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    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Tay Boon Chai Desmond(BAD GUY)

Neil Gubitz said:
Sure there would, Jim.... I've had dozens of people call me to say they wanted to trade their animal for mine.... It didn't matter to me who was on the phone, I didn't care what his name was or his phone number.... I just told him to send them, as soon as I received them, mine would go out.... IF the animal showed up, THEN I would call him and let him know if I accepted.... I've NEVER had a problem that way.... Especially when THEY make the OFFER OF TRADE???.... It's like poker.... I, "called you".... YOU have to show me FIRST....
There should never be a deal that you HAVE to have.... There will always be another deal right around the corner, if you're patient....

Neil
Click to expand...
So then on the off chance that you offered me a trade, and on the even more remote chance that I accepted you would be obligated to ship first. After all, "It's like poker.... I, 'called you'.... YOU have to show me FIRST".
 
This is my first time posting here, and to be really honest ever reading anything on this board.
Click to expand...

When you have time, read some of Neil's threads and you'll understand why you should take his posts with a grain of salt. When you get done with that, read some of his buddy Sal's posts from Upstate Exotics/Enclosures by Design/Boca Reptiles/Boca Morphs and you'll see the irony of him lecturing you about illegal shipping.

I don't understand why someone would attack someone who was scammed for thousands of dollars when the only reason that person is posting here is to prevent one of us from making the same mistake.
Sorry to hear about your loss and thanks for the warning.
 
Neil Gubitz said:
Chris.... I have to disagree.... Research doesn't matter in the least...Neil
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree. I believe research does matter. For instance, you and I arrange a trade. I ship first. You receive the animal and all looks fine. You ship. I now have your animal. For all you know, I could've sent you a stolen animal. I could have sent you a freshly IBD-exposed animal. I could have scammed you in multiple ways.

I do partially agree, though. You could dramatically reduce your likelyhood of being scammed by refusing to ship first, but this is by no means a guaranteed safeguard.

Regardless...research, whether buying or selling, is a good idea.


Chris
 
"I have to respectfully disagree. I believe research does matter. For instance, you and I arrange a trade. I ship first. You receive the animal and all looks fine. You ship. I now have your animal. For all you know, I could've sent you a stolen animal. I could have sent you a freshly IBD-exposed animal. I could have scammed you in multiple ways.

I do partially agree, though. You could dramatically reduce your likelyhood of being scammed by refusing to ship first, but this is by no means a guaranteed safeguard.

Regardless...research, whether buying or selling, is a good idea."
Chris

I agree 100%. That was a great post!
 
The road to Singapore is a long one. Sorry for the loss

basically whoever initiated the trade has the obligation of providing the fulfillment of the exchange first. It is also their obligation to insure any proper paperwork necessary to provide a smooth transition.

Apparently this type of fraud is difficult to pursue, but you may want to contact their embassy here in the states to see what avenues are open .
 
KNOBTAIL said:
basically whoever initiated the trade has the obligation of providing the fulfillment of the exchange first. It is also their obligation to insure any proper paperwork necessary to provide a smooth transition.

Apparently this type of fraud is difficult to pursue, but you may want to contact their embassy here in the states to see what avenues are open .
Click to expand...


Or better yet contact our Embassy in Singapore :)

Franklin L. Lavin
United States Ambassador to the Republic of Singapore
United States Embassy
27 Napier Road,
Singapore 258508
Tel: (65) 6476-9100
Fax: (65) 6476-9340
 
the Singapore embassy here in the US

has a commercial attache that will do the necessary contacting with their overseas counterpart. I would make known of the fact that this person has done this on more than 1 occasion and must be stopped. Get whatever written communications you can provide for your case as well as any other people who may have been contacted by this thief, and pass it along to the embassy. The Singapore embassy especially their commercial branch is very sensitive to any negative complaints from american companies.
 
Good idea. Knowing the laws in Singapore, if they catch him he will be dealt with rather harshly. Singapore takes its "good name" seriously.
 
Thank you all so much for the great help you have given me. I am going to call first thing on Monday, well, it is monday there now, but yeah. Thank you all so much!
 
Good idea. Knowing the laws in Singapore, if they catch him he will be dealt with rather harshly. Singapore takes its "good name" seriously.
Click to expand...
Isn't Singapore where they publicly "caned" that American kid who was caught spraying paint on a car?
Let Tay Boon know that you are going after him legally and maybe he will fold up like a wet rag. I bet those bamboo canes hurt like h3ll!
 
Casey Hulse said:
Isn't Singapore where they publicly "caned" that American kid who was caught spraying paint on a car?
Let Tay Boon know that you are going after him legally and maybe he will fold up like a wet rag. I bet those bamboo canes hurt like h3ll!
Click to expand...
Yes it is, and they were probably made of rattan, just as flexible as bamboo but much stronger (see http://www.stockroom.com/a282.htm). They also execute people for possession of drugs and other crimes for which people would receive minor punishment if any in this country.
 
Amanda@@!!

i would pretend this never happened--i would forget all about it and just chalk it up to experience. You can get in alot of trouble for just shipping the way you did. I am not pointing fingers or anything--we all make mistakes, but some people are in jail right now for shipping overseas that way and receiving animals that way. Thank god he ripped you off so to speak, as receiving the package with a python in it, could land you in some hot water. SO ---i would forget everything about this situation before usfw gets wind of it--they do lurk these boards and others.
 
