Info Tammy & Kevin-Business and morals? Enough is enough

[SDiBiasi]

From the very beginning Tammy had phone conversations with John asking about the animal including about breeding and he never mentioned it bred. But of course we don't have recordings of our conversations. I cant post things about phone conversations because I don't have "proof". And cause I'm the little guy no one is going to believe me.

We should have never trusted people do business the same way we do. Morals and ethics first before dollars. Before any animal leave our possession the potential new owner will now everything about it whether they ask about it or not.

Perhaps, he forgot that she was one that he had bred at the time, especially with that male. It is an honest mistake. He did offer a refund after finding out that he had bred her before and now she wasn't with you. He tried to make it right at that time. But here we are another year pass and now you demand a refund even after knowing she has bred before, produced eggs (which were not viable due to the sire), but had not for you.

A lot of people have stated it over and over. You do not a get a unlimited warranty on snakes, there is no guarantee if the snake will breed for you or not.

 

[laterob]

Kevin...look at the number of people who don't see things your way. Based on the information presented, we have all formed opinions. Mine, and apparently others, is that you are in the wrong here.

You are, in the least, a hypocrite for doing EXACTLY what you keep saying you'd never do (be dishonest). I think you are also a drama king and the more people you have come here and start GG threads about you, the worse you look.

This reminds me of the many FB wars that spill onto the BOI. Once people say "I'm taking my ball home", I really wish they would.

 

[JColt]

John, Don't sweat it. Tammy & Kevin ruined any (if they had any to begin with) credibility when they made that post.

 

[starsevol]

John, Don't sweat it. Tammy & Kevin ruined any (if they had any to begin with) credibility when they made that post.

I agree. Their so called proof against you worked unquestionably in your favor. I am just so sorry you had to deal with the likes of this couple, and for such a long time. At least they are exposed now.

 

[Kristi23]

John, Don't sweat it. Tammy & Kevin ruined any (if they had any to begin with) credibility when they made that post.

I agree and would do business with the op with no worries.

I do not know a single person who will guarantee an animal will produce babies. I can't tell you how many times I've had a $800-$1000 animal only produce slugs or one baby. Never once did I think to even complain to the breeder let alone demand a refund. It just doesn't work that way. You can't make an animal do what you want. It's a chance you take with every purchase.

And even if she had fertile eggs that hatched for the op, it doesn't guarantee that she'll do it again. No different than a person like me who had one kid and couldn't have more. Good thing my husband didn't try to return me.

 

[King_of_Colubrids]

Unfortunately, the "proof" is kind of what I was expecting.

In my humble opinion, Zorro not only did nothing wrong, he went incredibly far above and beyond in offering the refund after he realized his mistake after the first year.

Any individual that expects an unlimited guarantee that a female animal will produce viable offspring has a very unrealistic view of the breeding hobby. It simply doesn't work that way. You set your goals, you choose your animals, you do your best, and you watch the cookies crumble. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you don't badmouth someone else without a solid reason and good proof...

 

[Mystic Exotics]

Unfortunately, the "proof" is kind of what I was expecting.

In my humble opinion, Zorro not only did nothing wrong, he went incredibly far above and beyond in offering the refund after he realized his mistake after the first year.

Any individual that expects an unlimited guarantee that a female animal will produce viable offspring has a very unrealistic view of the breeding hobby. It simply doesn't work that way. You set your goals, you choose your animals, you do your best, and you watch the cookies crumble. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you don't badmouth someone else without a solid reason and good proof...

Yep! The "proof" enforced that John is an outstanding person to work with!

 

[Magic]

Kevin & Tammy----

There are 9 pages of garbage in this thread about you! Talk about reputation wrecking. I kinda feel like its karma. After the whisper smear campaign you took upon yourself to try and throw unearned shame on zorro.....now you've been exposed as whiny, never to be trusted, don't sell to or buy from people. Bad publicity you'll never be able to overturn.

What I see as character defining is that Zorro even tried to help you guys out after his guarantee ended. All you've done is cry and whine because the God of genetics and punnet squares hasn't given in to your demands. It MUST be someone else's fault. Couldn't possibly be yours or even just plain nature.

Crawl back into the hole you peeked out from, and get back to that super busy life you say you have.

Zorro- look forward to me purchasing a corn from you next year when I expand that section of mine.

