Terms of Sale Anger

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I always thought the Not Responsible for Carrier Delays meant that even if it was late that the buyer still had to stay home to receive the package to keep the Live Arrival Guarantee & that the seller wouldn't be responsible for lost wages if say the buyer was scheduled for second shift but the delivery was delayed and the Buyer had to miss work to sign for the package (in order to keep the Alive Arrival Guarantee).

This is exactly what my "not responsible for carrier error" clause means. It also means that I shouldn't be blamed for what the carrier does. Anyone who defines the clause as if the animal gets killed because of the carrier they won't refund, is a jerk.

 

[rosebud945]

This is exactly what my "not responsible for carrier error" clause means. It also means that I shouldn't be blamed for what the carrier does. Anyone who defines the clause as if the animal gets killed because of the carrier they won't refund, is a jerk.

But as a seller, do you issue a refund or replacement if an animal dies due to carrier mishap? I think that is what we are debating here.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

If the animal is DOA (with photo proof) and signed for (or I'm notified within a reasonable amount of time - 2 hours would be reasonable), yes.

How I read it was that some people are assuming that "not responsible for carrier error" means that the seller won't stand by their live arrival guarantee if their is a carrier problem.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Mine currently specifically says "We are not responsible for shipping delays caused by Mother Nature or mechanical problems with the shipper, however, we will do everything in our power to locate a delayed package and get it moving on its way." I should probably add a sentence to the clause that clarifies that live arrival is still guaranteed as long as I am notified of DOA within two hours of arrival...It never occurred to me that people were assuming that a live arrival isn't guaranteed.

 

[rosebud945]

Have you really been blamed for a customer's lost wages, or did you add this clause to your TOS because you saw it as part of someone elses TOS, and used it like I might do? I am not being derogatory, I promise! LOL! I really am curious, because I know that people do pick up terms from other TOS that they see and think are good ideas. There is nothing wrong with that, but the chance that the original intent of that particular stipulation getting confused or lost is great!

There are sellers that fall back on this statement to get out of replacing or refunding in cases in which the carrier mishandling caused the death of the animal.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I couldn't really tell you if I saw it on someone else's TOS. My TOS really hasn't changed drastically in a good 5+ years.

The whole point of me stating that is because I want it made clear that I don't control the carrier so please don't come yelling and screaming at me (which has happened). I haven't been blamed for lost wages, but I have been bitched at for a customer having to take off an extra day of work (or go in late). In addition, if they want the live guarantee, then they still need to be there when it arrives...Not shirk out of signing for the animal and leave it on their porch to die because of carrier delay, and then expect me to still replace it.

I've only lost one animal due to carrier mishap (knock on wood). I refunded the money immediately without proof when he called me because the package was 2 days late in the dead of winter. He was very upset (not angry, sad) about the dead gecko and I didn't bother to ask for proof because I knew it was highly unlikely the gecko survived at all.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

I have heard people say they were entitled to a full refund because a box was delayed(by the carrier) and did not arrive overnight. Even though the animal arrived alive, and nothing seemed wrong with it, they still decided that they wanted a full refund(or partial refund in another case), just because the box was delayed.

I myself would guess that "not responsible for carrier delays or mishaps" only means that the package might be delayed, or scuffed, or lost temporaily, but NOT that I would then not be responsible should the animal not arrive, or arrive dead. If the box gets delayed, and the animals dies in transit, it did not arrive alive, therefor, I(as seller) would then be responsible for a full refund(including shipping) or a replacement(shipped at my expense since they've already paid for XX animal to be shipped to them).

I think live arrival is a decent TOS, if you trust the seller to be a honest person. If it's someone I do not know, I will look for a longer guarentee than just "live arrival", because I know *I* won't kill the animal through idiotcy then try to claim it's the seller's fault. I don't know that the seller(who is a stranger to me) will not ship me a sick or dying animal, then claim "live arrival" was all they were responsible for.
Sellers I trust, I will not be bothered by just a "live arrival" TOS, since I know they will make right any issues that are their fault.

Amphibians, I would NEVER buy any animal, of any kind, that did not AT LEAST guarentee Live Arrival. I would wait and get the animal at a show, or not get it, rather than buy something that isn't even guaranteed to be alive when it reaches me.

ALSO... I always use the phrase "If you don't like their TOS, don't buy from them". You do not have the right to dictate anyone's TOS to them. You do have the right to not buy from them. Buying from someone, and THEN turning around and complaining that they do not go "over and above" their TOS to fix an issue you have, is being a whiney PITA. If they only guarentee live arrival, and the animal dies three weeks later, don't whine that they should then replace the animal. Also, don't send emails praising how perfect the animal is, then try to claim a week later that it arrived listless and near death.

