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Status check on health of this site.

WebSlave said:
No way around that. There is no guidebook out there called "How to Run FaunaClassifieds in the Best Way Possible." So I have to make decisions based on seat of the pants feelings about what previous changes have resulted in. How long is TOO LONG or TOO SHORT to wait to make a change? Should I wait for the tombstone to be carved or should I try to head that off if indications seem to indicate that a life saving change might be recommended?

When do you decide to go to the doctor? When you are feeling real lousy or when it requires someone else calling an ambulance to take you there? If you go when you are just feeling lousy, would you have died if you hadn't gone to the doctor's office? In most cases, no, but there is always that chance to worry about. And probably most people would prefer to get well sooner rather than later, if they believe that they can reasonably influence that outcome.....

Great point, you must have done a few things right, this site is very active and growing all the time. I don't see the deadness as the stats might suggest, there are always new posts and members that are actively posting on a bunch of different topics. As well as new members joining everyday.
 
varnyard said:
Harald, It was Bud, he was complaining to Rich for being attacked over his religion. :rolleyes:
Well, Bobby, if you go back and look at what I said - post 149, of this thread - then look at the post you are quoting (post #88, which was made on 11/03, at 12:52pm EST...just for the record), you may see that Bud is not actually making a declaration that he has chosen Jedi as his religion. (yes, he mentioned the words in the same sentence)
Now, just for giggles, jump over to the current Kingsnake thread on the BOI...and skip along to post # 108, this was posted on 11/2, at 10:22pm EST (do you see what I am getting at with the dates and times? The one on the Kingsnake thread was made first). To save you a little trouble, I'll throw it in here:
snake5007 said:
Jedi is actually a religion now. A load of star wars fans wrote down jedi as their religion on a certain form, so it actually became one. I don't remember what form it was. Beats me. :shrug01:
Now, what was my statement again??
You might want to save the eyeroll for a time when you are right.
 
How could I have been so wrong Harald, he did not imply it at all, correct? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
WebSlave said:
No way around that. There is no guidebook out there called "How to Run FaunaClassifieds in the Best Way Possible." So I have to make decisions based on seat of the pants feelings about what previous changes have resulted in. How long is TOO LONG or TOO SHORT to wait to make a change? Should I wait for the tombstone to be carved or should I try to head that off if indications seem to indicate that a life saving change might be recommended?

When do you decide to go to the doctor? When you are feeling real lousy or when it requires someone else calling an ambulance to take you there? If you go when you are just feeling lousy, would you have died if you hadn't gone to the doctor's office? In most cases, no, but there is always that chance to worry about. And probably most people would prefer to get well sooner rather than later, if they believe that they can reasonably influence that outcome.....

The allegories that you have mentioned are a very close comparison to what is going on now with Fauna, and to wax philosphical: Life is about change. Look around you, notice the seasons...everything in life is a work in progress. To refuse change or when change does occur complain instead of adjusting is to impede progress.

While it is true that not all change is good, it is nonetheless inevitable. How does one go about ensuring that the changes made are for the better? Only experimention can show us this. However, one thing that is certain is that to remain stagnant, to resist change, to believe that one is perfect as is and needs no adjustments is the first error of failed businesses.
 
While the above is a bit off topic (not your post, Deb), it is pertinent. There are an awful lot of ankle biters around here lately. Take our buddy, Rocket, for example, who (a couple of months ago) greeted a new member's question with this gem :
Why don't you do a little reading first? Would help you with the "I'm an idiot" thing.

Hope that doesn't sound pushy. If it does, sorry.
.
Other members, barking at anything that might be out of the ordinary...nipping if they think they see a weakness.
Just what is the reason behind the need to constantly be on the attack? Can't people share knowledge without the chest thumping. I'll admit that, like many, I have gotten frustrated on occasion,...and felt the desire/need to issue a bit of a smack.
In this case, Bobby, I knew you would be making some sort of comment - all I said was that somebody else made the statement that Jedi was a religion, and others jumped all over it. Yes, Bud used those words together in a later post...maybe it was in implication, maybe it wasn't. It doesn't change the accuracy of my statement (which you were so intent on proving wrong). Maybe he accepted it as his religion years ago, maybe he read that post and thought it was too good to pass on. Frankly, I don't care. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to hear that Bud saw the religion reference as a way to cut down on the ridicule and harsh comments. Naturally, we wouldn't accept the persecution of a "legitimate" religion....but who am I, who are you (or any other visitor to this site), to decide what is legitimate? Since when does religion, race, sexual orientation, etc have anything to do with reptiles and amphibians?
Can we not have civil conversations with people whose views we do not agree with (in other words, must there always be an attack? Leave the petty nonsense aside and focus on the reasons we are here: the animals.

