Tentative list of membership options.

[Vince]

nothin wrong with that, are you going to use money to advertise the site? like ads in mags? it would attract new paying members as well as shoppers.

 

[WebSlave]

nothin wrong with that, are you going to use money to advertise the site? like ads in mags? it would attract new paying members as well as shoppers.

Depends on whether this works or not. I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

 

[Sasheena]

chickens before they hatch

Now you're raising chickens?

I'm looking forward to the changes.

 

[Wraith]

I guess I am just daft but, I still just don't get why you want to limit posting on the BOI solely to people who pay. I understand the concept of getting rid of trolls, but I doubt it will work well. I can register multiple email addresses with PayPal, and pay that way using those multiple accounts if I wanted to be a true pain in the butt.

I really don't get it either.

It is the BOI that has made the rest of this site even possible. As a business model, the last thing you want to do is lock people out of the primary objective that draws them to the site in the first place. If someone gets scammed and they want to warn people about it, they will now have to decide if it's worth it to them to get scammed a second time by having to pay for the privilage to post about their experience here or they can take their business elsewhere. Chasing your customer base away is simply not good for business. It is not a matter of who is more loyal to the site than someone else or who has the money to pay for their "show of loyalty". Loyalty and support and respect should never be confused with money. Considering all the other options that were offered and ignored, the only conclusion I can come to is that this is nothing more than a setup for the site to crash and burn. Once the site is shut down no more headaches to deal with right?

Adrian

 

[WebSlave]

I really don't get it either.

It is the BOI that has made the rest of this site even possible. As a business model, the last thing you want to do is lock people out of the primary objective that draws them to the site in the first place. If someone gets scammed and they want to warn people about it, they will now have to decide if it's worth it to them to get scammed a second time by having to pay for the privilage to post about their experience here or they can take their business elsewhere. Chasing your customer base away is simply not good for business. It is not a matter of who is more loyal to the site than someone else or who has the money to pay for their "show of loyalty". Loyalty and support and respect should never be confused with money. Considering all the other options that were offered and ignored, the only conclusion I can come to is that this is nothing more than a setup for the site to crash and burn. Once the site is shut down no more headaches to deal with right?

Adrian

People who pay nothing to be here are NOT "customers". So how can I be chasing away "customers"? If people are not willing to pay for the services offered here, then I really don't have to worry about customers at all, now do I?

Quite simply put, if I am expected to get nothing in return for my time and efforts, then I will do things much more enjoyable to spend my time and efforts doing. So if my choices are:

(1) Keep everything for free and work myself into the ground as I have been, providing for this site with no appreciable return for my efforts,

or

(2) Charge a modest fee, which if it is acceptable, will keep this site up and running, or else just let it go and then be free to pursue other interests in my *free* time.

Guess which one is the most sane path for me to follow?


I am certainly appreciative of some of the people here who feel that my time and efforts are of no value and it is expected of me to continue to keep taking my time, effort, and money to provide YOU with the benefits of this site for free. Quite frankly, if this site is not worth $10 to you, be gone. I really could not care less about it. For the last several years, MANY things I have been wanting to do with my time have not gotten done. So either this site becomes worthwhile to ME to continue, or I really don't need it at all. If YOU feel you need it, well then, YOU have to now prove it. If you DON'T need it either, then there is no problem, now is there? We ALL agree that this site has no value to anyone, and I certainly have no reason at all to continue with it at my own sole expense and efforts.

I believe that this is actually a very easy decision for people to make. A vote of confidence, of sorts..... But a SERIOUS vote, however, not just some hokey poll that is of no real consequence. THIS vote will have consequences.

 

[Vince]

this is beating a dead horse ever thread about the changes ends up the same. suck it up people 10 bucks for a year! you can post classifieds for 10 right? I have worked to hard and gone over way to many bumps to not have a site like this to sell my animals on when that time comes. Fauna has helped me become a better person mostly becuse i learnd not to react like a jackaz when something happens. my reactions not only on here are better but are way better in real life, and how could you put a price on that?

 

[Sasheena]

That poor horse is thinner than 6-month old road kill, it's been beaten so much... but here, let me have a whack at it anyway...

The primary value in the BOI is the ability to find out if the person you intend to send your hard-earned money to is in fact a "Good Guy" or a "Bad Guy". Whether you are bill jones down the road or super-duper-member of the site, you only need to be registered (no money changes hands) to be able to read the BOI. THAT's FREE. THAT's VALUE.

IF you have more to offer to the world in general, and to the site in specific, you eventually try to decide if paying the $10 is worth it to you. If you don't feel it's worthwhile, then okay, that's the end of the story.

