The Fauna Draft

[SoulSmilen]

Actually with regard to accepting money, I have a different view on that. When I give money to this site I look at it as a donation, I donate to all sorts of things and people, it is my way of saying I believe in whatever it is I donate to.
Now when I buy, say, corns from Rich I would then be the customer looking for my product to come to me in the best possibe shape and with the best service one can give.

Were it a donation program, your rendition would be on the money. When it went from donation to membership level with different benefits and a yearly renewal fee, it is no longer donation; it is a product and/or service.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Because your derogatory and belittling comments were uncalled for and designed to personally attack me. Quite frankly, I am not putting up with that here. From anyone. I give everyone quite a bit of freedom here to pretty much do what they please within VERY reasonable restraints. But quite frankly, I am not going to allow anyone this medium to belittle me and my efforts or in any way bash me on this site nor any others that I run. If someone thinks this is unfair of me, well that's just tough, but the way it is.

So yeah, if I choose to use the karma system to flag a post you made that I feel is especially derogatory towards me, then yes, it is a big hit against you. Actually I am astonished that you think such talk comes without any repercussions. Take a slap at me, and fully expect to get a slap right back.

I can take the negative comments and feedback with the best of them, but when you start making derogatory slurs then it's time to put the brakes on, HARD. I don't require respect from anyone, but I simply will not put up with public disrespect on this site. Period.

I hope this is crystal clear to everyone.

With all due respect, many of your posts about the members of Fauna are derogatory and belittling, as well, but you're above recourse. You openly laugh and make fun of the member group quite regularly, and did so many times in the WW2 thread; the astonishment goes both ways.

I know my days here are numbered, I am not stupid; shoot, this may be my last post and I fully expect to see the "Banned" label soon. I was genuinely not trying to belittle you, though, and I don't really think I did. There's that perception thing, though, and that's fine; I can accept that.

I genuinely would like to see the site back where it was with a site owner who cares about its success rather than one that makes it crystal clear he doesn't care; that's all. I don't think that's too much to ask as a member, paying or not.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

a huge rant about how Rich is gonna MAKE me mod, or that the entire site will collapse, humanity will go mad, and the cat's fur is gonna fall out.

Back off~ I explained why I thought I was about to become a mod whether I liked it or not and WHY I did not like it. It had no effect on you, and you apparently had read the original thread.......... but I had not.......and it did effect me directly if Rich was planning on sending me the hate mail! So gee~ wonder why you wouldn't see it as a problem but I might?

Besides......
The cat still has all his hair......Both cats do
This week.....
But thanks for the idea~ they do shed a lot.........

Its all said and done. Rich is not planning on torturing me~
I've now read what it is he wants~ and I don't have a problem with what it is he actually wants.......
I just don't want HIS job!

 

[Dragondad]

Denise I would have to agree with Rozann. The customer concept ended when the "Pay to Play" ended. You, with your contribution, have very little more available to you than I do without paying a dime. (you can leave neg Karma and can see who left you Karma, there may be more). The point being you can function totally on Fauna without paying a dime. After High Noon tomorrow you can play totally without paying anymore money. You can choose to not pay a dime when it comes up for renewal, and you probably wont see a difference in that choice. But it is still your choice to pay. Or maybe the logic would be this, the people that gave $250 have no more privilege that you do should they complain about that?

You give a donation to the World Wildlife Fund, they send you a calender, do you complain because the pictures aren't of the animals you like?

So if you have a compaint about what your $25 bought you then complain, but what your complaining about isn't within that scope.

 

[Dragondad]

Denise, you say you want to go back to the full moderated forum. How would what you have said be handled by the "rules with mods" that existed?

