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Bad Guy Stephen Carnicom AKA "scarnicom" is SHADY

F

foz223

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yesterday i found an ad from a guy that is in the next state over. im in michigan, hes in ohio. he has an albino burm that i really liked and since he is close to me, i knew shipping would be cheap so i inquired. we talked via email and negotiated a price. he offered me $165 shipped. the next morning he emailed me. he told me the he had been searching around and found that albino burms were around $250 or something. he then proceeded to tell me that he has to up the price to $210. he found out that he could try to make a little more money off of me just because he found some more expensive burms online. this really makes me sick. we had a deal and he broke it to try to make a little more money. this is very bad business. he is a trickster. START READING EMAIL FROM BOTTOM.

Hey just figured out actual cost of albino burms is pushing the 250's+ shipping. best I can do now is 210 shipped. sorry.

From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:48:24 AM
Subject: Re: burm pics


ok you win lol. ill do 165. get at me thanks

From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 11:14:05 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics

I could do 165 shipped.

From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 10:31:33 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics

yea for sure. i like the color. nice white. i prefer the bright orange on this one opposed to some of the yellow looking ones. would you do $150 shipped?
 
Did you exchange money? Was it really needed for a bad guy thread? Or could it have been an inqury? If all you have is those emails as proof with no money changing hands, you really should have made an inqury...
 
I agree with Tyler. Posting a Bad Guy Thread just for less than ideal business tactics without money actually being exchanged or an animal misrepresented, arriving DOA, not arriving at all or a sour deal in general is just not warranted. An inquiry would have been more than enough.

These threads are here forever. They are not removed and they are not edited. So, if someone ever does a search on this indivual's name on the BOI, this is what will show up now and that is hardly fair.

Please think before you react to such a situation in the future.
 
No one said it was not shady, however, it still did not warrant this thread.

Bad Guy Threads can be damning to people. Some people do searches on names, see that red flag pop up and immediately make the decision not to do business with that person. Sometimes they do not go into the thread to read it. It is unfortunate, but it does happen that way.

While I will agree that what he did was not appropriate, I cannot say that it meant he was working specifically to screw someone over. He just happened to realize the price he was looking for was not the price he could get. This would have been a problem only if you had already given him money. Since you did not, you should have just taken it as a deal that never was, posted an info thread at most and let it go. Instead, there is an unwarranted Bad Guy Thread soiling someone's name.

Did you even tell him you were posting this?
 
I would tend to disagree. They had a agreement to purchase at an agreed upon price and "scarnicom" broke their agreement. Technically speaking, it is breach of contract.

IMO: Definately worthy of a BOI thread.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley
 
I never said it was not worthy of a BOI thread. An info or inquiry thread is still a BOI thread and still makes the general public aware of dealings in this past with a certain individual. But a situation like this does not make someone a "Bad Guy" outright. It makes them questionable, sure, but that is why you post the informative threads. They make people aware so they can make the decision on if they are good or bad.
 
ShadowAceD said:
I never said it was not worthy of a BOI thread. An info or inquiry thread is still a BOI thread and still makes the general public aware of dealings in this past with a certain individual. But a situation like this does not make someone a "Bad Guy" outright. It makes them questionable, sure, but that is why you post the informative threads. They make people aware so they can make the decision on if they are good or bad.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

While I didn't like the seller's "Bite and Switch" method, because he could/should have researched prices BEFORE putting the animal up for sale, an Inquiry or Info thread would have served just as well to alert members of the seller's shady selling tactics.
 
ShadowAceD said:
No one said it was not shady, however, it still did not warrant this thread.

Bad Guy Threads can be damning to people. Some people do searches on names, see that red flag pop up and immediately make the decision not to do business with that person. Sometimes they do not go into the thread to read it. It is unfortunate, but it does happen that way.
Click to expand...

I am reading the whole thread... and with what I have read up to this point.... Im glad the OP posted this. The seller quoted a price and the buyer agreed... then the seller decides to try and get more $$$ from the buyer after the deal has been made.

If what is posted by the OP is true... then the seller deserves to get burnt by the heading.
 
Southern Wolf said:
I am reading the whole thread... and with what I have read up to this point.... Im glad the OP posted this. The seller quoted a price and the buyer agreed... then the seller decides to try and get more $$$ from the buyer after the deal has been made.

If what is posted by the OP is true... then the seller deserves to get burnt by the heading.
Click to expand...

:eek:waaaaaaiiiittt...As many times as we have all agreed that transactions are not finalized until money has exchanged hands?

