Smoothies

[walker75]

Do you own a "Normal" or an Altered?
What gives you the right to say whats right or wrong?
I myself will put myself in the middle of things and say I am in the works of producing these. Do I see a lot of mixxed emotions?
Yes I do.
Is it for everyone?
Hell NO.

To each their own.

Jim

Jim

Please reframe from swearing if possible.. I thought you would be in here saying you also are involved in this new Mutation of the bearded dragon know as the silkback..

Since you are in business and a importer of Dachiu Dragons I WILL say that I already have an altered dragon it is known as an Adeno Positive Dragon and a Carrier . If breed he will pass this on.

Not all dragons are positive for Adeno this we know.. yes we do...

 

[Tere Salazar]

Tere.
You wanna go there?
What color are you dragons? Were they not selectivly bred to be the color you wanted? Are you telling me that to get what you wanted there was not inbreeding to accomplish your desire?
Dont preach to me when you are all guilty!

If you dont like it say that. Dont try and downplay one thing and make another look bad. Really, think about what all is out there and come to a conclusion. I deal with ALL types of morphs in every reptile you could imagine.
What makes one worse then the other?

Jim

Ummm...I think the only thing I said about inbreeding is that we were told an inbred dragon had increased risk of contracting Adenovirus, amongst other issues.

There is no comparison between a colored regular bearded dragon and a silkback. Colored regular bearded dragons can bask, breed, have things in their cages, and THEIR SKIN WON'T RIP OPEN!!!!!! How does that compare at all to a silkback? Did I totally miss out on something here?

Oh...and one other thing. The only thing I'm guilty of is trying to have healthy, happy beardies. It's not me producing these mutations.

 

[Denisebme]

Tere.
You wanna go there?
What color are you dragons? Were they not selectivly bred to be the color you wanted? Are you telling me that to get what you wanted there was not inbreeding to accomplish your desire?
Dont preach to me when you are all guilty!

If you dont like it say that. Dont try and downplay one thing and make another look bad. Really, think about what all is out there and come to a conclusion. I deal with ALL types of morphs in every reptile you could imagine.
What makes one worse then the other?

Jim

Selective breeding for color quality is not the same thing, and most of us here have been doing this long enough to know that.
Its a whole different ball game to exploit a genetic mutation that significantly alters naturally established genetic traits.
Personally, I won't deal with any morph that has been significantly inbred to achieve because of the health implications in doing so. I did buy a few early on from the Hypo lines, but I no longer breed them, and I stopped as soon as I learned how they were created.

 

[walker75]

My goodness!
DO YOU NEED A SILK TO PRODUCE A SILK?

If you can answer this you have read about them. Has it even been proven a silk is even sterile?
You guys are going off again without even talking to the people working with these animals. You know what! Be the way youre going to be. Dont ask those who know. Judge and Jury right.

Ignorance is a pathetic excuse.

Jim.

The answer Is NO You do not

 

[Denisebme]

My goodness!
DO YOU NEED A SILK TO PRODUCE A SILK?

If you can answer this you have read about them. Has it even been proven a silk is even sterile?
You guys are going off again without even talking to the people working with these animals. You know what! Be the way youre going to be. Dont ask those who know. Judge and Jury right.

Ignorance is a pathetic excuse.

Jim.

Yes Jim, ignorance is a pathetic excuse.
The answer to your questions is NO, you do not need to breed two of these mutants together to produce more mutants BUT, in order to stabilize the genetics and produce them with more frequency, someone will eventually try to breed them, and probably in the not to distant future. Its just common sense that people aren't going to spend significant amounts of money on one of these creatures and not try to reproduce it just as there is no doubt that the people purchasing these to "work" with the lines will also be attempting to breed them at some point.

 

[JimD]

So your Hypo, Leucistic, Translucent or solid RED had nothing to do with genetics?
Come on! If you guys read whats out there you know there isnt a lot of difference.
You take a certain dragon and breed it with another dragon youre going to get something. Whether you like it or not, its going to happen.
Hate it or love it, you still love your red or orange baby dont you?

Jim

 

[whiskersmom]

Ignorance is a pathetic excuse.
Jim.

Yes......Jim.....it is.


And there's no way that you lay persons can tell me that you have scientifically performed studies on these animals. Which one of you is a Zoologist, perhaps a biologist? Anything that can qualify you as someone worthy of studying these animals. And who asked you to do this, did you receive a grant?
Quit with the "studies" you people aren't qualified to study these mutations.

You asked in an earlier post "What gives you the right to say whats right or wrong" well.....what gives you the right?

 

[Denisebme]

So your Hypo, Leucistic, Translucent or solid RED had nothing to do with genetics?
Come on! If you guys read whats out there you know there isnt a lot of difference.
You take a certain dragon and breed it with another dragon youre going to get something. Whether you like it or not, its going to happen.
Hate it or love it, you still love your red or orange baby dont you?

Jim

I work with Red and Orange lines, and yes, it has everything to do with genetics. The difference is clear though, in working with my lines, I do everything possible to insure that I am neither line breeding or inbreeding. I'm not changing the natural characteristics of the animal by choosing its mate based on color quality.
There are different natural color phases Jim, and working specifically for color is not the same as monkeying with the genetics to the point where you significantly alter the very characteristics that make it a BEARDED DRAGON to begin with.

 

[Denisebme]

Yes......Jim.....it is.