 

[starsevol]

The thing is, these characters have totally forgettable nicknames, and I want people to remember. Tammy has been a cs.com member since 2010 and Kevin probably longer but they sure don't stand out.
I have been a member of cs.com since Sept 2005 and I don't remember a single post or anything by either one of them.

I really hope people remember this, and I hope this stunt affects them negitively for many years to come.

 

[Nanci]

I have been a member of cs.com since Sept 2005 and I don't remember a single post or anything by either one of them.

Kevin posts a lot. Perhaps you remember his nice pied bloodred clutch? Or his amel Tesseras?

 

[Lucille]

The thing is, these characters have totally forgettable nicknames, and I want people to remember. Tammy has been a cs.com member since 2010 and Kevin probably longer but they sure don't stand out.
I have been a member of cs.com since Sept 2005 and I don't remember a single post or anything by either one of them.

I really hope people remember this, and I hope this stunt affects them negitively for many years to come.

My impression of cs.com is of a close knit, high quality community. I'm sure that those who know of this incident will remember.
But by the very nature of that particular community they attract newbies because those who are new to corn snake keeping are often nurtured and advised. Those who are new will not always know of what transpired prior to their entry into the community.

So, in my opinion, the way to help people get information about Tammy and Kevin or to see if there is information about particular buyers or sellers in general, is to promote research on the BOI prior to any purchase or sale.

 

[starsevol]

Nanci, honestly I don't! Guess he just never impressed me all that much in the first place!!

And Lucille, thank you for the observation. We are pretty close knit, but we do send people this way quite a bit. (Also, I for one, have missed you over there. I always appreciated your views on things)

 

[Nanci]

And Lucille, thank you for the observation. We are pretty close knit, but we do send people this way quite a bit. (Also, I for one, have missed you over there. I always appreciated your views on things)

Which is why I hate seeing us get torn apart by this.

 

[exar15xe]

I didn't even do all of this John did, I didnt do anything, I didnt post anything or any kind of whisper bla bla, and all asked for by posting my proof was that john admit, maybe it was just a mistake or he forgot or whatever anything, and to defend that attacks made on me by all of you. But i see he won't and that's why he has done this to us because he couldn't in all our communications admit this mistake, or say anything not till there was a picture brought to light. Maybe its the males fault maybe it the females we wont know for sure till it can be proven that she cant breed. But, He will just sit back on his rep and seek his dogs out. So whatever, I never Asked for a guarantee on the animal that it would breed that's what you all are taking it as.
Everything is being construed into little bits to suit your opinions. I asked for honesty that was all. And Tammy nievley only wished for console from our supposed friends we had been friends with for some time on cs. The trouble makers have construed this all into the worst thing they could possibly make it out to be. So you can take her silly hearted attempts at having friends and twist them how ever you like to suit, I know you will.
We were warned and foolishly didn't listen how some people who make themselves obvious are, just a little high school click who can not be trusted, shame on you for being the soulless heartless people you were to her.
People know us, have dealt with us, have seen our animals in person and or where we keep them and seen them they know we are good people that take excellent care of our animals and operate with good ethics. That's all that matters, you trouble makers who have never seen us, our home, or animals in person mean little, just opinions of some drama queens, well opinions are like ***noses*** everyone's got one! and you can keep blabbering on about this till your purple it is just your blabber, not anything more, and that's why you keep saying ugly things and carrying on, no facts with proof just optioning of people whom have never met us, or even seen our animals.
I never even posted anything on cs but I love how its ok for someone else's post to all be squarely placed on my account over here on fauna, and leave me to be attacked and to have to defend myself. This is what I get for not saying anything for years about a unhappy occurrence. Thanks

 

[Kristi23]

You just make yourself look worse every time you post. I don't keep corns or know the op. You are being unreasonable in your demands for a refund after two years period. All the other drama has been caused by you. If I did sell corns, you would never be my customer. I'm positive you're going to be on many breeders do not sell to lists.

 

[Kristi23]

I also wonder if anyone can believe any of your stories about this female. No one really knows for sure that she didn't breed for you. Another reason why no one would give a refund after that long.

 

[SPJ]

So i guess in the Buyers view, every person ever bought a Female Desert Ball Python is due a refund!!!

You win some you lose some, its the joys of breeding animals.

Love it.

 

[elrojo]

Another reason why no one would give a refund after that long.

I would only add that being a co-dom trait, tessera prices dropped sharply every year. The snakes valued at $1,200 four years ago are worth about 10% of that now.

