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Sub sahara ball python

Come on now Abigail, you sure that isn't a child's hand to make the head appear bigger...LOL What a beautiful huge dark girl!!
 
I have no idea what the deal really is on these but just playing the devil’s advocate; IF there was a region of the ball python range where they specialized in feeding on a larger species (think prairie dogs vs. gophers for a North American example) then seems logical that gene pool might get selected for bigger snakes with bigger heads.
 
We ultrasounded my WC subsaharan tonight. She's Gravid with 46mm follicles!!! So she's gravid from the wild. I palpated at least 12 follicles when she got here. Hoping for more... We didn't want to try and count them with the ultrasound. She wasn't holding still. Anyway...I'm just excited ;).
 
ClarkT said:
We ultrasounded my WC subsaharan tonight. She's Gravid with 46mm follicles!!! So she's gravid from the wild. I palpated at least 12 follicles when she got here. Hoping for more... We didn't want to try and count them with the ultrasound. She wasn't holding still. Anyway...I'm just excited ;).
Click to expand...

Any updates on this lady?
 
Yeah, she laid 10. 7 were good eggs, and 3 were slugs. 1 egg, a boob egg, died about 2 weeks into it. The remaining 6 look great!
I haven't gotten her to eat, yet, though. Trying ASFs soon. Hopefully she'll go for them. If not, I'll try gerbils, etc... I've tried mice. She looked, but didn't go for it. I kind of expected it, but thought she'd eat after laying, cause she'd be really hungry.
 
Kingofspades said:
But at the same time, if it is an isolated population that can get to maximum growth, and they are only breeding with each other, over time that "maximum size" would be programmed into their DNA.
Heck, apparently personality is genetic, why not size?
I read about how they tamed the first Green Anacondas. They bred the most tame they could find, and held back the most tame babies. They raised them up and bred them and got even tamer babies. If sometime as simple as personality of the animal could be genetic, why not size...ESPECIALLY in an isolated population?
Click to expand...

Instead of it being a single gene responsible, I think it is more than likely polygenic. Over generations of larger specimens breeding the offspring tend to be large as well but it most likely isn't something that can be predicted like Mendelian genetics. Sort of like Pastel in boas - line breeding makes them better. I bet Sub-Saharans are just line bred locale specific animals. But it's just a theory. :thumbsup:

My giant girl I posted about earlier in the thread gave her first clutch (at 13 yrs old) yesterday, 11 big eggs. She was around 3850g before ovulation and was 2500g after laying - the clutch was a whopping 1131 grams laid on day 31 after POS.

pic of her laying
63232_287536_VeryLarge_yn15e8PVxNMW.jpg


the eggs (think I'm gonna need to put them in a bigger box!)
63232_287537_VeryLarge_IedmcqSw6jqMa0H.jpg
 
Just out of curiosity ...

Has anyone considered that the larger heads on these WC "Sub Saharans" have more to do with frequency of feeding of BPs in captivity rather than their genetics?

I only ask because in boa constrictors, a boa fed too frequently will grow disproportionately in a manner that its head will be disproportionately small in comparison to the rest of his body. Because of the shape of BPs, this would be more difficult to notice, I believe. Still ... is it possible that the frequency people feed BPs to get them up to breeding size as quickly as possible contribute to their heads being smaller than these WC counterparts?

I'll admit, I have minimal knowledge on BPs in this regard, but reading the comments about these mature females pulled from the wild with larger than what is considered normal heads just had me wondering.
 
ShadowAceD said:
Just out of curiosity ...

Has anyone considered that the larger heads on these WC "Sub Saharans" have more to do with frequency of feeding of BPs in captivity rather than their genetics?

I only ask because in boa constrictors, a boa fed too frequently will grow disproportionately in a manner that its head will be disproportionately small in comparison to the rest of his body. Because of the shape of BPs, this would be more difficult to notice, I believe. Still ... is it possible that the frequency people feed BPs to get them up to breeding size as quickly as possible contribute to their heads being smaller than these WC counterparts?

I'll admit, I have minimal knowledge on BPs in this regard, but reading the comments about these mature females pulled from the wild with larger than what is considered normal heads just had me wondering.
Click to expand...

I think you just hit the nail on the head with that one...:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the ideas.
Do you use a fresh killed rat or mouse? Do you just lay it next to her? Does yours hiss a lot? Mine sure does, but she never strikes. I sure enjoy her and hope to get her eating soon.

That's an interesting thought on head size. hmmm......
 
Mine hisses a lot no strikes as well. I just toss it in leave overnight. Do not disturb I stay out the room rest of night. Took me 3- 4 times trying before she took u can try a mouse then move to a rat. I started with fresh kill asf rat then she took. 4 days later I tossed in a fresh kill rat and she took
 
ShadowAceD said:
Just out of curiosity ...

Has anyone considered that the larger heads on these WC "Sub Saharans" have more to do with frequency of feeding of BPs in captivity rather than their genetics?

I only ask because in boa constrictors, a boa fed too frequently will grow disproportionately in a manner that its head will be disproportionately small in comparison to the rest of his body. Because of the shape of BPs, this would be more difficult to notice, I believe. Still ... is it possible that the frequency people feed BPs to get them up to breeding size as quickly as possible contribute to their heads being smaller than these WC counterparts?

I'll admit, I have minimal knowledge on BPs in this regard, but reading the comments about these mature females pulled from the wild with larger than what is considered normal heads just had me wondering.
Click to expand...
Interesting theory, I have heard that but that hasn't been the case with my fastest growing females.
I have an 08 that is 3000 grams and has a nice large head, same with my 09 that is well over 2000 grams.

Admittedly my group isn't enough to say no, but I highly doubt that theory from my own experiences raising females to large adults.
 
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