Status check and poll on recent crack down

[Cat_72]

The poll perhaps would not be pointless, if there was a vast majority in favor of one thing or another. But the point IS...there isn't a large majority either way. And the idea of a poll is simply to gather opinions.

 

[Chameleon Company]

In response to both HERS and CAT 72

My sympathies within this thread are known, but I would like to lend a thought to each of your points:

HERS writes:
Silly me, I thought that the object of a poll was to have a democracy, where the majority vote was the outcome.

As you likely now, if it were a ballot referundum issue, where the law said that majority vote made it a new law, then of course. I know that you did not mean to assume that it was, and that we were more informal here. But just plain "majority rule" democracy is nothing more than mob rule. We live in a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy. Like it or not, Rich is our elected representative, as we voted him there ( or accepted his position) when we paid to play. I hope that my thoughts to Cat help modify things.

CAT 72 writes:
The poll perhaps would not be pointless, if there was a vast majority in favor of one thing or another. But the point IS...there isn't a large majority either way. And the idea of a poll is simply to gather opinions.

I don't think that a "vast majority", or "mandate" as Rich put it, need be the tripwire. Certainly an 80-20 ratio would cause greater concern. But that is not to dismiss a 50-50 as being not of concern. Because of the way that the question was posed in the poll, I do not believe that a conclusion can be drawn that would negate the poll results as not having value as indicating a possible need for change. Without proposing a solution, one could look at the results and at least ask "Is their a way to enact a change that would pacify many of those in the group that wanted some change, and not alienate those that were in approval of the current status quo"? I am not saying that there is a solution, but only that the poll would indicate a need to look for one on that area. To at least consider that, and I do not pretend to assume that Rich has not, would give value to the poll, and to the efforts made by those who participated in it. My own opinion is somewhat as Rich has stated earlier, that for every problem he solves, he will likely create another.

 

[Cat_72]

I don't think that a "vast majority", or "mandate" as Rich put it, need be the tripwire. Certainly an 80-20 ratio would cause greater concern. But that is not to dismiss a 50-50 as being not of concern. Because of the way that the question was posed in the poll, I do not believe that a conclusion can be drawn that would negate the poll results as not having value as indicating a possible need for change. Without proposing a solution, one could look at the results and at least ask "Is their a way to enact a change that would pacify many of those in the group that wanted some change, and not alienate those that were in approval of the current status quo"? I am not saying that there is a solution, but only that the poll would indicate a need to look for one on that area. To at least consider that, and I do not pretend to assume that Rich has not, would give value to the poll, and to the efforts made by those who participated in it. My own opinion is somewhat as Rich has stated earlier, that for every problem he solves, he will likely create another.

Um.....I think that's what I meant to say. LOL.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Cat,
I think I agree ... I just had a few more minutes to write. Cest and access, OK ! LOL

 

[WebSlave]

Actually this site is neither a Democracy or a Democratic Republic. It is a benign (I hope....) Dictatorship. You can't vote me out of office, or have a majority forcibly overrule my decisions. The only power you have is to stay or leave. The only power I have over you is to allow you to stay or force you to leave. But since being a dictator of a country with no one living there is kind of senseless, I try my best to make decisions that won't cause everyone to move out.

I am interested in feedback from people about what I do here for them. But I am not obligated in any way to do anything they want me to. But as I wish for this "country" to survive, it is in my and everyone else's best interests if I try to do what is best. Sometimes I have to do things that may be unpopular, not because I know what is best, but because I think it may be best and just hope I am right. When I put up a poll for guidance, it is not because I think a majority may be right. It is because I want to see what a majority may want, right or wrong (in my opinion). That meaning that it is entirely possible that a majority may have different ideas then I do about where this site should be heading. But since I am the dictator here, I may decide to try it my way, regardless of what other people want, just because I can, and who knows? Maybe the long shot may work out after all.

Honestly, if the majority rule thing worked all of the time, it would be a simple matter to become a billionaire at the race track by simply betting on the horse that the most people were betting on. Personally, I don't think that will work at all.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well, since Rich mentioned the viability of HELL in this thread, and I had also previously compared it to prostitution, I will address those defenses of it made by others, as well as the requests for more to join.

While meant somewhat figuratively, it is called HELL for a reason, and not HEAVEN. It is viewed by many members here to reflect the "lower strata", and that has been stated in other posts in this forum. Even so, Rich says that 30-odd folks have paid to be there. That seems to have surprised Rich, and was unexpected, and I claim some dismay at that fact as well. I see it as a wayward place to spend time, and again as pointed out by others, a disappointing experience. A place to be "down and out", or hasten such. A physicist's validation of the term "down and out" would be the constants of gravity and entropy, against which forces of opposition must constantly be applied if to maintain order. We all make considerable efforts daily to avoid the constant pull of "down and out" in all that we do, or disorder will certainly prevail. "To dust" is my inevitable end, but only after I am no longer able to apply resistance. So why do I want to pay for something that I otherwise expend effort to resist daily? And which is a free consequence of not trying otherwise? As for what is said there, I have my ability to view it when I choose through a member. I have also avoided it, as other members have, because it is a depressing place, a place where things are devalued. Sorry, but the $10 that I keep at the ready in PayPal is for my next slip-of-the-tongue! Besides, what would Wendy think?