As many times as we have agreed that up to that point of money exchanging hands either party has the right to change their minds?:shrug01:

Sorry, I disagree with your assessment of the situation. No money has exchanged hands. Buyers always agree to buy something and change their minds or don't follow through with the transaction. In my opinion (yeah, I know, I know...), if those buyers that changed their minds on a transaction and backed out, don't deserve a "Bad Guy" thread, neither does a seller.
 
The guy had the right to back out until deposit or money changed hands ,but way way way
"Unethical" next time give a heads up just be a lil more slow to charge in the BOI and list someone a BadGuy or Gal! A question is better to proceed with and please let him know about your acusation please so we can hear both sides.
 
Ok. What if you went to a store to buy a tv. You pick out the one you like and take it to the register and are fully commited to buying it and they say "hold it, I know it says we are selling them for $500 but the store Down the street is selling them for $650. So regardless of what our price tag says, we are going to sell them for more now because we Found out they are worth more. I'm just sayin it's bad business. And you shouldn't change your prices and expect it to fly.
 
deborahbroadus said:
Buyers always agree to buy something and change their minds or don't follow through with the transaction. In my opinion (yeah, I know, I know...), if those buyers that changed their minds on a transaction and backed out, don't deserve a "Bad Guy" thread, neither does a seller.
Click to expand...

tinmantribe5 said:
The guy had the right to back out until deposit or money changed hands ,but way way way
Click to expand...

While I see the argument for an inquiry thread. I think I would have done a bad guy thread also. The difference I see here is: the seller did not "back out" of the sale. He raised the price after the buyer had negotiated terms which he agreed to. It is a tough situation though, as the seller clearly did not do his research about prices before agreeing to the $165 (although I have no idea what the snake is actually worth).

The best analogy I can come up with is if you went to a car dealer and negotiated a price for a new car and the dealer agreed that they would sell you the car for $10,000. However, some time later (there is no e-mail header to indicate time stamp on the final email) the dealer called you to say "sorry I double checked the prices at other lots and I cannot sell you the car at that price, it will now cost you $12,700." I would be LIVID and would report them to the better business bureau for bait and switch tactics.

I also think that any tactic/method of bait and switch absolutely makes you a bad guy. But that is just my opinion.
 
foz223 said:
Ok. What if you went to a store to buy a tv. You pick out the one you like and take it to the register and are fully commited to buying it and they say "hold it, I know it says we are selling them for $500 but the store Down the street is selling them for $650. So regardless of what our price tag says, we are going to sell them for more now because we Found out they are worth more. I'm just sayin it's bad business. And you shouldn't change your prices and expect it to fly.
Click to expand...

I totally understand. I think I can safely say we ALL understand, and we all agree with you.

Regardless, it is HIS animal; you have no given him any money towards the animal. Thus his business tactics at this point do not constitute a "Bad Guy."

I am sure that there may have been times that some of us that have admired an animal and asked the buyer to hold the animal, only to later back out of the deal for various reasons (true or false) would not want to have to suffer a "Bad Guy" thread simply because we changed our minds, or a better deal came along?
 
I agree with Deb and stand by my own decision on the situation.

If people can get Bad Guy Threads started on them just because they decided to shift the price on something before money was exchanged, before the deal was finalized and before the animal was in transit or delivered, then consequently, it would be logical to put up Bad Guy Threads on any buyer who agrees to purchase an animal for a stated price, goes back and forth with the seller about their interests and about how they want it and then, at the last minute state "Sorry, not interested at that price, I'd rather it be lower."

Seriously, that is not even remotely fair.
 
scaledverts said:
While I see the argument for an inquiry thread. I think I would have done a bad guy thread also. The difference I see here is: the seller did not "back out" of the sale. He raised the price after the buyer had negotiated terms which he agreed to. It is a tough situation though, as the seller clearly did not do his research about prices before agreeing to the $165 (although I have no idea what the snake is actually worth).

The best analogy I can come up with is if you went to a car dealer and negotiated a price for a new car and the dealer agreed that they would sell you the car for $10,000. However, some time later (there is no e-mail header to indicate time stamp on the final email) the dealer called you to say "sorry I double checked the prices at other lots and I cannot sell you the car at that price, it will now cost you $12,700." I would be LIVID and would report them to the better business bureau for bait and switch tactics.

I also think that any tactic/method of bait and switch absolutely makes you a bad guy. But that is just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I totally understand your point. However, let me point out that in your example if you have signed no contract yet, and no money has exchanged hands, then the dealer is not legally obligated to sell you the car at the price agreed on. At this point you are both still "negotiating" in my opinion.

And..... with no paperwork to back up your claim then it's possible that the BBB would ignore your report too.:shrug01:
 
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