Rozann,
I agree with a lot of what you say, but I am not too certain that this does not belong on the BOI. I did think it belonged elsewhere for a while but now am not so sure. I have been going back and forth on that issue a lot. I do think the original post never should have been allowed in the BOI, but once this thing took off it made me think that the BOI may be the best place for it. The reason I feel this way is because of a saying:
What goes around - comes around....
and man oh man did it ever come around in this thread to bite Evan right in his butt as I see it. I think there is quite a bit of justice in that. To the great majority of people, I believe, Evan seems like the real bad guy here and that probably includes even those who think the terse email from simply snakes was not warranted. The BOI does not necessarily have to be an inquiry of someone, it can also be a place to post good guy or bad guy posts. I think that in the apparent frenzy of anger, that in my opinion Evan went through, he has accomplished showing a side of him that many sellers and buyers would probably never want to get wind of in their 'general direction' (to borrow from the Frenchman in Monty Python and the Search For The Holy Grail).
The thing I don't like to see is that this got put on the BOI and possibly did some damage to simply snakes who may have had a bad day and gave one not so nice curt answer that led to this hodgepodge of vindictiveness, criticism, support and sympathy. I do not know Evan or the people from simply snakes from a hole in the wall (to borrow from my mother - never quite knew what that referred to), but I think if anyone has gotten the short end of it, it has been simply snakes. This, I think, would likely have been better posted under the whatever it is called forum dealing with whatever pisses people off, or even under general business discussions. Yet as I said - there certainly seems to be some sort of doling out of justice in all of this toward the original poster that I truly believe he will feel in the long run, quite possibly as a loss in some business. I certainly don't think Evan will gain many new customers from among faunaclassified users after they read this thread; and the BOI is the most visited forum on this site (isn't it). In that regard Rich may be quite right to leave it here.
Rich is also right about learning something - although I'll agree I would have learned it just as well on any other forum. I learned something: I'll never buy from or sell to Evan because I would not want to be subjected to, what in my opinion, was a crazily vindictive outburst the likes of which he directed at simply snakes. I might buy from simply snakes but certainly not based on Mr. Pippin's account of what great people are the owners. His support of them, even if asked for by simply snakes does not make me think less of them; however I certainly do not think highly of Mr. Pippin after reading his posts. I see nothing wrong with someone asking a satisfied customer for support - after all many of the yahoos (myself included) who frequent this uproarious site often ask for proof. It is too bad we never know just exactly what someone, whom we have asked for help, will say. Just think of that cop in the OJ trial who swore he had never said n-----. Was it wrong for the prosecuting attorney to put him on the stand - heck no - at least not knowing what little they knew beforehand. It was wrong for him to lie, and he should have been right up front with the District Attorney before he ever took the stand, then he never would have testified. Hindsight is better than 20/20 it is binocular to the extreme.
This next is not for everyone, but is for some of you and you guys will have to figure out whom among you fits this bill. To those of you who would fault someone who gets put down on this site and then asks satisfied customers for support, let me say:
The proof is in the pudding, and when it is offered to you after you asked for it - you have gotta eat it - otherwise you are a real hypocrite.
I see that some of the same people who complain about not seeing proof in many other threads are also some of the same ones who scream for it. Testimony can amount to proof in any court - so why not here in the BOI. Please don't confuse testimony with hearsay as is often done here on the BOI by some (although even hearsay is often acceptable as evidence in civil and criminal proceedings - believe I know). If John Doe says that Mr. X has always treated him well as one of his customers that is testimonial evidence not hearsay. There is nothing wrong with that evidence, and as the jury you are tasked with believing it or not as you choose. Remember too that testimonial evidence can also be backed up by hard cold physical evidence such as documentary evidence or other records but it does not have to be backed up by anything of the sort to be valid evidence.
Now backup a bit - as for a guy who gets a bad guy post asking customers for help: Heck when Gerry Tubbs allegedly screwed a bunch of people he made me a great deal with which I was extremely satisfied. So what was I supposed to do when he told me he was getting slammed on the original BOI? Was I to say screw you Gerry and let him hang, or was I too be a loyal customer and lend my support - at least until he was proven to be a real stinker. He actually asked if I would not mind putting in a good word for him (and just a note on timing I bought from him quite a while before many people started to accuse him of being a crook as I remember). Was there really anything wrong with his asking? Looking at this objectively, can you really say there was something wrong with me telling people he gave me a good deal. He was trying to present his side with his evidence, and I was glad to supply it because I was a happy customer of his. What would you guys rather it be - would a real kangaroo court, as some claim is the BOI, be better.
So I don't think that someone who asks for help should get a black mark because he asked someone to support him. I think that person deserves an A plus for effort so long as it is being done with truthfulness and honesty. Also bear in mind that when someone comes to this site and registers just to help out a friend it is not necessarily because he was asked to do so! It amazes me how some of you jumped to the conclusion that this is what happened (and of course I too jump to conclusions). Could it not just as easily been that the owner of simply snakes discussed this matter with a friend or a customer - and then the friend or customer decided to play the white knight and help out (and I am not specifically talking about the wonderful person who called us Morons and all those other things even though this could possibly even include him). In fact it did not even have to be the owner of simply snakes (Rob and his wife I think - sorry I am bad on names) who told the white knight type about the thread - it could have been another customer of simply snakes, it could have been one of their children talking to a friend, it could have been somebody unrelated at all who told a fellow herp club member and the guy says holy cow I know them they are great people, I am going to help them out. Lots of possibilities, to many to jump to a very narrow minded conclusion, don't you think?
Now if it turns out that Mr. Pippin is the same guy who runs simply snakes, well shame on him, but I too think it kind of looked like someone else's writing style - someone who I would really rather not see any more posted from or about! So if that is you please stop posting and go back to your own site. Heck what do you wanna do give Ritchie a coronary (actually if it was who I think it was then yes that is probably what he wants to do). I certainly think nobody else here wants to see that. Otherwise, if you are actually a guy named Mr. Pippin, well then let me say, in my opinion, you have a lot of growing up to do.
Best regards,
Glenn Bartley
