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The Disturbing Trend of Price Slashing in the reptile hobby/industry

I forgot.... and also CARING for them, while they're in my control.... I've always said.... if it weren't for FOOD and TAXES.... I'd actually make MONEY in that place!.... lmao

....Neil
 
Your selling the wrong thing.

Someone is selling based completely on price and you want to compete directly with him on that one point where he doesn't care if he loses (or doesn't know he is losing).

John(just using you as an example),

You state that you have 40 years experience working with your animals. You pride yourself on the care and love that goes into your animals. The hard work and attention, I am sure, pays off in the health and quality of the animals. This is the point you need to sell.

If your ads read as "Snake with trait A and het for Trait B for $X" and your competitors ad reads "Snake with trait A and het for Trait B for $X-$10" then your competitor will win every time. So you need to explain to your potential customer why yours is more expensive. We're in a luxury item industry (you don't need a lizard or snake to live) so these "features" become more desirable and people are willing to pay money for them.

Leverage your experience, name, time to get the higher price and let the low baller run himself out of business.

While a dealer/broker can ride the wave of fad by caring the animals which are hot for the moment (nothing wrong with this as a business plan, as it works). A breeder needs to be able to fight in different arena's since he has so much invested (time, money, energy). If your competitor is selling on price, you sell experience. If your competitor is selling on experience, you sell on one-on-one customer service. Etc, Etc.
 
Man, this is a tough one. So many conflicting thoughts about the state of our industry that I don't know where to begin.

At one of the recent shows I attended, I walked around and saw a plethora of animals that were pure junk. Animals that were dead but they didn't know it yet. Baby albino corn snakes with mid-body bloating and mouths gaping open. Backbones razor sharp on other stuff. I actually heard about a guy nearby me at one of the shows telling customers that leopard geckos with big fat tails were unhealthy, and his with the skinny tails were the better ones to buy. I kid you not.

But the sellers knew that if they put a low enough price tag on it, someone will buy it. Unfortunately there are enough uninformed buyers out there that to them PRICE is the only thing that matters. Many of them are still wet behind the ears with this stuff, and not only don't know healthy animals when they see them, they also don't have a clue about whom has a good reputation or not. In such situations, having the best reputation in the world isn't going to help you one bit.

Quality and reputation are far too intangible for many people to bank on when competing against $$. It requires that the buyer be knowledgeable about too many things. Certainly they are out there, but not in the numbers that the other end of the spectrum abounds. While you are telling the potential customer the truth about your animals, pointing out the best points of them, the next row over the guy is lying is butt off trying to grab the kid's money. So the potential customer is hearing the same thing from everyone. And what does he do? Right, he goes for the cheapest price. After all, he's being told the same thing from everyone about the animals on the tables.

I am amazed at the number of phone calls I get from people saying they are getting ready to do a show and need to buy some animals to take there. They want the animals to show up as close to the show as possible. I've actually had people request that I bring animals with me to deliver at a show so they could put MY animals out on their table at the same show!

Now this blows my mind. These people know NOTHING at all about the animals they are taking to the show to sell. So when the potential customer asks about an animal (you know, is it feeding, when did it hatch, etc.), do you think they say "Heck, I don't know. I just got it in yesterday." No, I don't think so. I think they just make up something to try to reel in that fish in front of the table.

Heck, some importers probably make much of their living by shipping out animals to dealers to sell at shows the next weekend. In many instances, the boxes are opened up for the first time right there at the show.

At some of the shows, a sure sign that the blood-letting is about to commence is when over the loud speaker system you start hearing things like "All animals at RoadKilled Reptiles are now half off!" I have determined that at the first broadcast of this type at any show I attend, I will immediately start packing up my stuff to leave.

And the internet is not much better. Anyone can make their site look professional with not too much time, money, or effort. When someone goes to KINGSNAKE.COM, for instance, looking for a particular type of animal, they merely need to click on each link on the breeder/dealer list and then compare prices. Obviously the one with the cheapest price will get called first. What about reputation? "Heck the site sure looked professional and he was real nice to talk to on the phone." That will work more often than not to catch a first time buyer.