So many people bring so much to the table. Its that ragged edge that causes problems. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting tired of it. I'm sick of watching people I would like to respect behave in that manner. I'm certainly unhappy with the response it brings about in me. I come to this site because I like it. When I first started posting, I wasn't sure what kind of response I would get - because I had read a number of threads. I saw people getting attacked, mostly on the BOI, and, yes, I was nervous about stepping in (shy as a rule, anyway, and a total newbie to online forums...I'm surprised I registered, lol).

Anyway, the point that is buried in this post, somewhere, is one that has been made before, and in other places. Just who are we benefitting from behaving in that manner? How many new members never come back after getting a response like the one quoted above? How many visitors opt not to register because of the way people treat one another? How much does this really have to do with the decreasing post counts? We've all heard references to "trial by fire" and "eating their young", but must it be so common...so extreme?
I've had some people that I had issues with at various times. In some instances, I extended the olive branch; in some, I accepted it. Sadly, there are still a few people that manage to tick me off on a regular basis. Generally, unless I feel the need to issue warnings for some flagrant violation, I try to let it slide by.

Believe it or not, I thought long and hard about whether I would address Bobby's post to me. Then came the decision about where to deal with it. Via PM, the moderator forum, Sound Off, HELL, here....obviously, I elected to do it here, but I suspect only a few understand why.
 
Harald

I so agree with you, we are here for the animals, and to help each other. I love this site, love the BOI for what is does for the hobby, and appreciate those that give their time and information to both experienced people and newbies alike.
I post a lot less than I used to, because of the ankle biters. I know I have a lot to contribute, but there are some that make it an effort for me to do so, instead of a joy as it once was.
Very perceptive post. I don't see any easy answers though.
 
This is true he has the choice to choose his beliefs, and so be it if you think it is legit. :shrug01: :ack2:

As for ankle biters, well there are a few crying wolf on that one that have been well known for doing the exact same thing. No need to point fingers, they know who they are.

:shootfoot
 
IMO, the snide comments, cheap shots, and other derogatory posts need to stop in the discussion forums and left to the BOI.

People need to remember that not everyone that posts here has the same experience as they do. Alot of new people come here looking for advice and if they get a snide comment when they ask a simple question, what was really accomplished? You can not force anyone to take your advice and derogatory comments will only put off others from joining the site and contributing in the discussion forums.
 
This is a reminder that there is a warning available to all WS mods for attacking members outside of the BOI.
 
LOL - Bobby, it has nothing to do with me believing he is legit. I don't give a darn. If a particular post of Bud's or Bruce's (or whoever's) has merit, I take it for what it is worth. If it is foolishness, I shake my head, mutter to myself, and move on. What is the point in chastising them for playing Star Wars? If it crosses a line, I intervene. The bottom line is, if there is a bit of ankle biting on the BOI, so be it...as long as it has some pertinence to the thread. If it is foolish banter, (like riding somebody's light saber), or more of the same BS attacks on people, or bickering on side topics, it needs to be reined in. The moderators shouldn't have to play mommy and daddy to so-called adults that can't seem to behave in a public forum....but it looks like that may be the only way some people will alter their behavior. (my thanks, at this time, to those that have acknowledged my attempts at redirection in the past)
When the nastiness overflows into the discussion forums, it has a more negative impact, and shouldn't be tolerated
 
WebSlave said:
This is a reminder that there is a warning available to all WS mods for attacking members outside of the BOI.
Yup...and its a 5 pointer, too. Possibly more, depending on who uses it.
 
WebSlave said:
This is a reminder that there is a warning available to all WS mods for attacking members outside of the BOI.
But does a smart ass comment or a snide remark directed at a newbie question rise to an attack? I can see the warning being used for stopping someone following another around the discussion forums and continuing a BOI thread there. But really, does the former rise to the point of being an attack? Maybe it does. Maybe we should be using it more often to stop that sort of thing. but I can already see it now, the whining and crying saying we are stiffling the freedom Fauna is kown for..lol :bandhead0
 
There is always "Overly Abusive to Another Member"...but then, how do we know when we have crossed that line from being just abusive enough to being overly abusive :shrug01:
Too many shades of grey.
 
