Sunshinedragons

[Sunshinedragons]

I don't get it already. Stop with the "he said-she said" .

Stop with innuedos, rumors and we don't give answers.

>>>Show us the sickly, dying, ill Dragons we are distributing. Not how we respond to questions .

>We thought the issue was we were distributing sick, ill, "Black Plague " Dragons. They should all be dying by now according to the rumors of this "Black Plague" disease.

****The 1st clutchs are over 5-6-7 **months by now. If we are distributing such unhealthy dragons, that devaste colonies from this Virus where are they?

We, ourselves continue to publicly ask for people to respond and Post their sickly Dragons!! We asked???

If people don't like our approach they don't have to deal with this company and obtain 700 gram Healthy Dragons that you keep complaining about.

. They have choices. Nevertheless at least we have done extensive Scientific, and Medical evaluations with top notch Veterinarian Universities and Vets. They disagree with other Universities and Vets. We didn't pull it out of a hat.

>Yet the issue isn't whether you agree with how we decide to approach things, or whether you understand Science or Medicine. The issue is a virus that is supposed to be deadly and we are being accused of spreading a killer virus.

>Show us the sick and ill disease we are spreading already. Still you come back with "he said she said", and "you can't get answers".

Yet no sick and dying dragons. >>>Not one post, still not one. We ourselves finally found someone who E-mailled us and said his dragons wasn't up to our own standards. We found one person. One!!!~!!

Yes now we can hopefully get it back and have it tested for everything. Blood test, Adeno, Xrays. We do that stuff, does anyone else!!

Well the answer is where are the sickly diseased dragons, from this deadly disease, that certainly should have caused massive deaths, within Five & six months. There are enough of them out there. Especially since this supposedly such a bad deadly quick spreading killer "Black Plague Virus"

>>You personally called me last year and appologized for the same type of nonsense as you are now repeating this year. If I remember correctly you even indicated you wished you had a Sunshinedragon. I guess this how you feel you gain status. >Yet where are the sick Dragons.

We will again await your phone call to again apologize for these baseless innuedos , Rummors and "he said she said".

>Show us the sick and dying Dragons already and stop with the accusations until you do. Not a single damn post by anyone that says they recieved an ill, sick dying Dragon. Just BS about how we decide to approach the situation.

Bruce

Ps > We even still have Chrie S linked on our Web so people can go to her site and see her sensless & false accusations. That's how much we want people to challenge us about the quality of our beautiful, Healthy, genetically sound, Dragons.

We have not even Posted on other sites that these false accusations are being posted. We don't need to defend ouselves. The quality of Dragons we distribute speak for themselves.

 

[Valley Dragons]

CheriS, I think having a place for people to post their own experiences and knowlege is a definite step in the right direction as to learning more about this virus. One thing that I have not found any information on - is the virus thought to be air-born, or is it simply passed through contact? Is bleach enough to kill this virus in the environment? I currently have a couple of newly purchased dragons in quarantine. I use a common tub to soak all of my dragons, but I clean with bleach between each dragon's bath. Is this enough to prevent spread of any possible virus, or should the new dragons not even be using the same tub as my other dragons?

Jamie

 

[Sunshinedragons]

Bleach supposedly will not kill it

Our other post was a reponse to Crazyhorse.

We are told heat will kill it, bleach, supposidly will not kill it

Bruce

 

[Valley Dragons]

Oh, great. That would make containing the virus quite a bit more difficult if it is true that you have to kill it with heat.

Jamie

 

[Sunshinedragons]

Again, others may have different information?

Bruce

 

[crazyhorse526]

Our other post was a reponse to Crazyhorse.

Bruce

If you were refering to talking to me in the past on the phone you have me mistaken with somebody else. I have never bought a dragon from you but have sent people your way on a few occasions in the past. I didnt refer them to you personally but to Lauren since she was always great to deal with. Are you telling me that nobody has been contacting you about sick dragons? They have forwarded your response to them to me and it is basically the same long winded BS claims that you have posted on this thread too many times already.
Have you told us what your test results were yet or not? That is a simple yes or no answer, can you answer that with a simple yes or no without copying and pasting a page and half of quotes from everybody and their brother? It is a simple yes or no answer.
You say that everyone should test their dragons, I did test mine and I stopped all sales until the results came back. Mine came back negative and 2 of them were from Brandon at DBN. I will retest in the spring however for my own peace of mind.