Most good sellers WILL go above and beyond their TOS when something goes wrong that is not the buyer's fault. Look for good sellers, instead of the lowest price, and most times you'll have a good deal.

 

[Southern Wolf]

However, if it can be proven that the customer is not home to collect and sign for the package or gives permission for the package to be left and the package is damaged on or stolen from the customer's door step, then the shipping guarantee should be null, but I imagine that the seller has to put that stipulation in writing.

And thus the reason I have this in my TOS

All shipments will require that you be present to sign for them, Please arrange to have someone available to sign for the package upon arrival on the first delivery attempt. All shipments are sent “signature required”… NO EXCEPTIONS.

If you have a waiver signed with FedEx such as “Signature Release on File” you are specifically giving them carte blanche to drop your package wherever the driver chooses outside without alerting you and getting your signature. If this happens due to such a release being on file, your Live Arrival Guarantee will be null and void… NO EXCEPTIONS. I have no way to verify that someone was actually present to accept the package, and it could have been sitting outside on your porch for hours in direct sunlight before it was brought inside. In short, if you have such a release on file… CANCEL IT.

IF someone has a signature release on file... that is what will show up when fed ex sends me the delivery notice (right where the signature SHOULD be)

 

[hhmoore]

It has, however, been shown numerous times that people can be categorized as "signature release on file" without realizing it or ever having requested it.

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

It has, however, been shown numerous times that people can be categorized as "signature release on file" without realizing it or ever having requested it.

as well as "left on doorstep" when the driver directly hands it to you

 

[Twizted Paths]

as well as "left on doorstep" when the driver directly hands it to you

Left on porch is what they put down for the last bunch of babies I got. The driver never even made it to my porch, I met her at the sidewalk.
The seller even commented on it when I called to thank them

What about shipping them "Adult Signature Required", don't they have to get a physical signature then?

 

[Southern Wolf]

not if you have a signature release on file.

 

[Shadera]

Does anyone have terms they could post here or link to their terms page maybe if they don't mind others looking at them and possibly using bits?

 

[shrap]

Because of the complete and total unprofessionaism (ex: it says "Left On Porch" in the tracking when you damn well signed for it) with every shipping company out there, I have adopted the policy of requiring a phone call or email within one hour of the delivery time listed on the tracking page or the Live Arrival Guarantee is null and void. As a buyer I have always called/emailed the seller simply as a common courtesy anyway. A little peace of mind for everyone.

2 minutes of direct communication can save hours of BS. It makes no sense not to call or email when we all damn well know that we cant count on a damn thing the shipping companies say or do. They have to be one of the most inconsistent industries I have ever dealt with in my life. So I try to eliminate their involvement in my TOS as much as possible.

 

[shrap]

Does anyone have terms they could post here or link to their terms page maybe if they don't mind others looking at them and possibly using bits?

Scroll to the bottom. http://www.sammygreggreptiles.com/available.html

You will notice it is pretty simplistic. On purpose. I personally dont try to make my TOS too black and white nor do I try to cover every possible scenario out there. I know a TOS is there to cover asses legally blah blah blah.... I just dont give a crap. I personally will take an honest mans word and handshake over any TOS put into print.

Am I leaving myself open for a scumbag to try to take advantage? Sure. But as I already said, I dont give a crap. But that is me and I am comfortable doing things my way. Some people are more comfortable with a more in depth and detailed TOS. Whatever works best for you as a seller. Its all good.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Shadera, feel free to look at my terms for inspiration. While not as simplistic as Sammy's, I believe it covers most cases you may come against.

 

[Uroboros]

How open source are your TOS's? If they're not, I'm totally stealing Sammy's.

 

[hhmoore]

My terms are a little longer, the current version is somewhat shortened...and I will probably be consolidating it a bit more. I did opt to spell things out as specifically as possible, mainly because of some of my past experiences.
While my terms are fairly specific, they are not set in stone. When I have gone against my TOS, though, it has always been in the customer's favor (ie, returning deposits, or funds from an aborted payment plan)

 

[Shadera]

Thanks for sharing those, guys. No matter how many times I've gone over and redone mine, I can't get them to feel right. I mean, I know what I want to say, but then I am unable to get it across without sounding like a total ya know? I'd cover darn near anything and have covered stuff in the past that wasn't anywhere near being my fault just because that's the way I am, and I hate to have to have a TOS in the first place but I feel like if I don't protect myself. Well. You know.

 

[Twizted Paths]

That's why I have drafts scattered everywhere. I want to be fair and do right but I don't want to be taken advantage of either.

I like the mandatory call/e-mail, so simple & common sense! No wonder I didn't think of it.

I always call or at least e-mail the seller once I check the animal out. Just seems like common courtesy.

Thanks for sharing those. I'm going to scrap mine and just start over again.