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The Disturbing Trend of Price Slashing in the reptile hobby/industry

F

Fred Albury

Aztec Fred
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I've noticed an alarming trend lately, that being breeders and private parties selling their reptiles WELL BELOW market value.
And the domino effect, of other people seeing the price drop and adjusting their price even LOWER. This is good news for the folks in society who want to buy snake type X, but dont have the money, but for those that put up the money in volume to invest in a rare snake...its a disaster. I myself have succumbed to this same problem, felt empty inside as I watched snakes march out my door, snakes that I have had kept for a year or more and sold them for less than I paid for them. I say all this to let you know its affected me too.

What do you think?
Yes, we can talk market value and supply and demand, but what I am talking about is people just dumping the prices.Yes, its theirs and they can do with it what they want. But...it seems that it is just happening wholesale nowadays......or is it just my perception?

I appreciate your feedback...everyone join in..


FRED ALBURY

AZTEC REPTILES
 
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Wouldn't this subject be more appropriate in the General Business Discussions forum?? Just a thought.

Jason Brennan
 
Dang Fred
Jason got you before me, he is right , this would be more appropriate in the discussion end of this site and I bet some topic related replies will come
peace
 
Coming from the hobbyist's point of view I have to say it's great. Big breeders have for years been getting top dollar (sometimes more than fair) for their animals. Now because of so many people are breeding a buyer can shop around and get a competitive price for a type of animal that they like. I'm sorry if anyone is losing money on animals they breed and care for but I didnt hear any complaining when you were coming out on the better end!? Looks like the elitist's will have to start mingling with the common folk.

Tom Eason
 
Not just reptiles

Fred, There have been lots of cbb baby retfs dumped on the market for less than it costs to raise them to a safe selling size. These guys now having a little cash in their pocket and realizing that its not profitable will probobly not produce them agian. What a shame. Hank
 
well, my thoughts are that maybe some people overpaid in the first place and now they are finding that the market wont support their overpayment. expectations are a b____ sometimes. basically, when you are working with these animals for money, you have to expect that you're going to lose on occasion and that you are going to win on occasion. myself for example, (not that i'm working with my animals for money) when i've sold something because i wanted to focus in a different direction, i've made a profit off of the original purchase price about half of the time. but when you factor in feeding, housing, electricity, water, etc... i'm far from breaking even. fred, the animals you have been posting for sale (the mad ground boa and the stripe pair come to mind) are beautiful, but maybe you overpaid for them expecting a higher return than what was realistic. i could be wrong, but that seems to be what the market is telling me. personally given the price, i don't see why the mad ground boa hasn't been sold and having seen the price on your stripe pair drop to $1000, i don't see why they haven't sold (except maybe some don't think the stripes are genetic and therefore aren't worth the money). i don't know man, i don't know what to say...
as far as others dumping their prices, that to me is, as you stated already, supply and demand. either supply is too great, or demand is not great enough. either way, the dropping of the price, at times drastically, is just the market evening itself out. i think that with the explosive growth of this hobby, you're going to be seeing it a lot more across all species because not only do you have the "big breeders" breeding in mass quantities, you have importers, hobbyist/breeders, and hobbyists contributing to the total number of animals out there. oversaturation = lower prices.
ok, i'm repeating myself now and getting no further in my explanation. and it's time to eat.
later
 
I do not think it has anything to do with being an elitist vs common folk. I agree with Fred, and have been thinking about making a post like this for awhile. It is about common business sense and care for the animals.
My question to the hobbiest dumping off stock is...why dump stock when you can keep the market ingretity of an animal by just doing some more wholesaling? You dont have to deal with a bunch of buyer inquiries, and you relieve yourself of a large number all at once. Meanwhile, you can keep a few to sell at full retail price.

Most newcomers and hobbiests complain that they do not have the "big name" so they cannot sell for the top dollar. That is true, but they needed to have thought of this before out-of-nowhere breeding so many animals at once and having no way to sell them all. It is called planning. What happens when this newcomer or no-name is in the business for a few years, has developed a name, but has been partially responsible for lowering the value of an animal that they are now trying to make some sort of a living at breeding. That is the path that many take. The bottom line is that it is short term thinking and can wind up hurting them in the future seasons. Not to mention, it is an easy way to alienate yourself from fellow breeders and collegues.
For example, we used to wholesale everything. Each year a little less. This year, even though we have decent publicity, we still wholesale a lot. Just to keep the load light and market integrity up.

Here are some big problems with the low pricing...
The Europeans already criticize the American markets for having such low prices that two things happen:

A. Animals for sale become disposable pets. It is cheaper to buy a new one than care properly for the original one.

B. The breeders/dealers have to cut corners so much to keep the price down that the health of the animals are greatly comprimised. And animals are being sold younger and younger to uninformed buyers (many sent to their death).

These things lead to a lot of the complaints that groups such as the HSUS has against the reptile market.

Keep prices stable, breeders/dealers can concentrate more and more on health and well being. Quality stays high. In this case price often has a direct correlation to quality. As prices get lower and lower, breeders are not even able to cover feeding costs beyond the first couple weeks after hatching!

I've also noticed that most of the people that want to buy for cheap, have plans to breed in the future. Try calculating breeding costs before complaining about price.... And then figure out what you will want for your offspring.