 

[crazyhorse526]

One more question Bruce. How many babies have had die in the last 2 seasons under your roof before they could be sold?

 

[Sunshinedragons]

the issue was we were distrbuting Sick Dragons,Only One person e-mailed us

We were accused of selling sick dragons that supposedly spread a Deadly virus. Where are they. Not a single post about any? Isn't that a little suspicious. Not one post of these sick dying deadly diseased Dragons.Why not?

One e-mail about one Dragon that is not developing the way it supposedly should be. We are and always have addressed those issue. No you don't have one of our dragons, we don't sell our pets to just anyone.

We have explained the test. You and others don't accept or undrstand it, yet the real issue is where are the sick deadly Dragons.

>>*****By now they should have killed off every colony in the country. Isn't that the issue. the Virus, and that we are distributing Deadly diseased Dragons. Well show them to us.

Whether you under stand the Explanation/ opinon of one of the Top Ranked Ivy League, Highest Ranked Veterinarian Universities/Hospital is less relevant. Our customers understood as we initiated a mass mailing to keep them informed.

>>>>> Where are those sick dying dragons that are spreading disease. Have we had some mortalities out of the 60+++ Breeders , yes. We also expect some. We expect some in those we distibute. We never claimed every single living animal won't get sick, or some won't pass away. Who can?

Nevertheless spreading this "Deadly Plague" that is so contaminating, by now thousands of Dragons should be falling over. Its November we have distibuted this seasons Dragons since April.

We obtained 6-8 Great Breeders from A Class professional Company and Person. That company also distributed many, many , very many Dragons.

>>>One person had one Dragon that supposedly came from one of his 30-50 Breeders that tested positive for this Deadly Virus. Remember we only obtained 6-8 yet what he and we considered the top 6-8+/-.

>This is a "Balck Plaque " disease we are contaminating. Where are they????

Page (what) 18 how long has this post been going on. Not a single person posted about any sickly Dragons they obtained from Sunshinedragons.

>>Isn't that odd for such a Deadly Virus with babies distributed since actually March, yet lets say May-June!!! This post should be filled with pages of sick dying dragons and colonies with us allegedly distributing such Sick Deadly Diseased Dragons. Let alone the former owner of these supposed carriers

>>****Neverthless all we keep hearing is how big and healthy, and personable, and beautiful our Dragons are growing, from customers and Vets!!!! So where are the sick dying dragons!!!

Enough already

Bruce Kalish

 

[Wilomn]

We were accused of selling sick dragons that supposedly spread a Deadly virus. Where are they. Not a single post about any? Isn't that a little suspicious. Not one post of these sick dying deadly diseased Dragons.Why not?

One e-mail about one Dragon that is not developing the way it supposedly should be. We are and always have addressed those issue. No you don't have one of our dragons, we don't sell our pets to just anyone.

We have explained the test. You and others don't accept or undrstand it, yet the real issue is where are the sick deadly Dragons.

>>*****By now they should have killed off every colony in the country. Isn't that the issue. the Virus, and that we are distributing Deadly diseased Dragons. Well show them to us.

Whether you under stand the Explanation/ opinon of one of the Top Ranked Ivy League, Highest Ranked Veterinarian Universities/Hospital is less relevant. Our customers understood as we initiated a mass mailing to keep them informed.

>>>>> Where are those sick dying dragons that are spreading disease. Have we had some mortalities out of the 60+++ Breeders , yes. We also expect some. We expect some in those we distibute. We never claimed every single living animal won't get sick, or some won't pass away. Who can?

Nevertheless spreading this "Deadly Plague" that is so contaminating, by now thousands of Dragons should be falling over. Its November we have distibuted this seasons Dragons since April.

We obtained 6-8 Great Breeders from A Class professional Company and Person. That company also distributed many, many , very many Dragons.

>>>One person had one Dragon that supposedly came from one of his 30-50 Breeders that tested positive for this Deadly Virus. Remember we only obtained 6-8 yet what he and we considered the top 6-8+/-.

>This is a "Balck Plaque " disease we are contaminating. Where are they????