And there's no way that you lay persons can tell me that you have scientifically performed studies on these animals. Which one of you is a Zoologist, perhaps a biologist? Anything that can qualify you as someone worthy of studying these animals. And who asked you to do this, did you receive a grant?
Quit with the "studies" you people aren't qualified to study these mutations.

You asked in an earlier post "What gives you the right to say whats right or wrong" well.....what gives you the right?

Exactly. What experience do any of them have in Veterinary genetics? How exactly are they studying and tracking the various issues that could arise with these animals? What marker of DNA is altered to produce them, and what other natural traits are affected by this mutation in the DNA? What controls are used to insure that no harm is done to these animals?
Whose standards decide how far is to far? Who do you answer to when something goes wrong?
This is way different than say, two blond people marrying so they could have pretty little blond children. This is breeding to significantly alter the natural genetic traits of an animal to the point that it barely resembles its own species.

 

[Tere Salazar]

You guys are going off again without even talking to the people working with these animals. You know what! Be the way youre going to be. Dont ask those who know. Judge and Jury right.
Jim.

By this, I'm assuming the brainwashing phone calls are going to resume? Girls, get your ears ready.

 

[JimD]

You want to go there again?
Why dont you droids ask your CheriS where all the dragons around came from? Do you really want me to go back and find her posts about where almost all dragons came from and where they are now? There were not a lot introduced into North America,

Keep it coming. I do my research before I come and join your bitchfests. One tract minds are so yesterday. Look at tomorrow. Its such a nice day out.

Jim

 

[Denisebme]

You want to go there again?
Why dont you droids ask your CheriS where all the dragons around came from? Do you really want me to go back and find her posts about where almost all dragons came from and where they are now? There were not a lot introduced into North America,

Keep it coming. I do my research before I come and join your bitchfests. One tract minds are so yesterday. Look at tomorrow. Its such a nice day out.

Jim

Exactly WHAT research have you done Jim?
Have to talked to a geneticist about the implications of this specific mutation? Do you know what DNA marker has been damaged and what other traits it affects?

I'm sure its occured at some point to the parent of a teenager that maybe we should genetically alter them so their vocal chords don't develop until they are college age, but it would be illegal for us to do so because we aren't allowed to play God with human genetics.

 

[JimD]

Awww Tere.
Cant handle this on your own. Have any test results yet? I can show you one from within a month ago from a dragon that passed away. My Vet knew I was very adament to have AV testing done.
Awwwww pooo! A lot of my Dragons came from Dachiu! I must have AV!!!

Came back negative!!!!!!!

How are your tests??

Jim

 

[Tere Salazar]

Awww Tere.
Cant handle this on your own. Have any test results yet? I can show you one from within a month ago from a dragon that passed away. My Vet knew I was very adament to have AV testing done.
Awwwww pooo! A lot of my Dragons came from Dachiu! I must have AV!!!

Came back negative!!!!!!!

How are your tests??

Jim

Can't handle my own what? And yeah, asshole, I got my results back...and some dead dragons to show for it. Could you be any more cold-hearted?

 

[Denisebme]

Awww Tere.
Cant handle this on your own. Have any test results yet? I can show you one from within a month ago from a dragon that passed away. My Vet knew I was very adament to have AV testing done.
Awwwww pooo! A lot of my Dragons came from Dachiu! I must have AV!!!

Came back negative!!!!!!!

How are your tests??

Jim

Is there a reason you are being so nasty Jim?

 

[whiskersmom]

You keep assuming that you are the only one who has done their research. Just because our research takes us in a different direction doesn't mean we didn't research.

Please quit calling names...droids isn't a very nice name, if that's how you debate, then I guess you need to do some more researching.

So by following your line of reasoning you are saying that because people way back when bred for color and because we own a dragon that has color, then we shouldn't be opposed of the products coming out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab -rhetorical again- because if that is your way of thinking then you have brainwashed yourself. Color is one thing, absence of scales and a different way of life is another. And I feel sorry for you that you can't see it.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Is there a reason you are being so nasty Jim?

Yeah...we're getting in the way of his paycheck. Explains a lot, huh?

 

[Denisebme]

You keep assuming that you are the only one who has done their research. Just because our research takes us in a different direction doesn't mean we didn't research.

Please quit calling names...droids isn't a very nice name, if that's how you debate, then I guess you need to do some more researching.

So by following your line of reasoning you are saying that because people way back when bred for color and because we own a dragon that has color, then we shouldn't be opposed of the products coming out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab -rhetorical again- because if that is your way of thinking then you have brainwashed yourself. Color is one thing, absence of scales and a different way of life is another. And I feel sorry for you that you can't see it.

On the Canadian Forum that Jim so helpfully provided a link for, he himself points out that these Beardies skin is very similar to that of pinky mice. Even pinkies grow hair to protect them as they age, but these beardies have NO natural defenses.

 

[whiskersmom]

Awww Tere.
Cant handle this on your own. Have any test results yet? I can show you one from within a month ago from a dragon that passed away. My Vet knew I was very adament to have AV testing done.
Awwwww pooo! A lot of my Dragons came from Dachiu! I must have AV!!!

Came back negative!!!!!!!

How are your tests??

Jim

How dare you do this? Who do you think you are? Losing dragons may not be a big deal to you and your friends but to the majority and I do mean majority, of us, we care.
You're a hateful man and you resort to cruelty when you can't make people sway your way.....but I noticed you are much more docile when talking to the men........what's that?

 

[Denisebme]

Yeah...we're getting in the way of his paycheck. Explains a lot, huh?

I personally think its disgusting that anyone would make light of the death of a much loved pet. It does say a lot about his character though.