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Skinny baby ball - advice needed

J

jayefbe

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Ok, I posted about this albino male a few days ago, but am growing more concerned. He still hasn't fed, but what really concerns me is that he is looking very thin. In fact, he came in at 41 grams, and is currently (1 week later) at 37. His spine is quite apparent and he does have folded skin, definitely not your typical ball python look.

To reiterate what has been said in the other post, according to the breeder he was born on 8/24 and has had 4 meals. He was supposed to be feeding on live hoppers when he arrived.

At this point he already looks worse than when he arrived. I'm wondering if he is dehydrated, merely stressed or if something worse could be happening. Any advice? I'm torn between trying to do everything I can possibly do to keep him in good health and up to a good weight, and trying not to stress him out. At what point should I consider assist-feeding an option? Would a electrolyte/nutrient liquid feeding be helpful or just worsen the situation?
Thanks.
 
First two pictures were sent by the breeder. Second two were taken tonight, 6 days after arrival.
 

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Hm, not that it probably matters....but the first picture isn't even of the same snake as the others.

He does look pretty rough, have you tried giving him a good soak to help hydrate him? And I don't remember, when was the last time you tried to feed him?
 
I have not tried giving him a good soak yet, but I'll probably give him one tonight. I tried feeding him again last night per the suggestions of a friend. He has a lot of experience working with baby rosy boas, and suggested a feeding method that always works well with him. He said to brain a small mouse and rub the grey matter all over its face. Let it sit for a bit to dry, then place its face in warm water. Place the mouse over the head of the snake so that a bit of the water drips over the snakes face/mouth area. Apparently it works wonders for stubborn rosies, but needless to say, it didn't work last night.
 
37 grams? You'd better contact the breeder~ your about to lose that baby. Have you tried leaving a live fuzzy rat or hopper mouse in the tub with him overnight? If that doesn't work~ kill a fuzzy mouse (fresh is better than F/T for this~ the hair is stiffer and catches easier in the snakes mouth)~ Calmly with as little extra motion and fuss as possible open the snakes mouth (you can usually hold the snake firmly in one hand and use the nose of the dead fuzzy to open the snakes mouth) and catch the head of the fuzzy on the snakes teeth. Then be VERY STILL and wait~ they often will go ahead and swallow the fuzzy once they give up trying to shake it off their teeth.
 
(I'm the girlfriend who bought this snake for Josh)

I called the breeder, and he said that the snake had no problems eating live mouse fuzzies, and was surprised that he wasn't eating. He suggested assist feeding, but also said I could mash up a pinkie with some gatorade and tube feed him if that doesn't work.

If he refuses food again when we try assist feeding, should I try tubing him a pinkie? Would that be too risky or stressful? Could I substitute lactated ringer's solution for gatorade to get those electrolytes, or will soaking him be enough to help with the dehydration?

Sorry for so many questions, we're just starting to get really worried.
 
Cat_72 said:
He does look pretty rough, have you tried giving him a good soak to help hydrate him? And I don't remember, when was the last time you tried to feed him?
Click to expand...

We haven't soaked him yet. The last time we tried feeding was last night - FT brained mouse fuzzy.

In the past week: 2 live mouse hoppers, 1 live mouse fuzzy, 1 FT rat pup (normal and then brained), FT brained mouse fuzzy.

He looked interested for most of them, obviously sensing and wanting food, but couldnt seem to figure out that the food was right in front of his face.
 
At this point I would try Cheryl's suggestion... it does work. It may take two or more "assist" feeds, but I haven't seen it fail yet.

Kevin (NERD's) breeding book, outlined the steps (with pictures) so clearly..that's how I learned.
 
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zoemeow said:
We haven't soaked him yet. The last time we tried feeding was last night - FT brained mouse fuzzy.

In the past week: 2 live mouse hoppers, 1 live mouse fuzzy, 1 FT rat pup (normal and then brained), FT brained mouse fuzzy.

He looked interested for most of them, obviously sensing and wanting food, but couldnt seem to figure out that the food was right in front of his face.
Click to expand...


Are you (or him) standing by waiting for it to eat, or are you leaving it alone in perfect dark and quiet to eat in privacy? Some will not eat until they adjust to their surroundings..some will not eat until they feel perfectly safe.