Page (what) 18 how long has this post been going on. Not a single person posted about any sickly Dragons they obtained from Sunshinedragons.

>>Isn't that odd for such a Deadly Virus with babies distributed since actually March, yet lets say May-June!!! This post should be filled with pages of sick dying dragons and colonies with us allegedly distributing such Sick Deadly Diseased Dragons. Let alone the former owner of these supposed carriers

>>****Neverthless all we keep hearing is how big and healthy, and personable, and beautiful our Dragons are growing, from customers and Vets!!!! So where are the sick dying dragons!!!

Enough already

Bruce Kalish

Ok brucie, I'll take a stab at this one.

IF you provide the contact info on EVERYONE you've sold dragons to here, in this thread, EVERYONE, I am sure contact with each and everyone of them can be arranged. THEN we can see just how many of them are truly pleased and how many of them have had dragons die on them.

IF you cannot or will not provide such contact information, bend over real hard and Kiss your Ass goodbye, you are exposed as the lying disease spreading scumbag you seem to be.

 

[Sunshinedragons]

Real professional, and another accusation

You want our company to give you and everyone our total customer list, and addresses. Especially to someone who thinks that comments like you make are going to intimidate or scare us. How appropriate. what a challenge. Grow up

Why don't we just hire some detectives as you would think they would be able to find them.

With comments like yours.

Were done.

Resentment is like drinking Poison and expecting the other person to die.

Thats it show us the diseased dragons or shut up. Until you do were not posting especially with the inappropriate, unprofessional poost now coming.


Night, and thanks for all the customers you have sent us over this post. the backlash is incredible.

 

[whiskersmom]

You've said that you will answer any questions put to you. Just copy/past and answer the questions, please.

Have you tested any bearded dragons owned by you for Adenovirus?

What was the date of the testing?

Which ones were positive?

Have you sold any since finding out about the test results?

Did you inform the buyers of those dragons, that you had tested positive for Adenovirus in your colony?

How many bearded dragons that you own have died in the last year?

How many of them were adults?

How many of them were babies?

What did they die from?

 

[Jim O]

With comments like yours.

Were done.

Resentment is like drinking Poison and expecting the other person to die.

Thats it show us the diseased dragons or shut up. Until you do were not posting especially with the inappropriate, unprofessional poost now coming.


Night, and thanks for all the customers you have sent us over this post. the backlash is incredible.

Well...I've been reading along and waiting. This is what, the second time you've skulked off because you couldn't stand the heat in the kitchen?

Two things I've learned here. First, most all come back after such statements, just like you already have. Second, when people say that negative publicity has helped business it is rarely so. Only if the accuser is so blatantly full of crap. But eh, this one is at best up in the air (that's being kind to you) and actually is likely much worse for you. I know where I wouldn't be buying.

 

[Sunshinedragons]

Sorry were done as of the previous post. Forget it. Were not going to take that garbage, or be subjected to it.

We have taken enough of the insults,false and innacurate accusations and now that. Forget it.

Were not going to repond to anyone on this post after that. No way are going to put up with this garbage.

Bruce

 

[whiskersmom]

Sorry were done as of the previous post. Forget it. Were not going to take that garbage, or be subjected to it.

We have taken enough of the insults,false and innacurate accusations and now that. Forget it.

Were not going to repond to anyone on this post after that. No way are going to put up with this garbage.

Bruce

Why am I not surprized?

 

[CheriS]

Hey Jim.

Can you give me the lotto numbers for the next draw? You seem to hit predictions dead on pretty well!

 

[ashbb24]

Without a complete study with experimental and control groups, there are no facts available. There haven't even been sloppy studies done. For all we know, a bearded dragon that tests negative for adeno its whole life could produce adeno positive babies.

Broken down:

-A negative dragon could really be positive and end up sick.

-A positive dragon could end up being healthy.


If I bought a dragon from Sunshine and a dragon from Dachiu, why would test results matter? Even if the dragon was tested negative, it could really be positive. If the dragon tested positive, it could be healthy anyway! No one knows how likely a positive dragon will actually end up being sick from having adeno. It could be just as likely as a negative dragon becoming sick due to a false positive.

