girl started chasing some crickets today. I am still feeding her Marcia's recipe but since her tummy was impacted by the massive amount of pinworm eggs and so irritated, I held off the Ensure and mealworms.

I ground up gutloaded crickets, Gerber's baby squash, Pedialyte, Hill's ground beef food, gecko powder vitamins and liquid calcium the vet gave me. She will lick off small amounts, and I take advantage of the times she opens her mouth to squirt some more in with a baby syringe. She'll take altogether about two drops. Instead of water in her bowl, I leave Pedialyte for her to drink.

I think she will recover, and finally see her perking up a little. She still has to ingest two more doses of Panacur in the next two weeks. She really calms down when I hold her in my fist to feed her! She looks so cute with her headsie resting on my thumb...

That recipe is the best thing ever. It nourishes my lizard and does not irritate her tummy. She is still passing liquid stools but has not regurgitated once on that diet! So she is keeping some nutrients as she recovers. I am sooo positive that she'll be OK

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

YAY!!!

That's great! That special slurry has saved so many leopard gecko's lives... they are using it at UC Davis, Texas A&M, and the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada with great success. I am soooo glad your little one is hungry, and with the proper treatment for her parasites and lots of TLC it sounds encouraging that she will make a full recovery!

 

[ShannanD25]

Wanda,

As soon as you receive those Pictus get them to the vet. The one time I took another breeder up on a hey, I'll throw in a "skinny from breeding" Leo with your order, it turned out to be a hookworm infested nightmare that several trips to the vet, a good deal of money, and lots of time, only resulted in it dying.
I commend you for wanting to resuce them but expect them to die. That way when they survive, it will be a great feeling. I have also done just straight rescues where people offer them for free and I only pay shipping. So far I have had little to no luck.
I did receive a few geckos from a friend kinda as a rescue, but they came from a good person-good breeder-responsible breeder so I had no problem taking them in.

It bothers me when breeders advertise a rep for sale and then offer to throw in a skinny one, or ill one. If they don't have the time, or money to treat it themself, then they have no right being in this business. It doesn't make sense. If you have a picture perfect rep for sale, how can you offer to throw in a sick one? It makes the "health" of your animals questionable. We have all had sick critters before, but to pass them off as someone else's problem is just wrong. Sorry, done ranting. I am still sore about that little PA I couldn't save.

Between my reps and "normal" household pets, I think I have funded my vets retirement....

Also,
My vet has told me that crickets can not carry parasites such as pin/hook worm...Yet I have heard different. Anyone know more about this? I always worry that my crickets could be infected with something. I am trying to get them over to only mealies/supers and roaches but some are just stubborn....