I'm sorry this has turned out this way, and I understand that Kevin didn't post the thread on CS that started this whole thing. I feel a bit sorry for him for having to put out a fire he didn't start, but if his wife isn't going to sign up and speak for himself, he feels he has to. Kevin, my best advice at this point is damage control. When every post is victim, blame, and sarcasm, it's hard to want to side with you. I mean no ill will when I say that, and I wish you the best with this female and your other projects.

 

[Spyral]

I didn't even do all of this John did, I didnt do anything, I didnt post anything or any kind of whisper bla bla, and all asked for by posting my proof was that john admit, maybe it was just a mistake or he forgot or whatever anything, and to defend that attacks made on me by all of you. But i see he won't and that's why he has done this to us because he couldn't in all our communications admit this mistake, or say anything not till there was a picture brought to light. Maybe its the males fault maybe it the females we wont know for sure till it can be proven that she cant breed. But, He will just sit back on his rep and seek his dogs out. So whatever, I never Asked for a guarantee on the animal that it would breed that's what you all are taking it as.
Everything is being construed into little bits to suit your opinions. I asked for honesty that was all. And Tammy nievley only wished for console from our supposed friends we had been friends with for some time on cs. The trouble makers have construed this all into the worst thing they could possibly make it out to be. So you can take her silly hearted attempts at having friends and twist them how ever you like to suit, I know you will.
We were warned and foolishly didn't listen how some people who make themselves obvious are, just a little high school click who can not be trusted, shame on you for being the soulless heartless people you were to her.

I understand you are frustrated at having spent a lot of money and time into a project that is not working out. However, do you think that may have made you twist this situation around to see what YOU want to see? Most people here don't see the first breeding and bad clutch as an issue. But you are having trouble with that female and maybe you are seeing some kind of conspiracy against you, that isn't really there.

The fact is, you had the opportunity to get a refund last year. For all the seller knows, refunding now may return a snake that has been damaged or become ill during her stay with you. It's a risk that as a business transaction would not be wise. There's nothing ethically wrong about this; he sympathized with you last year and would have done you an incredible favor in taking her back. It doesn't make sense that he would have knowingly tried to scam you and then refund you. The situation is not a good one but it is in now way the fault of the seller. I think you need to think about it from that perspective.

Tammy posted in a public forum, and although she didn't immediately disclose who the individual was, it's something that should have been confined to a private blog or facebook page. I am sorry that drama ensued, I can understand she feels betrayed but that shouldn't factor in to the issue of the transaction.

People know us, have dealt with us, have seen our animals in person and or where we keep them and seen them they know we are good people that take excellent care of our animals and operate with good ethics. That's all that matters, you trouble makers who have never seen us, our home, or animals in person mean little, just opinions of some drama queens, well opinions are like ***noses*** everyone's got one! and you can keep blabbering on about this till your purple it is just your blabber, not anything more, and that's why you keep saying ugly things and carrying on, no facts with proof just optioning of people whom have never met us, or even seen our animals.
I never even posted anything on cs but I love how its ok for someone else's post to all be squarely placed on my account over here on fauna, and leave me to be attacked and to have to defend myself. This is what I get for not saying anything for years about a unhappy occurrence. Thanks

Even good people make mistakes or act with poor judgement. This post is an info thread, and the way you handle the situation will give others information on dealing with you in the future. Do you want to portray yourselves as rational people who can take care of a business transaction without taking things personally if something goes wrong, or do you want to actively feed into the negativity with nasty retorts and self pity?

In the future, you and your wife should have separate accounts so that you don't feel forced into a situation such as this.

I do wish you well with the female, hopefully she is fully capable of producing for you in the future.

 

[Shiari]

My sister-in-law bought a pewter female as a birthday present for me from Carol two years ago as a breeding-size female.

The first year she slugged out, and I didn't know if it was her being a first timer, or if the male was the fertility issue.

This last year she slugged out again on the first clutch with the same male and the second clutch had a single 'fertile' egg that died a few days before it was due to hatch. It had congenital issues and a massively enlarged heart. The same male sired a clutch of 15 robust, ferocious hatchlings on a proven fertile female.

I am NOT going after Carol Huddleston because a female she sold me proved infertile. It's been two years, and nothing is guaranteed. Heck, I bought a moonstone motley from her last year and the booger refused to breed at all this year and she is *proven* fertile! These things happen.