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Terry Lilley - Tried selling me my own animal

Even better, why would anyone in the US buying them care about the CITES paperwork since it has no value here? "International". If he has CITES paperwork from Duncan in Indonesia, where he buys the monitors from, it would just be paperwork for peachthroats as like Corey said, if it were not described there could be no CITES documents. Really bright. Evan Stahl
 
anyone else see that? How do you legally get cites papers for a species that has not be described?
Click to expand...

There are two possibilities:

1.) They were exported under a name of a described species of monitor. They've done this quite a bit in the past on new species being exported from Indonesia that fall under CITES II classification.

2.) A name was given to them posing as the scientific name. Being that the Indonesian government works willingly with Duncan’s farm, this one seems just as likely as the one above. You may argue this fact saying that no quotas were issued for this new "species" and published in the 2003 quotas. Simple answer, it's not needed. They will regularly only publish quotas for animals that are heavily traded and animals that will likely be exported in fair numbers. While some countries like Tanzania usually only go under published quotas, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Uganda are commonly known for exporting animals that are not listed on any public CITES quotas.

Thanks
Justyn
 
Are those the "finschi"?

Option 1 is probably how they came in, opotion 2 is doubtful as cites doesnt recognize this species yet.
 
Justyn, that is what I was saying when I said they came in as peachthroats. All of the undescribed stuff from indo has either been shipping in as waters, blue tails or peachthroats the past couple years. That said, the CITES paperwork actually makes the animals less desirable and less valuable to most people who wouldn't know the difference if there is any. Evan Stahl
 
Darin Chappell

** Your Quote**

"You know, it's one thing to shoot yourself int he foot. It's quite another to pull the trigger, knowing that your foot is lodged in your mouth at the time!!!"


that was the funniest phrase i have ever seen in my life! good job. lol.

Rowdy Kent
New World Reptiles
 
Perhaps it is just me, but that animal doesn't look very different from any other peach-throat I've ever seen(probably about 50 or so now), and how is Lilley supposed to prove these animals are from a new island locality? Is Mr. Lilley going to send collection data along with those CITES papers? I mean, not trying to be rude or insult those locality buffs, but how are we supposed to take his word they are from a new locality without any verification of the actual collection site?

And is it me, or if he is importing a "new species" as a different described species, couldn't it possibly screw up quotas on the known animals?
 
Rob, using up quotas for a cheap animal to get you a more expensive one is not a new trick and one that is used alot. Figure, if you buy a peachthroat or bluetail from Indo it is a $50-75 animal at best, that sells here for double that on a good day. So instead, you bring in something different. You paid more fro it but are still getting 2-3xs your money and the dollar figure is much bigger. So really they could care a less about the quota. Just like in Africa, you can ship a normal baby ball or a pied. They are both ball pythons and require the same cites documentation. There is much more profit on the pied.

On your other question, Terry will not give you anything as he does not know anything except what he is told. He is not there. He does not collect them. You can contact the guys in Indo and get the locality info though. Evan Stahl
 
Evan,

I know that bringing in more expensive animals as something cheaper is a common trick. What I was curious about though, is does this kind of thing screw with the set quotas on the species they are being imported as?

On normal vs pied ball pythons, that is different as they are both the same species and fall under the same quotas. But when you are declaring one species as a different species or an unknown as a known species, then to me at least that amounts to smuggling. And just by chance let's say, you brought in a bunch of Bengal monitors(just an example) as peach-throats, and USFWS came knocking for some reason, you'd be somewhat SOL because you couldn't prove their origins, and the only paperwork you'd have(assuming any was provided at all) would be for peach-throats.

Anyway, just my thoughts. And again, I'm not an expert on peach-throats, but I've seen a bunch of them and those animals don't look like anything overly different from the rest from what I can see.
 
I was just about to purchase a pair of Womas from Mr. Lilly until a fellow Herper told me about his reputation and made me aware of this board. Needless to say, after what I read, he did not get my money! I informed him I would not be making the purchase and I explained why. He said he did not know what I was talking about and that he has sold to many happy customers in his 22 years of experience. He notes Michael Jackson to be one of those happy customers. Yeah Terry, that will really help the old reputation! He states that the only people upset with him are other dealers that cannot compete. I could not believe he would even defend himself as he did knowing that I must have read all about his shortcomings. Anyway, thanks to all of you guys for the heads up.

Kyle Walker
 
Terry Lilley Is not trustworthy at all.

