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suddenly sick leo--help!

cookreptiles

cookreptiles

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i was doing the rounds tonight, feeding and checking on everyone and when i opened this little guy's tub i thought he was gone already. he is waaay darker than normal--the dark that an animal gets when something is really wrong. he could be close to a shed, but this is not normal shed color. i picked him up and he feels kind of squishy. not limp exactly but weak and not firm in his belly like he should be. his belly looks bruised. there was also a big poop (i think it was fecal matter, but perhaps it was vomit?) that was basically a twist of undigested mealworms. i seriously don't know if he is going to make it through the night for me to get him to the vet in the morning. yesterday he seemed fine. any thoughts on what this could be or what i can do for him?

here is a pic of him taken several weeks ago:
lg06.jpg


this is a pic from tonight:
LG-06a.jpg


and here is his belly. it was hard to capture the coloration, but you can kind of see how it is bruised looking instead of nice a white. it looks darker in person than it does here.
LG-06b.jpg
 
No fun - poor little dude (and poor you)

What's the latest fecal you had done? Did he seem OK yesterday?

I'd try a soak if he's not too limp and it wouldn't be too traumatic - I use a very mild reptile electrolyte liquid and mix it with the water for further hydration and absorption through the skin. I also might give him a tiny bit of mineral oil to lube things up inside in case those dark bits are just undigested food bits. This are suggestions so if anyone supports or opposes them, please post!

If you've seen a leo liver, it is rather large for their size and can often be seen in leos that don't have enough fat padding or are sick (so can the other internal organs) but its higher up than your dark areas seem to be...I can't really tell from the pic.

This will not be consoling but:
My local shelter gave me a sick, abused little guy to quarantine and he had similar dark areas - we thought they might be internal bleeding or malignant/tumorous growths. We treated him with wormers and antibiotics and he seemed to have a new lease on life. However, one day months later he just fell so ill...we tested him for parasites multiple times and he came up clean. We couldn't figure out what was wrong with him (I strongly suspect organ failure due to stunted growth or some kind of systemic infection/virus we couldn't pin down) He didn't respond to the antibiotics and by the time I came around to doing a blood panel he was so far gone that it wasn't worth his suffering. In hindsight, we should have done a necropsy because we never figured out what those spots were - no impaction, not internal bleeding, nothing.

I think what I mean to suggest here is getting a blood panel done if the vet rules out other potential problems. Its a bit more expensive but gives you a lot of information to work with. Also, this little guy felt "soft" too but I think this lack of firmness is actually just what happens when they're a little limp and sick enough to have weakened muscular control.

Sorry I can't be more help...good luck to both of you.
 
Emily, I don't really know what would be causing that, as I've never had it happen, but I'm thinking that 1) he just ate too much, puked and will hopefully feel better 2) something may be causing a blockage/impaction that is preventing him from digesting and passing the food or 3) he might have internal parasites that are keeping him from digesting the food. All I can suggest really is to keep him warm and hydrated until a vet can either do a fecal or examine his stomach to look for a blockage. I'd put him on new paper towels so that you can monitor his eliminations until then. Just my suggestion. (oh, and in the second picture, it looks like he's planning on shedding within a few days which might account for his duller coloration.) Best of luck with him.
 
thanks for the replies.

he looked fine yesterday, but i didn't get him out so i may have missed him becoming weak and limp due to the lack of visual cues.

i soaked him in lukewarm water and very gently stroked him belly a few times. afterwards he passed a small amount of feces and from what i could tell it looked normal, just small. he does seem to need to shed soon, but i've seen him going into shed many times and this is not the normal whitish dull color, instead it is grayish greenish and only dull on the feet and tail so far. it's just not a normal leo color.

i hatched him myself in the beginning of august and have not had fecals done. if the parents are clean is it necessary to test the babies?

he is in a clean and warm tub for now, but the soak seems to have made him even weaker than before. i'm still not sure he is going to make it until morning, but hopefully he will and the vet will be able to help. this is just so sudden that i am a bit at a loss.
 
well thanks again everyone for your replies and suggestions. i got up a while ago to check on him and make a vet appointment since they opened at 7:30 this morning, but as i feared my little one didn't make it through the night. i don't understand what happened. one day he was fine, the next not fine. i don't know if i'll have a necrospy done or not, right now i can't really think about that. :(
 
Sorry for your loss Emily...
Most of us have dealt with mysterious illnesses like that and it's very frustrating. I talked to Marcia once about the whole "failure to thrive" issue that serves as a temporary explanation for sick geckos that can't be explained...it's just impossible to save them sometimes. I wonder, since this happened so quickly, if it didn't have something to do with the food (meal worms). I did have one beautiful male that died from superworms. The superworms caused internal injuries according to our vet! I heard stories about that happening, but didn't think it was possible. But those were superworms, not mealies. I've stopped using superworms since then. I've never had the problem with mealworms, but maybe others have. Or perhaps the mealworms were contaminated in some way...but if all your other geckos are fine then that'd make no sense either. Oh well, again...sorry for your loss. Please let us know if you find out what happened...it could help us all.
thanks for sharing,
Paul
 
Sorry for your loss Emily...I know black spots in the belly can mean ruptured organs or eggs...who knows however...

Get a necropsy done, so you don't have to wonder. Maybe it is something that can get passed on...you definatly want to find out what it is..
 
Well that just sucks, yours is the second gecko passing I have heard about in the last couple of days and it just very very sad.

As others have said, please keep us posted on what you find out, it may save other geckos in the future...

Again, sorry for your lose...
 
thank you all for your kind words.

i can't imagine that it was anything to do with the mealworms--all my other geckos ate the same worms and all are fine (so far).

the black and bruised areas did make me wonder if there was some internal bleeding and/or organ rupturing. couldn't have been eggs as this was definitely a male.

in a way i am glad it was fast, at least that way he didn't have to suffer through too much. :/

i am going to call around and try to find a vet that will do a necropsy on him. at least that way i will have some answers and can perhaps share insight to others that may experience something similar.

rest in peace little one.
miltonsboy110105.jpg
 
That is so sad, and I too am very sorry for your loss Emily. Sometimes these things happen, for reasons seemingly unknown.
 
Emily,

I am so sorry for your loss. He liked like a little sweety. Hope you find out what happened. Take Care!
 
I missed this thread when it started up, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. Reptiles in general are masters at hiding illness... and sometimes there just isn't anything you can do. Find comfort in knowing that you gave him a great home and that you tried your hardest to help him.
:hugs
Tania
 
im so sorry. i dont really know what to say. i had something like this happen once about 1 year ago. good to know your gonna get to the bottom of it and find out what it is. so no mysteries here. once again, sorry for your lose
 
thanks all for the kind words.

i took him to a vet who will perform the necropsy and let me know the results. i am anxious to hear them, hopefully i will get some word back today. i'm gonna miss this little guy. he was my best male from this season.
 
I remember his picture from your website; I kept going back to your site just to see him - I was just awestruck from the first time I saw the little guy.

What a terrible loss, I am so sorry this happened...
 
So sorry for your loss...and sad to hear there wasn't anything you could do to help him =( :(
He looked like a wonderful little guy...

Let us know what mysteriously took away your little one...
 
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