So what does one do? If one chooses to only breed adeno-negative dragons, what are the chances of having positive babies? No one knows. If one chooses to breed adeno-negative dragons, what are the chances of that dragon having a false-negative? No one knows. I know it is hard to understand, but without studies, having a healthy baby dragon from a positive parents is just as likely as a healthy baby from negative parents.

 

[Wilomn]

Sorry were done as of the previous post. Forget it. Were not going to take that garbage, or be subjected to it.

We have taken enough of the insults,false and innacurate accusations and now that. Forget it.

Were not going to repond to anyone on this post after that. No way are going to put up with this garbage.

Bruce

Ohhhhh brucieeeee, you're a lying sack of crap.

IF you have soooooooooo very many soooooooo satisfied customers, as YOU have boasted, why have we heard soooooooo very very very VERY little from them?


hmmmmmmm, brucie? Maybe because THEY were, perhaps, satisfied customers UNTIL they found out that YOU may well be responsible for the wipe out of hopes and dreams.

I'd like to see you stay gone, but, like some others here, I bet you'll be back.

 

[CheriS]

One thing that I have not found any information on - is the virus thought to be air-born, or is it simply passed through contact? Is bleach enough to kill this virus in the environment?

Jamie,

there has been no evidence that it is airborne, dragons kept side by side in separate tanks for 10 months,with one positive, has not passed it to the other one that was negative and still is 4 years later. IT is believed to be oral/fecal transmiss on, it is unknown if offsping contact it at the DNA level or passing through the cloacal of an infected mother. That is the next testing that plans on being done.


Ashley,

You might want to spend some more time on research, many of your statements in your post are wrong. I do not mean to pick on you, but some are very wrong. There have been several studies done and reports are online.

A positive is accurate, we have never seen one positive that tested negative later......... not saying it could not happen, it has even happened to HIV/AIDS victims so anything is possible. But that is not what any testings or studies have shown to date. I will admit too, there is not a lot of repear testing over time, but again, what there is shows once positive, always positive. A negative can be inaccurate if in the incubation period after exposure OR the test sample was stored improperly, shipped without fixative to preserve it or degrading at the lab. Those are easy to avoid and are the same for any lab test, including humans or other species. So a breeder could make a positive animal appear negative if they wanted, which is why you have to trust who your are buying from if they state they test negative for adenovirus and why some breeders do not want to bother with them.

There are some theories that one type of testing for adeno in live animals is more accurate than the other, there is no proof of that and that is one thing that University of IL and University of FL are planning on working on together with one doing one test, and the other provifing the same samples for the other test and comparing them. THis was discussed with Dr Jacobson at U of FL and Lou Ann at U of IL this week.

There is more, use search engines and also look in their classification, not just pogona and also look in all pogona species, not just vitticeps

 

[Jim O]

Hey Jim.

Can you give me the lotto numbers for the next draw? You seem to hit predictions dead on pretty well!

LOL. It only took him three minutes.

Without a complete study with experimental and control groups, there are no facts available. There haven't even been sloppy studies done. For all we know, a bearded dragon that tests negative for adeno its whole life could produce adeno positive babies.

Broken down:

-A negative dragon could really be positive and end up sick.

-A positive dragon could end up being healthy.


If I bought a dragon from Sunshine and a dragon from Dachiu, why would test results matter? Even if the dragon was tested negative, it could really be positive. If the dragon tested positive, it could be healthy anyway! No one knows how likely a positive dragon will actually end up being sick from having adeno. It could be just as likely as a negative dragon becoming sick due to a false positive.

So what does one do? If one chooses to only breed adeno-negative dragons, what are the chances of having positive babies? No one knows. If one chooses to breed adeno-negative dragons, what are the chances of that dragon having a false-negative? No one knows. I know it is hard to understand, but without studies, having a healthy baby dragon from a positive parents is just as likely as a healthy baby from negative parents.

Actually this is technically not so, at least not the "just as likely part". It is probably not "just as likely". In fact, while any of the the outcomes may be possible, the likelihoods of each are unknown. Being unknown does not equate to "just as likely" which equates to "equally likely". Without data you have no information, as you observed correctly. But such lack of data does allow one to draw any conclusions.

 

[Jim O]

But such lack of data does allow one to draw any conclusions.

Correction:
But such lack of data does NOT allow one to draw any conclusions.

Sorry, almost 2AM here...