Now... will one or two crooks fall through the cracks? probably... But if Mr. Bad Guy steals enough money from enough people, he'll be tagged on the BOI.

Will the podunk "he forget to give me my 40 cents in change so I think he's the worst bad guy in the universe" threads become fewer? Hopefully.

The net result of what is going to happen is:

(a) The site will die a quick, quiet death -- killed by the fee.

or

(b) The site will suddenly become more serious, the jerks, spoofers, flamers-over-nothing, and vindictive petty arguments will become fewer and less common, people will start to sit up and say: "Hey, that BOI isn't a JOKE" and the site will move on to a new level of maturity and acceptability.

I happen to believe, with the amount of thought and care that has gone into the site, that option (b) in one form or another will be the true result.

YES... some people will get all freaked out and miserable and leave because they can't do what they've always done for free anymore. Ah well. I think the biggest point is that those who want something ONLY for nothing, and will NEVER be a contributing member, will GO BYE BYE and this is a GOOD thing.

Long Live Fauna.

 

[Vince]

If you trim a bush, it will be thin but eventualy it will grow back bigger , thicker, and stronger.

 

[Wraith]

People who pay nothing to be here are NOT "customers". So how can I be chasing away "customers"? If people are not willing to pay for the services offered here, then I really don't have to worry about customers at all, now do I?

Quite simply put, if I am expected to get nothing in return for my time and efforts, then I will do things much more enjoyable to spend my time and efforts doing.

Nobody is saying that you should be expected to get absolutely nothing for your time and effort. Nobody is saying that you should keep the entire site as "free". It's the choice as to where the money should be coming from that is insane. Making people pay for the extra bells and whistles of the forums features and toys versus a basic plain schematic - that is understandable. Those that WANT them will pay for them. Those that don't want them don't have worry cause they wouldn't have them. Making people pay to post classified ads or run advertising banners is again understandable - those people are investing in chance of making a profit off that for their business. But, making people pay to post how they got scammed by someone? You do nothing but scam them a second time of their hard earned money.

Support and respect is earned - not bought. Making people pay to physically show their support to this site? If people want to pay to show their support isn't that what the donation/contribution feature is for? People do not have to pay you to show their support to this site. The very fact that you have people visiting this site every day shows you their support. If they didn't support this site to some extent then they wouldn't be coming here now would they. Without those people just simply coming here and racking up the numbers, this site would be nothing.

The BOI is what attracts the people here and keeps them coming back for more. The people attract the advertisers. The advertisers is where your money is. Lock the people out of the BOI and you chase them away. Once the level of people visiting the site drops below a certain level, you start to chase away your advertisers because their chance for profit from their advertising investments has dropped below acceptable levels. Your discussion forums are not the draw here - it is the BOI. Making people pay to use the BOI is bad for business all around.


Adrian

 

[Wraith]

If you trim a bush, it will be thin but eventualy it will grow back bigger , thicker, and stronger.

ah, but if you trim a bush the wrong way you can end up killing it by mistake.


Adrian

 

[Sasheena]

Making people pay to use the BOI is bad for business all around.

Well, we'll see, won't we?

 

[Vince]

it is very good for bussiness for the owner of the site, CHAAA CHING

 

[WebSlave]

Time and time again I have heard people say "Oh the BOI has saved me money" or "The BOI is an INVALUABLE service" or "The BOI has done more then anything else to help clean up this business".

Well, time to put your money where your mouth is.

And quite honestly, look at this from a business standpoint. If you had a service based business, what do you charge for? Do you charge only for the services that are not in high demand and people just use them because they are there, or do you charge for that service which is of the most value to everyone who walks in the door and the MAIN reason they stopped by? If I ONLY charged for those ancillary services, what exactly do you THINK would happen?

 

[Python Dreams]

I kinda agree with Adrian in the fact that I think the BOI will be less effective once it becomes a membership site. I think using the term scammed a second time or scam in anyway related to the fee is ridiculous though. Posting is a priviledge regardless, and if Rich wants to make it a membership site it is a choice not a scam. I also think that calling people that disagree with the fee for BOI posting "cheap" is probably not anywhere near the truth. Some people feel that once you have to pay to post your experience, positive or negative, they will just not post. I feel that this will probably be the case, but time will tell. I also feel that with all the honor points and the new good guy list, it just seems like a big group hug type membership site than anything. Even having to post this in the BOI for people to read kinda shows that some of the other forums, besides creating more work, are just not needed.
I have so many questions about the future of Fauna, but I'm too tired to even think about it, and I dont think they were ever even answered the last couple times I tried. Well see what happens, and I will probably end up contributing eventually, just once the waters settle.
Tom Baker

 

[Python Dreams]