A few years back I had seen a European classified ad for a Blue-tongued skink that was possibly leucistic. The guy was named Berry and he was in the U.K. The guy was not too sure what he had, but felt it was different, and that it was worth 1200.00 dollars. I am somewhat knowledgable on the topic of Tiliqua, so I e-mailed Berry and asked him for pics. After he sent me a couple of pics, I then called him. I told him his Skink was not leucistic, but was a silver phase Tanimbar Island Blue-tongued Skink Tiliqua scincoides chimaerea and a nice looking one at that! I told him that it was most likely a female. I then asked him a little about it's history. He told me that he had purchased it about 2 months earlier at a reptile expo in Germany, and that the seller told him that it was a fresh import. I asked about its temperment (already knowing the answer), and he said it was the devil himself. I chuckled a little, knowing that imported Tanimbars are exactly that. They are, more often than not, truely wicked. Anyway, While I was considering purchasing this lovely skink to breed to a similar male that my friend owned, I noticed a new ad on Kingsnake for a leucistic Blue-tongued skink for $2400.00 that Terry Lilley had posted. I asked Terry for pics and details. He told me that it was captive bred animal that was tame and doing great in his care! When I looked at the pics, they were the same ones Berry had sent to me. I called Berry, and asked him if anyone else had contacted him about the skink. He said yes, a fellow named Terry Lilley was interested, but would only offer him $800.00 dollars for it. Berry was not interested in selling it for that price. I told him about the ad of Terry's, and Berry was one mad Brit. I ended up deciding against the skink and that all of the terry lilley stories that I had heard in the past were probably true. Here is the funny part. While writting this post, I just recieved one of Terry Lilley's mass e-mails about his rare reptile specials! I reoprted it to AOL as spam...

James Wilson
 
Well, if you run into some guy billing himself as "[email protected]
charles clifford
122 brown loop
harleyville,sc 29448
843-225-2777 wk
943-462-2703 hm

This is NOT the legitimate business of that name. And this guy is probably some toothless junkie that uses people's interest in herps as a way to get a fix. Don't trust him-he is a ripoff and a liar
 
terry lilley

Name sounds familiar. Ordered a female blairs back in the 70's. Took over 3 months before I got the animal. He had more excuses than a politician, including the old reliable, shipped to the wrong address, snake escaped and
loose in the house. Snake looked like it had seen better days and much older than advertised.
I've seen his name bounced around many times. He also moves a lot.

Mike :NoNo:
 
This is the same guy who tried selling coastal carpets"het" for jaguar and even went so far as to say he would sign an affidavit stating the pair would produce jaguar carpets when bred to each other....lol!
Jamey
 
Two years ago I ALMOST bought an adult Emerald Tree Boa from Mr.Lilley. He told me it was CBB, in good health and an excellent feeder. He sent me pics. I had seen those same exact pics on the kingsnake forum months before. I contacted the original pic poster and they told me they had no idea Terry Lilley was using their pics! I confronted Mr.Lilley and of course he told me he had tens of thousands of animals and thousands of pics and someone must have stolen his pic! He told me he would take new pics, I told him to get lost_ YOU ARE A LIAR MR LILLEY!!!!
DO NOT BUY FROM TERRY LILLEY!
 
Ed ....

Tonight I read every page of this thread and unfortunately Mr. Lilley bowed out early on, after some hefty boasting and tall tales, leaving many legitimate questions unanswered.
The only thing really gleaned from this thread Ed, regardless of your recent transaction, is this is a man to avoid. He obviously is a liar. Case in point, his boast .. I mean lie ... about his Woma laying eggs:
Post #21, dated 3-7-2003 on page 5 of this thread, by Terry
Also this week my Womas laid eggs for the sixth year in a row! Please see photos.
Click to expand...
He then posted a photo as "proof". Well, here's a screenshot I did tonight after I pulled the EXIF data of his photo. The red arrows are mine, showing when the photo was actually taken and when he modified it, only one day prior to his post here.
The EXIF data doesn't lie. Terry Lilley clearly does.
It may not even have been his photo, but even if it was, it sure as hell wasn't taken the week he claimed his Woma layed.

~ Laura Bolt
 

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Point taken LauraB

I am just reporting on a recent good transaction.

I treat others as they treat me and Terry was honest.
 
I have not posted on here in a long time but this just brought me back. Terry, after calling me names and on several occassions threatening to sue me for mentioning how he rips people off (in this very thread I think), contacted me on one of my kingsnake adds and wanted to buy snakes from me! It was very clearly posted as "Evan Stahl" was the seller of the animals and still I get the typical 'big shooter' Terry email telling me that he is looking for 100 or more of the animal for export.

After I stop laughing I send him and email back: "Terry, please read the names on posts before you contact people. I am not interested in doing any business with you. thanks. Evan Stahl"

He responds: "Hi Even,

Thanks for the email. I send out over 400 emails a week and have over 1,000 good clients. Hard to remember who is who and I do not even know who you are. That is why you have a delete button on your computer. Have a great day and be happy.
Cheers,
Terry"


So I would like to take this opportunity to once again, officially nominate Terry Lilley for the prestigious, Biggest Douche In The Universe award!
 
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