What kind of set up is it in?
 
deborahbroadus said:
Are you (or him) standing by waiting for it to eat, or are you leaving it alone in perfect dark and quiet to eat in privacy? Some will not eat until they adjust to their surroundings..some will not eat until they feel perfectly safe.

What kind of set up is it in?
Click to expand...

He's in a 6qt rubbermaid container with aspen bedding and a hide box. Heat tape underneath, 90 degrees on the hot side, 74 on the cool side (he had just spilled his water, so it might be more than that normally).

He's in a closet, so it's dark and quiet. We left them all alone with him, but checked every once in a while to see if he'd eaten. The live hoppers only for a couple hours because we didnt want them to bite him, the live fuzzy all day and part of the night, and the FT ones from a few hours to overnight. We also tried wiggling them in front of his face, but he still didn't seem to understand what he was supposed to do with them.
 
zoemeow said:
He's in a 6qt rubbermaid container with aspen bedding and a hide box. Heat tape underneath, 90 degrees on the hot side, 74 on the cool side (he had just spilled his water, so it might be more than that normally).

He's in a closet, so it's dark and quiet. We left them all alone with him, but checked every once in a while to see if he'd eaten. The live hoppers only for a couple hours because we didnt want them to bite him, the live fuzzy all day and part of the night, and the FT ones from a few hours to overnight. We also tried wiggling them in front of his face, but he still didn't seem to understand what he was supposed to do with them.
Click to expand...


May have been a good idea to include a link from the original post so that people could be better informed of the situation.

How long after you got it was a feeding attempt made? Also I am assuming that there is a thermostat on the heat since you stated the temps?
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. The heat tape was hooked up to a thermostat, but it was not doing an adequate job. Each heat tape is now hooked up to it's own dimmer, and the temperature has been checked regularly with a temp gun and has remained stable.

I tried feeding him the day after he arrived. To be honest, I would not have tried to entice him with food if he wasn't so small. After we weighed him I thought he was just way too small so while I normally would have waited longer between feed attempts I was worried that there may not be that much time. He's also lost 10% of his body weight since arriving, so assist feeding is looking to be necessary at this point.
 
I'm going to agree that it might be a good idea to try an assist feed.

I'm really kind of wondering who the breeder is on this one....if he/she was so surprised that it hadn't eaten for you yet would tell you that you could "mash up a pinky with Gatorade and tube feed it" really seems a bit, um....odd.

Good luck....let us know how things go. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
 
Cat_72 said:
I'm going to agree that it might be a good idea to try an assist feed.

I'm really kind of wondering who the breeder is on this one....if he/she was so surprised that it hadn't eaten for you yet would tell you that you could "mash up a pinky with Gatorade and tube feed it" really seems a bit, um....odd.

Good luck....let us know how things go. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Click to expand...

Depending on how this turns out, you will probably find out. He told my girlfriend that he had a het albino from this clutch that has only eaten once! Things just are not adding up, and I'm extremely frustrated and stressed out about this.

I just don't know why someone would think that a 2-month old at 41 grams was acceptable to sell. Plus, while that one picture of a different snake could be purely accidental (I didn't notice it was a different one initially), it is interesting.
 
jayefbe said:
Depending on how this turns out, you will probably find out. He told my girlfriend that he had a het albino from this clutch that has only eaten once! Things just are not adding up, and I'm extremely frustrated and stressed out about this.

I just don't know why someone would think that a 2-month old at 41 grams was acceptable to sell. Plus, while that one picture of a different snake could be purely accidental (I didn't notice it was a different one initially), it is interesting.
Click to expand...

Completely agreed....and if it HAD been slow to start eating, but had taken off eating for them recently, I would think that should have been disclosed to you. Even at that, it seems crappy to ship out a snake that is still that small, eating or not.

And tube feeding is VERY stressful, and can actually do more harm than good if not done right. If it comes to that, do you have access to a good herp vet that could do it for you?
 
Ok, so it took a couple tries, and it was not fun, but we got him to take a fuzzy mouse. Thanks a LOT for the help and advice.

Per the advice of a breeder, I'm going to offer him live mice every five days, and if he refuses do the assist feeding thing until he gets going on his own. Hopefully the worst is over now.
 
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