And quite honestly, look at this from a business standpoint. If you had a service based business, what do you charge for? Do you charge only for the services that are not in high demand and people just use them because they are there, or do you charge for that service which is of the most value to everyone who walks in the door and the MAIN reason they stopped by? If I ONLY charged for those ancillary services, what exactly do you THINK would happen?
__________________

I think of it like a shopping mall. You create a nice clean environment for people to come and enjoy food and shopping, maybe some stuff for kids to play on. If its nice enough you will rent out every single space. If you started charging admission, I dont think it would be too busy... The only time people would come is when they definitely need something, which would lose sales in the food court and the impulse buys which would lead to store owners closing shop. I hope I'm wrong, but that is kinda my prediction.
Tom Baker

 

[WebSlave]

I have so many questions about the future of Fauna, but I'm too tired to even think about it, and I dont think they were ever even answered the last couple times I tried. Tom Baker

Sorry Tom, but I think you can see how much time I have already put in trying to answer most questions posted here. I just flat out cannot put in a 26 hour day trying to cover every one of them. THIS is not my life, you know?

 

[Wraith]

Time and time again I have heard people say "Oh the BOI has saved me money" or "The BOI is an INVALUABLE service" or "The BOI has done more then anything else to help clean up this business".

Well, time to put your money where your mouth is.

The BOI has saved me not one single cent in business transactions therefore it is not what I would consider an invaluable service to me in that regard. The so called "value" I derive from this site is one that cannot be stated in monetary terms. So tell me, where should I be getting all this money that I supposedly saved from my use of this site in order to put it where my mouth is?


Adrian

 

[Wraith]

I think of it like a shopping mall. You create a nice clean environment for people to come and enjoy food and shopping, maybe some stuff for kids to play on. If its nice enough you will rent out every single space. If you started charging admission, I dont think it would be too busy... The only time people would come is when they definitely need something, which would lose sales in the food court and the impulse buys which would lead to store owners closing shop. I hope I'm wrong, but that is kinda my prediction.

That is a very good anaology. The BOI is what draws people to this website on a regular basis. Once the people are here for a while enjoying what they find then they make use of the other services provided. That is what the advertisers bank on when they decide they want to INVEST their money into this site. Take away that incentive for people to come here and you lose attendence. Without enough people coming here and simply using the site, why should any advertiser want to risk wasting their investment here? They will go where the money is.


Adrian

 

[WebSlave]

The BOI has saved me not one single cent in business transactions therefore it is not what I would consider an invaluable service to me in that regard. The so called "value" I derive from this site is one that cannot be stated in monetary terms. So tell me, where should I be getting all this money that I supposedly saved from my use of this site in order to put it where my mouth is?


Adrian

Well that is an incredibly simple answer. If you don't need to post in the BOI, nor in any of the other forums and classifieds that require a $10 payment, then you don't need to pay for a paid membership.

So what exactly is that "value" that you speak of? And exactly what is it worth to you in dollars and cents? How does this compare to what my time is worth to me in order to maintain this site and manage it? MOST of my time involves around issues on the BOI. So from that standpoint alone, just why shouldn't I charge people for accessing the area where the majority of my workload will come from?

Quite frankly, you will have a choice to make. If those functions you have to pay for are not worth it to you, then don't. If they are, well then you pay for them. If a fair number of people decide that this site IS worth paying for to keep, then it stays. If they don't, well, too bad, I guess. I have a good chunk of my life back that has been frittered away for nothing here of any value to anyone else.

Simple, wasn't it?

 

[riverjop]

Ok...some very valid points!
What if there was some sort of compromise, and you changed it so that anyone could at least view the BOI but not everyone could post?

Also on another note (and this is just my humble opinion) We all know that you are getting burned out on all that has to be done at fauna, I Think I sorta know what you are going thru, (having run a 12,000 sq ft Retail store for 25 years and getting so burned out that I basically just closed it in So. CAl. & moved to N. Idaho)...Wheeeew!!! Anyway I think there are things that you could do to streamline your responsibilities! To make your life more "manageable" And there is one definite thing I see as a waste (remember in my opinion....it could be a huge money maker...I seriously doubt it) GET RID of some things first and foremost HerpWantAds! Other things may be the new classifieds...either switch to the new completely or dump it! It's just to confusing, not to mention time consuming to go through all these. ONE OR THE OTHER!!! Im sure there are other things that you may have been thinking about! Look the less you have to think about when you wake up each morning the less drain of time and energy it is on you!
Now in saying that I really don't give a rats ass what you do I will pay whatever, because I know it's worth it....I've been here!!!! It's the new people that you have to worry about, they are the ones that will continue to keep Fauna going...you will always need new blood.....think about it it's like breeding reptiles!!!