I dread the day that something like PRICE.COM, or SHOPPER.COM hits our industry. If you haven't seen those sites, take a look and imagine seeing all of us listed there based on selling price alone.

So where will this all lead? Something will have to give, certainly. Since it is doubtful that the people selling at rock bottom prices will make any effort at capturing repeat business by increasing the quality of their merchandise, and bringing prices up to reflect this change, the people offering top drawer quality will either have to lower their prices (and likely their standards), go under, or both.

Unfortunately, in this type of environment, one of the two most likely categories of businesses to go under will be the starting breeders that have really nice stuff, but don't have anything like a reputation or a following to sustain them through the rough times. Fortunately, on the other hand, it will also be the used car salesmen types that finally figure out that there is much more money in doing other things with their time, that bite the dust as well.

Did anyone notice the latest issue of Reptiles Magazine, specifically the back section with the classified ads? Where did they all go? Not long ago there may have been 6 to 8 pages of ads there. This month, there was just barely over one page. Have that many people folded up their tents, or did that many people figure it's no sense paying for the advertising there?

Oh yeah, while I'm on this topic. I heard recently that there are three major breeders of leopard geckos whom produced something like 30,000 to 50,000 babies EACH this past year. There may be more of this size, plus many more producing a couple thousand or so, each. Do you think there is any relationship to the leopard gecko market being in the toilet now? Nah. Must just be a coincidence, I guess.

And what about the number of ball pythons imported? I think you could pave the world with their carcasses. Certainly with as many being imported each year, only a miniscule fraction of them must survive otherwise we would be hip deep in them right now.

OK, it's late and I'm just rambling now.
 
Rich Zuchowski said:
Oh yeah, while I'm on this topic. I heard recently that there are three major breeders of leopard geckos whom produced something like 30,000 to 50,000 babies EACH this past year. There may be more of this size, plus many more producing a couple thousand or so, each. Do you think there is any relationship to the leopard gecko market being in the toilet now? Nah. Must just be a coincidence, I guess.
Click to expand...

That's a tough call.

You have the Bells, who are largely responsible for Blizzards and the newest strain of Albino.

You have Tremper who is responsible for the bulk of Albinos as well as Jungle patterns.

You have Gourmet Rodent who is one of the first to mass produce Tangerines.


They each produce the numbers you quoted, but they mostly sell them direct to petstores.

Do you feel that petstore prices influence private prices? It doesn't seem that way.

With that in mind, the big breeders have not destroyed the market themselves. They are responsible for having created and renewed the market.

I think its actually the abundance of small to mid-sized breeders who have taken each niche and inbred beyond hope.
 
Quality and reputation are far too intangible for many people to bank on when competing against $$.
Click to expand...

To a certain degree this is correct. I've seen many businesses go under based on the owner having the thought in his head "It's a great product people will buy it, I don't need to do any more". On the other hand everyone here can see if you don't charge enough then there is no reason to do what you do. Your only alternative is come up with a way to compete against the low ballers with your quality. I agree 100% with Dana that education is the way to make this happen, but it is a long term plan.

I am amazed at the number of phone calls I get from people saying they are getting ready to do a show and need to buy some animals to take there. They want the animals to show up as close to the show as possible. I've actually had people request that I bring animals with me to deliver at a show so they could put MY animals out on their table at the same show!
Click to expand...

And how many breeders cut their own throat by making that exact sale to make a quick buck. Personally from what I've seen in this industry you need to make a decision on what your target market is going to be. If your going to target retail customers then don't sell to brokers/dealers who are going to sit across the aisle from you and compete directly.

And the internet is not much better.
Click to expand...

I'm going to disagree here. I see more and more people doing research online about their pets. I get emails on a daily basis of people asking about husbandry, cross referencing other sources, and comparing prices. While it is time consuming to answer these emails they are the perfect opportunity to show your customers why it is better to buy from you than the other guy.

With tools such as the BOI it is easier to check out places you are buying from.