Just my thoughts.
Dana
 
bottom line, breeding animals for a living = taking a chance. sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.
oh, and from what i've heard, one should not breed leopard gecko morphs or colubrids with the hopes of retiring on the income. i know that and i don't even have any interest in those animals, so why don't breeders understand that? quit complaining that the market didn't hold up to your expectations.

however, i do agree that it is indeed sad that people look at their pets as disposable because they are so cheap. however, given the attitudes of americans, breeders should have expected that and the people to blame are the breeders, not the market. they should take into consideration the effects of their decisions to breed certain animals with certain market values before breeding them. or, be more selective about who you sell to. basically, if you're concerned about the animals you sell and don't want them to end up dying in the (lack of) care provided by some random person, then don't wholesale them because you never know where they are going after you sell them to a wholesaler. not that you have much insight as to where they go after you sell them to a hobbyist, but at least it's less likely to end up in the hands of someone who can't or wont care for it. why? because you sold it and you should have gotten a good feel for the person you sold it to.

i'm not saying anyone involved in this thread is guilty of anything, just a general observation and rant.
jb
 
Fred.
Heck man look at what you can buy leopard geckos for
Look at what you can buy corn lots for
look at what you can buy some spiders for
It is no longer a sellers market , its a buyers market[ woe be to the poor animals that eventually get disgarded] and while that may be good for Joe consumer its bad for Joe reptile
If you have the only one or one of a few you might get ahead for a bit and then Joe consumer eventually takes over
You will find some stores that thrive and some people that get by on the good name they have , these are the ones to buy from
My prices are fair to high and there they will remain 'oh well' , what did people used to say and believe
'its all about quality not quantity' ;)
 
perfect illustration of what i'm talking about.
click here
see, even here, market prices have dropped "to about half" of what they used to be because of quantity. it's just a fact of life.

and i agree with john, it should be about quality, not quantity. that's why in the boa world, guys like futo, tudehope, etc.. fetch higher prices than the others. quality. their names are synonymous with it. so, they do get more for their animals.
anyway, think i made my point a long time ago. i'm done.
jb
 
John.... that's all well and good, but, if you truly thought like that, you'd still be asking $500 for an Albino Tremper Leo?? Then, where would you be?
You've got to know how to change with the times.... in ANY market, the CONSUMER rules! Because Leos, Corns, Balls, and Colubrids are SO EASY to breed.... and so CHEAP to get into.... everybody and their grandmother is breeding them.... the market is FLOODED.... if you aren't able (or are unwilling) to "bend" with the times.... you'll fall flat on your face.... remember, also, that when the retail price goes down, the wholesale market always follows suit.... eventually!

....Neil
 
Neil
You sound like a used car salesman whose only motto is quantity not quality
I have got to learn to change with the times!?!?
While I may not have your wisdom or knowledge, I have been at this sort of thing for pretty much close to my almost[not allmost] 40 years, raising my kids paying for a house and while doing this my animals have evened out moneywise
I had a good assortment of what used to be costly stuff but have moved on to other things
change is good but the animals health should be first[not 1st]
you know the quality thing???

'if you aren't able (or are unwilling) to "bend" with the times.... you'll fall flat on your face....'
cmon man
I have fallen many times the trick is to get back up and move on
Life is an up and down struggle, its the same for the animals we breed , or does your short term remember that??????
 
Problem is:
Buyers want quality... with prices too low breeders cannot afford to raise quality, dealers cannot make a profit. We are all in it together.
So, is it really a buyer's market?

As for animals going to the wrong people, all you can do is educate. With wholesaling, know and trust your wholesalers.

As for the poor leos, who will breed them now? Or will they be farmed in Central America? You can only get 1/4 of what adequate care costs. It's a shame.

The market will ebb and flow, but we all have a part in it. And trends are just that, trends.

The idea is to love what we do and try to keep a balance. I vote for keeping up quality. If we dont, we all lose. And every animal rights group will be breathing harder.

Dana
 
John.... I wasn't talking ABOUT you.... I was just answering your question?? Obviously, you're doing the right thing, when you switch directions every once in a while to conform with what the public wants.... that's the whole point???
It's the folks out there who breed ONE type of animal.... they are going to find a very tough road ahead when all the babies they have sold, start producing hundreds of babies on their own?? The market will get flooded, and then what??? It's already happening with the Corns, Leos, Beardies and Balls.... It's pretty scary, if you think about it....

....Neil
 
Yeah Neil
maybe I misunderstood your post, I am a fighter who loves to fight face to face or pad to pad
I am also very passionate on my beliefs and the animals we all know and love
so... I'll say my apologies for my chest thumping

As far as the folks here who breed one thing, how many color morphs can come from one animal species[just ask RZ] selective breeding should help all of us small timers

Its still quality not quantity
 
I think it has been alot worse lately but I think its got alot more to do with the economy then anything. people are lossing jobs everyone is hurting right now so people are desperate and dumping stuff. Theres been alot more of it lately then I have ever seen. Alot more people wanting to trade stuff and do anything they can to keep money in there pockets. Once the economy turns around I think this will to. When people are hurting for money these are the first things they let go of, all this extra not needed things.
 
John.... I wish they thought of selective breeding for some of the PEOPLE that visit this site!.... lmao

Now, at least, you're starting to understand why I don't breed anything.... this way, I'm very flexible in the things that I buy for resale.... I have the opportunity to just buy the VERY BEST I can find, from ANYBODY! Breeders, wholesalers, importers, weekend warriors, petshop owners, people off the street, anybody! If they have what I'm looking for.... we'll talk.... Knowing there will ALWAYS be a "market" for THE BEST! The fun for me is looking for them, finding them, negotiating for them, purchasing them, marketing them, selling them, and finally, hearing all the happy smiles through email.... and that's just the internet! The store is even more of a blast! Needless to say.... I have a very good time in the store!....It's the BEST! I wouldn't want to do anything else, no matter what the market does.... I'm very maliable....

....Neil
 
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