 

[NiCoLe L RuSSeLL]

It's memberships are new yet...see what happens in the long run.
At first it's a novelty. You do get sick of that atmosphere though unless you have a very specific personality type.
One of two things will most likely happen:
1)It will fizzle out on it's own
2)It will become the "Australia" of the site (no offense meant to Oz--no one loves the present day place as much as I do---I'm referring to it's original history)...and may serve a purpose. If it keeps those personality types happy perhaps the rest of your forums will stay cleaner.
Either way it can't hurt.
Unless ....the site becomes known for Hell more then anything else....then you would have a problem....but somehow I dont think Rich will let that happen.

 

[WebSlave]

Unless ....the site becomes known for Hell more then anything else....then you would have a problem....but somehow I dont think Rich will let that happen.

No, I don't think that would happen. But then again, I have been surprised at what people will pay to have entertainment, and the type of entertainment they are willing to actually pay for.

 

[NiCoLe L RuSSeLL]

I say give this 2 years --that's 2 payments---to see who is staying and who is leaving...at that point some roots will b made if they take at all.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Jim,

HELL is what it is. People who pay to post there have different interests compared to those that don’t. The key word is different; not wrong, not right, just plain different. Do I think less of people who like to spend their time and money there? Nope, it’s simply that they find entertainment value in something I don’t. As far as me paying for being there? Not a chance in…well you get the point . In the past and when it was free I visited it every now and that was enough of a sample. To be honest I read some of the threads and didn’t find it funny or amusing. What had sparked my curiosity was to know how many people had paid. When I asked a member that question (don’t remember who right now) he told me that I should become a member and check for myself. Yes, I was curious but not enough to pay $10, and now thanks to Rich I know the answer anyways. When Rich announced the concept of HELL I voiced my concern. My thought was that it was not adding something of substance to the site. The idea of having granting access to only those that pay was a good one.

Regards

 

[NiCoLe L RuSSeLL]

The idea of having granting access to only those that pay was a good one.

Regards

I totally agree. If you have to have this forum at all--have it under these terms.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dan, I understand your opinion.

Boidsmith writes:
......The key word is different; not wrong, not right, just plain different. Do I think less of people who like to spend their time and money there? Nope, it’s simply that they find entertainment value in something I don’t ......

And am sure that it works for you and others (your opinion that is, not HELL). However, some of us see it as more than different. You are likely aware of another respected poster's comments in a similar thread after he first visited it. His comment was that his respect for certain other members, whom he had held in higher regard, fell to disappointing levels. He now thought less of them. In my view, he need not justify his views, any more than you need explain yours. The result was as it was, and is not the kind of thing to be debated away. Again, just IMO, but if I caught one of my four children playing there, much less having paid $10 to do it, I would not have a positive reaction. Whether it be the nature of his/her own posts, or just the "crowd they were keeping", I would hope that I handled it well, and not react too quickly. I would be disappointed, and would question where I had let them down. Hopefully my focus would be on ways to get them to want to "elevate their game". So, to each his own.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

And am sure that it works for you and others (your opinion that is, not HELL). However, some of us see it as more than different. You are likely aware of another respected poster's comments in a similar thread after he first visited it. His comment was that his respect for certain other members, whom he had held in higher regard, fell to disappointing levels. He now thought less of them. In my view, he need not justify his views, any more than you need explain yours. The result was as it was, and is not the kind of thing to be debated away. Again, just IMO, but if I caught one of my four children playing there, much less having paid $10 to do it, I would not have a positive reaction. Whether it be the nature of his/her own posts, or just the "crowd they were keeping", I would hope that I handled it well, and not react too quickly. I would be disappointed, and would question where I had let them down. Hopefully my focus would be on ways to get them to want to "elevate their game". So, to each his own.

"To each his own." That's a good statement actually. But in order to fulfill that statement properly would take being totally unbiased. This I do not pick up here. There is another saying that has been around even longer, and probably more important.........Judge not lest Ye be judged. This to me would be the meaning behind "to each his own."
As for your friend.....Did He take into account where He was at while reading? What the purpose of the forum is? Sounds a little like the Jock and Stoner issue back in high school, where one guy is part of the jocks clique, but when seen talking to a stoner, He all of a sudden was not good enough to be part of the "gang" anymore.
Who knows though, maybe I am way off here. But you sure seem to be against something that you are not even a part of. (scratching my head)
Anyway, don't mean to sound like I am arguing. Wasn't intended that way, just confused about it.