In line with the thread about proper communication skills being a basis for dealing with someone, looking and acting professional is a definite sign about the care and quality you will get from a company. While you can "fake" this with a professional looking site and shiny brochures it is a definite criteria upon which your company will be judged.

Marketing and sales will get you the first purchase. The profit margins on this first purchase will not be large if existant at all since you spent a large amount of time and energy to get it. Customer service and quality products/animals will get you the continued purchases which is where the money is at. ;)
 
Well I though I gave a pretty well thought out anser, and I would swore it was posted here yesterday after I clicked on the submit reply button. So I am guessing it was deleted. Any reason in particular why it was deleted?


Glenn - well I certainly didn't delete it! Are you sure you posted it correctly? Some people have been known to preview their messages and then forget to press the SUBMIT button, thinking it was posted.

WebSlave.
 
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I think its actually the abundance of small to mid-sized breeders who have taken each niche and inbred beyond hope. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ah, yes, another by-product of low balling and general short term thinking and greed (that often doesnt bank out). Inbreeding is certainly one of the "short cuts" that many breeders/hobbiests take to cut costs, bank on trends, and overproduce morphs that lose value fast if they do not have outlets. How long can people get away with it before serious health issues start to rise. Someone called many of the popular morphs out there "expert only" animals due to all of the "issues" that they have from multi-generational inbreeding. LOL! Not too funny though.

I like Dan's philosophy, and it is what I rely on and try to push. But on the other hand, I see so much of the lying that Rich refers to. And then just general stupidity.

At least the people that dont lie can usually count on repeat customers.

Dana
 
I think quality sets a reputation that can compete with all these low ballers, think about it . they buy a cheaper animal... animal dies ...they go to you and pay the price for quality and a good guarantee. {though this step may take some time}
Be it as it may , eventually the consumer will come to you and your good reputation
 
John - perhaps that is so, but how many first time buyers got burned so badly that they just completely lost interest and never came back looking for someone with a good reputation?

I once talked to someone at a show whom was looking at my baby corns and he mentioned that he bought some a few years ago, but they all die and he really doesn't want to get any more of them. We talked about this for a while, and come to find out that the seller told him that all he needs to do is to feed them one pinky mouse every 12 days. Well of course they all died! And this guy stayed away from them for years afterwards because of this bad advice.

So if you have some kid buying his very first snake, with the doting parents standing behind him, and they all hear the dealer lying through his teeth about how hardy, healthy, and easy to care for their new pet is going to be for them, and then it DIES a week later, how do you think they are going to feel about making another purchase? They are probably going to feel that they did something wrong, or perhaps they just are not qualified enough to keep a snake alive, then go get a puppy or a kitten instead. "No Junior, you can't have a snake because your first one died. Remember?"

And who could blame them?
 
Rich.... you're kidding, right?? This statement you made....

...They are probably going to feel that they did something wrong, or perhaps they just are not qualified enough to keep a snake alive, then go get a puppy or a kitten instead. "No Junior, you can't have a snake because your first one died. Remember?"...

.... I don't think you realized what you said.... any novice that buys an animal, and is given wrong advice, or even correct advice, and the animal dies.... the buyer will blame the seller! No question! There is no way that he will blame himself.... your snake was either sick when he bought it, or it had some sort f abnormality that should have been seen by the seller BEFORE it was sold, yadda, yadda, yadda.... That is why it's critical for breeders NOT to sell the "non-perfect", too young, or more care than a twelve year old can give.... until the animals are healthy enough, or old enough to handle a new environment.... because you KNOW they won't get the same care as they're used to??
If too many "weekend warriors" are out there just to make a quick buck, never to be heard from again until NEXT YEAR.... it's going to make it very tough for the PROFESSIONALS to compete....