To make it simple, imho, an attack is any snide, nasty remark that is given in response to an innocent question. It is an attack, because it prevents the exchange of ideas and information and stifles the desire of the questioner to ask any more questions for fear that the same person will reply again, and finally ensures that the person will spread futher bad impressions to his friends/aquaintances. (but that's just my opinion)
 
hhmoore said:
I elected to do it here, but I suspect only a few understand why.

Isnt that statement a bit hypocritical? Possibly even chest thumping that you are oh so more intelligent than all but a few, not to mention ankle biting everyone on this site with the exception of only a few?

Just teasing with ya Harald. Just having a little good natured fun pulling your chain.
 
DThomas said:
But does a smart ass comment or a snide remark directed at a newbie question rise to an attack? I can see the warning being used for stopping someone following another around the discussion forums and continuing a BOI thread there. But really, does the former rise to the point of being an attack? Maybe it does. Maybe we should be using it more often to stop that sort of thing. but I can already see it now, the whining and crying saying we are stiffling the freedom Fauna is kown for..lol :bandhead0


BUT...these freedoms are no longer freedoms if they impinge on another's rights. :shrug01: Simply put, someone's freedoms end where another's rights begin. Everyone has the right in the BOI or on the discussion forums to have questions answered in a civil informative manner.

I do not know of one person that would willingly pay to be abused on a forum knowing beforehand that that's the kind of treatment that they can expect. But then again, I could be wrong, some people are gluttons for punishment. But it does seem a bit "odd" that the main component that is the nucleus for good customer service in the Reptile community should be considered among the worse offenders. :shrug01:
 
hhmoore said:
There is always "Overly Abusive to Another Member"...but then, how do we know when we have crossed that line from being just abusive enough to being overly abusive :shrug01:
Too many shades of grey.

More than half of the current warnable offenses on the warnings list available to you are much more gray than black and white. Those are judgement calls that you all have to make the call on. The braking system for this is the "Warning System Abuse" option that would hopefully make you reflect a bit on your own call. Not to mention the resulting whine-o-gram that the warning inevitably produces. I have already gone on record stating that I will not take the time to fix YOUR mistakes, so you may want to make sure you feel what you are doing is justified if someone else questions it.

An "off topic" warning will have to be a judgement call on your part. No way around it. The warning is gray area, and your determination will probably be gray area as well. You will probably not have to defend your actions with me, but more than likely WILL have that request made by the person you warn for it.

My hoped for goal is to at least greatly reduce the occurrences of someone hijacking a thread by taking it on some asinine side path that is being done for no reason other than being disruptive, either maliciously or for their own destructively warped sense of humor. Yes, it will be subjective. Yes, it will cause some headaches. And yes, by the nature of the beast, it will not be uniform nor consistent in how it is implemented. With that goal above, and the noted expected wrinkles, the question is whether it should be at least attempted.

The caveat I would suggest is that anyone inclined to enforce any of the gray area rules be as circumspect as possible, and if any potential error is likely, to err on the side of being lenient rather than being strict in interpretting the rule. If you want to use your own mental "three strikes and you are out" determination, then so be it. The PURPOSE of the warnings is to discourage unacceptable behavior on this site. We all know that some off topic posting is clearly unacceptable, so what do we do about it if we do NOT implement something official to make that attempt?
 
deborahbroadus said:
BUT...these freedoms are no longer freedoms if they impinge on another's rights. :shrug01: Simply put, someone's freedoms end where another's rights begin. Everyone has the right in the BOI or on the discussion forums to have questions answered in a civil informative manner.

I do not know of one person that would willingly pay to be abused on a forum knowing beforehand that that's the kind of treatment that they can expect. But then again, I could be wrong, some people are gluttons for punishment. But it does seem a bit "odd" that the main component that is the nucleus for good customer service in the Reptile community should be considered among the worse offenders. :shrug01:

I think the best definition I have heard for "freedom" goes something like

The freedom of where you can put your fist ends at the tip of my nose.
 
Dennis Hultman said:
So, should we continue to close old classifieds or should we just allow the classifieds to bring in posters from the search engines?
Dennis,

Good question. Just because the ads are closed doesn't mean they don't contain the keywords that search engines seek out. What closing does though is to prevent newbies from being ridiculed for answering an ad for hatchlings from 2004 (ridiculing newbies being another "topic" of this thread).
 
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