Rick

 

[The BoidSmith]

And am sure that it works for you and others (your opinion that is, not HELL). However, some of us see it as more than different. You are likely aware of another respected poster's comments in a similar thread after he first visited it. His comment was that his respect for certain other members, whom he had held in higher regard, fell to disappointing levels. He now thought less of them. In my view, he need not justify his views, any more than you need explain yours. The result was as it was, and is not the kind of thing to be debated away. Again, just IMO, but if I caught one of my four children playing there, much less having paid $10 to do it, I would not have a positive reaction. Whether it be the nature of his/her own posts, or just the "crowd they were keeping", I would hope that I handled it well, and not react too quickly. I would be disappointed, and would question where I had let them down. Hopefully my focus would be on ways to get them to want to "elevate their game". So, to each his own.

Jim,

Yes, I'm aware of that comment although I don’t remember who made it. In my visits to that forum I browsed through several threads. A few visits were enough to “sample” what was the main idea behind it, and that it was not how I wanted to spend my time. Yes, I do remember some of the people posting there but I’m perfectly honest when I say that I don’t remember who said what. That’s the relevance I assigned to what posted in there.

One thing we have to recognize though, those individuals that spend 4-5 hours of the day posting in HELL have 4-5 hours less in their “time budget” to post elsewhere. That might be good or bad for Fauna as a whole, depending on the individual and the degree of his/her contributions to this site.

Regards

 

[Dennis Hultman]

And am sure that it works for you and others (your opinion that is, not HELL). However, some of us see it as more than different. You are likely aware of another respected poster's comments in a similar thread after he first visited it. His comment was that his respect for certain other members, whom he had held in higher regard, fell to disappointing levels. He now thought less of them. In my view, he need not justify his views, any more than you need explain yours.

Jim, I also respect the comments of that individual but take note, he joined Hell and posted in a thread that was already overheated with people calling themselves names such as “Scumbag” and the like because they feel the same way you do, relaxing the penalties here. Seems to be some irony in that. The only difference is they were having issues with you as well.

I don’t believe I have even cursed one single time in Hell since it has become a paid forum.

You know,

Most of the people in Hell or also the people who contribute the most to this site, in ALL of the forums.
Some are forum sponsors and as far as I know, not a single person subscribed to Hell is a known bad guy.
Half the people (including Rich and the moderators) on the top ten Karma List, also have access to Hell and have posted there since paid membership went into place.

While some of the threads maybe raunchy and would not be my choice on how to express myself they’re following the rules at this time. When Hell was a moderated forum most followed the rules at that time as well.

I am not much for cursing but I can read without a problem.

It states right on the door-

An unmoderated verbal mud wrestling forum. This forum is ONLY accessible through a separate paid membership and threads are ONLY visible to subscribers. Cost is $10 per year. Parental discretion advised.

So what is in Hell. Hell has 13,871 posts. One Bad Guy thread that started on the BOI has 67,617 views and 324 posts that I don’t want to see just erased. There are the pissing duels but also threads with Bar Jokes, complaining about shippers, lawyers, and a host of different topics. Why are they there? Well most are because of the language used.

I don’t think I have any ill-will towards any of the members of Hell and like I said an earlier post, one of the main reasons to have access to that forum would include the threads from the BOI that were placed there under the original concept of that forum.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

in there.

One thing we have to recognize though, those individuals that spend 4-5 hours of the day posting in HELL have 4-5 hours less in their “time budget” to post elsewhere. That might be good or bad for Fauna as a whole, depending on the individual and the degree of his/her contributions to this site.

Regards

I don’t think anyone even spends an hour. I think we actually spend way too much time trying to tear down other members of this site.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

As far as the rules go, I guess that debate is over.

I don't have a problem living with them the way they are. I don't have a problem with the rules being scaled back some. In all honesty, I could live with it if it went back to the way it was. I’m not saying that would be my choice or desire. I wouldn’t prefer it. What I believe should happen is really irreverent but I am more inline with decreased penalties with first offences in particular.
However, I understand the direction Rich wants to go with this site. Hence, the rules are going to stay the way they are for now. At some point, he may scale back but as he has stated, it’s not happening now.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

I have to agree with Deniis, I doubt anyone has spent an hour posting in HELL -- UNLESS its the Three Word Story Thread and its a combined total of all post from beginning ot end.

Thing is there some plain old normal threads that the poster wanted to scream and yell a bit which is no longer allowed other places on fauna. Its not allowed to post HELL topics or post on other forums so I cannot give you the examples.

But me for one, when I need to scream yell and cuss about something reptile or fauna related or non reptile and fauna related I can.

 

[WebSlave]

Heck, I don't know what to think about HELL. Maybe people there just look at it as a refuge of some sort.

Now when I say it is "unmoderated", that is not exactly correct. I believe there are two (I don't remember any others) rules I have asked people to follow there.

1. No threats of physical violence to another person. Period.
2. Someone can discuss and argue with ME until we both get blue in the face, but HELL will not be a safe haven for someone to be derogatory or profane towards me. Call it "executive privilege" if you want, but I am not allocating bandwidth nor space on this site for someone to be able to do that. There are certainly other sites on the web where bashing me is not only very acceptable, but apparently in vogue, so go on over there for that sort of thing.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Heck, I don't know what to think about HELL. Maybe people there just look at it as a refuge of some sort.

That's exactly how some of us see it.