....Neil
 
Neil I dont know how many shows you do but I gotta agree with Rich about people blaiming themselves, from what I gather you deal more in the pet shop arena then the shows. Everyone who doesnt know better blaims the pet shops, because of chains stores like petco and others that are notorious for neglecting and selling poor animals. At the shows people have a trust about them you dont see in pet stores. People who dont know any better often think these huge wholesalers are breeding all the stuf they have. Someone like you or I can walk in a show and tell the wholesale dealers from the breeders just by looking at whats on their table. But people who dont know any better cant. Same as in the pet stores, you and I can tell a good pet store from a bad one, they cant. Thats were the education and experiance come in. Ive seen it alot even with people I know, that I would think should know better. They buy someones junk at a show and when it dies they think its their fault because they bought it "direct from the breeder". So as far as the shows I gotta agree with Rich on this one.
 
Jason.... I gotta give you that one.... I guess I am biased to the store itself, because I don't do shows.... too cutthroat! I am, however, shocked to hear you say that the folks at shows, blame themselves for the deaths of their animals??? I can't tell you how many people come into the store, a couple of weeks after every Tampa show, saying they bought an animal at the show and it died! Believe me.... they DON'T blame themselves.... that's why they buy another one from me, because, even though they are more expensive than at the show, they "look" healthier! It has happened on numerous occasions.... maybe they just tell YOU that, while they're right in front of your face, so they don't cause a riot?? Just a thought....

....Neil
 
Rich,

Your right in that buying your first reptile from a bad seller can sour the whole experience and kill a customer's desire for the hobby. Problem is that there isn't much we can do as sellers except provide information and high quality animals to combat the bad sellers. The other thing is to be particular about who you wholesale to.
 
Neil, no I meant what I said. The problem is that neither you nor I will hear from most of those people whom just never come back to try again. Especially from those kids whom have parents that were just looking for an excuse NOT to have a snake in the house in the first place.
 
Rich.... EXACTLY! And the reason you never see them again is NOT because they blame themselves?? The HONEST one's that DO blame themselves, are the one's you DO see because they have enough wisdom to know that they MIGHT NOT know everything??? I still say there are far less of those type, than there are those that blame us....

....Neil
 
Ok, so how realistic is this...

IF I ever get to the point that it's a good idea for me to get a table at an expo, should I print up care sheets for each and every animal I offer along with specialized info about the specific animal being purchased and give it to the customer? I'm thinking that general feeding, housing, and growth/appearance guidelines along with sex, birthdate, scientific name/common name, feeding chart, and my contact info/website could all fit onto one piece of paper. This will also help to serve the purpose of showing the customer the value added portion of my price because they can't get this information from the guy with the table next to mine and it shows that I care enough to take the time to do this.

Yes? No?

Thanks!
 
Jonathan.... ANYTHING you do for your customer that DOESN'T COST ANYTHING.... is ALWAYS remembered! Especially, good information and caresheets.... it is OBVIOUS to the buyer that you are NOT run-of-the-mill, and who do you think they will remember when they are looking to purchase their next animal?? It NEVER hurts to give the customer as much "informative" information as you have.... it will come back to you ten-fold!

....Neil
 
Neil, I guess your experience with this is just different from mine. I know I have gotten enough phone calls, email messages, and face to faces at shows from people about this to feel the way I do about situation.

Heck, my first and ONLY experiment trying to ship via Airborne's second day service (what a catastrophe that was), I had a girl crying on the phone because she thought she had done something incorrectly and killed the snakes inside.

Man, for that matter, check the message boards on KINGSNAKE.COM. Check out how many times you may see someone new at this posting a message like "HELP! My snake is sick and dying! What did I do wrong?"
 
Rich.... I know exactly what you're getting at.... but, I know people! I'm sure there are a few phychologists on this site who MIGHT be able to back me up.... but, most people, given the choice, will blame anybody else but themselves, until they are shown where they went wrong.... and even then, it's iffy....

As I said.... only the honest one's will have the guts to talk to you in person, or call you, telling you of their dilemma.... but, I still think a LOT more people will just blame you, and never contact you again....

....Neil
 
Agreeable on all points
but I still think a quality sale brings about more quality customers
Not everybody goes into this blind there are those that will do some simple husbandry research, it is up to us to help out each new customer so they have a pleasant experience, yes I know there are those that you can never please. From what I have seen in this hobby honesty pays off and word of mouth or keyboard get around, so do the lowballers but whose rep will last ours or theirs
 
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