Neil Gubitz said:
.. All that has to be done is NEVER SHIP FIRST.... This site is LOADED with that phrase
If they don't want to ship first , MOVE ON.... and this goes for shipping SAME DAY, too!!.... NEVER EVER EVER!!

Neil
Click to expand...

Neil, does this go for everyone??? What about people that are devoted to the hobby and have taken pride in building thier reputation over the years. You would never ship to them no matter who they are? How are you ever going to make any good deals that way, You have to trust somebody sometime. I always do my research on people first whether it be the BOI or the BBB or ask other breeders,wholesalers etc. in thier area about them until i am comfortable with the situation. And if they are just starting out or have a so/so reoputation I let them know the circumstances and only then do i tell them they "HAVE" to be the one to ship first. There are a lot of good people out there and if your going to be anal rententive about all trade transactions you will never get to do business with them.
 
Nicholas,

everyone is certainly entitled to their way of doing business. In this situation the overriding factor is good faith. But experience has shown that to many people get burned. A proponderance of unfaithful people prey upon the unsuspecting . Neil is not wrong, in his approach as to who has to ship first regardless of whom the trade is being conducted with.

What if the animal dies on route, what if the trade is not to ones satisfaction, and what if after all the necessary steps to protect your own interests, ..........get taken! Why take the risk. Why even barter at all.

Chances are some one will be dissatisfied. A rather unusual sideline. More people seem to place a higher standard on trading than purchasing. For those who find trading a worth while endeavor, I see nothing wrong as indicated in my earlier post that who ever initiates the trade , ships first.
 
"I see nothing wrong as indicated in my earlier post that who ever initiates the trade , ships first."

Jerry, I think you hit the nail on the head!
 
KNOBTAIL said:
A proponderance of unfaithful people prey upon the unsuspecting . Neil is not wrong, in his approach as to who has to ship first regardless of whom the trade is being conducted with.

What if the animal dies on route, what if the trade is not to ones satisfaction, and what if after all the necessary steps to protect your own interests, ..........get taken! Why take the risk. Why even barter at all.

Chances are some one will be dissatisfied. A rather unusual sideline. More people seem to place a higher standard on trading than purchasing. For those who find trading a worth while endeavor, I see nothing wrong as indicated in my earlier post that who ever initiates the trade , ships first.
Click to expand...

Lets try this again.

1)
KNOBTAIL said:
" A proponderance of unfaithful people prey upon the unsuspecting "
Click to expand...
- which is why i said
nicolai said:
"What about people that are devoted to the hobby and have taken pride in building thier reputation over the years.
Click to expand...
people that take pride in thier reputation dont prey on others!!!

2)
KNOBTAIL said:
Why even barter at all
Click to expand...
bartering has been gooing on since the begining.Why barter, to trade something you have for something you need or want more without either person being out of pocket
any cash.

3)
KNOBTAIL said:
More people seem to place a higher standard on trading than purchasing.
Click to expand...
to each his own. if some people are into that then who are we to tell them not to, or would you rather just pass a law ending trading.

4)
KNOBTAIL said:
What if the animal dies on route
Click to expand...
you decide the terms before you make the trade.

5)
KNOBTAIL said:
what if the trade is not to ones satisfaction,
Click to expand...
you decide before hand if what the other person is offering is to your satisfactio and if it isnt then you dont trade.

6)
KNOBTAIL said:
I see nothing wrong as indicated in my earlier post that who ever initiates the trade , ships first.
Click to expand...
I would go along with this as well, but neil said no matter who it was or who initiated it he would not ship first for any reason.

7)
KNOBTAIL said:
what if after all the necessary steps to protect your own interests, ..........get taken!
Click to expand...
See my answer to question #1.

8)
KNOBTAIL said:
Chances are some one will be dissatisfied.
Click to expand...
why would someone be dissatisfied. You have all the time in the world before the trade to decide whether or not you are happy with your end of the trade. If you dont like your end dont do it, if you do then make the trade.


To make a long story short, every oldtimer in the hobby has done his share of trading over the years in order to aquire animals he wouldnt have been able to obtain otherwise. Do you realize how limited the hobby would be today if no one traded things back and forth in the old days.Trading has always been around and always will.Lets not limit our hobby more then it already has been.
 
Nicholas, bartering is not as old as you suggest.

It certainly was NOT done when we were in business, by anyone. Basically because the animals were so inexpensive their was no reason to trade when you could buy. Secondly, the trade was not open to individuals as they are today.

People are getting hurt because they do not know whom they are dealing with even when they buy, forget trading. Monies are lost daily to good people who get attracted to these vermon that plague this industry and are drawn to it like honey is to flies. This also holds true for bartering.

I am not suggesting that all deals should be put under a magnification, but please dont tell me how "every oldtimer" has done his share of trading, because that is not the case at all. The fact remains, trading today is risky business, and I dont care who trades, with whom. Common sense dictates to be careful regardless of any reputation that you may hear of. As a matter of fact, the greater the reputation, the less likely I would be willing to trade. This is just my opinion.
 
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