And the only one who is going to make you stop being a member of Fauna is you and your own actions and words. No one I see is going to give you points for what you normally say. It what your doing in the past 24hrs that is costing you.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Denise I would have to agree with Rozann. The customer concept ended when the "Pay to Play" ended. You, with your contribution, have very little more available to you than I do without paying a dime. (you can leave neg Karma and can see who left you Karma, there may be more). The point being you can function totally on Fauna without paying a dime. After High Noon tomorrow you can play totally without paying anymore money. You can choose to not pay a dime when it comes up for renewal, and you probably wont see a difference in that choice. But it is still your choice to pay. Or maybe the logic would be this, the people that gave $250 have no more privilege that you do should they complain about that?

You give a donation to the World Wildlife Fund, they send you a calender, do you complain because the pictures aren't of the animals you like?

So if you have a compaint about what your $25 bought you then complain, but what your complaining about isn't within that scope.

This isn't about what I've paid or not paid, not sure where you see I've implied that. My comments on the paying part were in reply to someone else bringing it up, that's all. You're right, the customer concept ended when "Pay to play" went out the door; that was a big escalation in helping the site go downhill, and that was my only point in replying to the store and customer comments.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Denise, you say you want to go back to the full moderated forum. How would what you have said be handled by the "rules with mods" that existed?

And the only one who is going to make you stop being a member of Fauna is you and your own actions and words. No one I see is going to give you points for what you normally say. It what your doing in the past 24hrs that is costing you.

It was handled; I got my warning points and didn't whine or argue about it, and I said they were just.

What I'm saying in the last 24 hours isn't really costing me anything, and I wouldn't cry victim if I'm banned; if you knew me better, you would know that.

This isn't about points, and I'm not complaining with going back to a more moderated site; I have said time and time again I fully agree with that and am GLAD it is going back that way. Why is that so difficult for people to deduce from my words?

Take my words at face value; nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Lucille]

am GLAD it is going back that way.

Me too Denise. And I just got my first warning point after they were all zeroed out. And it's OK.

This whole Wild West thing is a pretty far out idea, but it could work. I'm missing here a sense of fun and adventure: why the many posts of gloom and doom, why not just give this a try and see how it goes?

What is the VERY worst that can happen? Someone could get dinged pretty good and would have to pay a fine, but you have to really work at that.

What is the VERY best that can happen? The peer review dealie might make all of us more sensitive to each others needs, and make us more courteous and thoughtful. That's a good thing.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Me too Denise. And I just got my first warning point after they were all zeroed out. And it's OK.

This whole Wild West thing is a pretty far out idea, but it could work. I'm missing here a sense of fun and adventure: why the many posts of gloom and doom, why not just give this a try and see how it goes?

What is the VERY worst that can happen? Someone could get dinged pretty good and would have to pay a fine, but you have to really work at that.

What is the VERY best that can happen? The peer review dealie might make all of us more sensitive to each others needs, and make us more courteous and thoughtful. That's a good thing.

That's just it, Lucille. It's not a WWW thing; it was presented that way with much unnecessary drama and in reality is nothing more than letting folks mod if they so choose and are willing to pay for it. It is no more peer based than selecting mods. There's no fun or sense of adventure needed; it's moderation, selected by payment - that's it. No more, no less.

Once again, I am NOT complaining about the new system.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dinging someone with a nuke when only a pee-shooter was needed is a bit over the top. I think this site used to have more goodwill embodied by its members in the past, as evidenced by the Fauna Fund auctions. I don't think they could generate the same response of donations at this time, and I wish those in positions to protect and restore the goodwill would not be so hasty to create ill-will.

Otherwise, I think that so long as this warning system is administered where necessary with consistency, it will work. In fact, I think that all the focus generated by members in quantity in the two WWW threads, and a few others, has already caused the usual suspects to pull their punches quite a bit more. I think that there was a collective ganging up by members on some antagonistic posts in the last couple of months, and that bringing back an enforcement system has focused much attention, amongst the regulars anyway, to the idea of improved civility here. We will see

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Geeze, Rich. 1,000 points??? That seems pretty harsh. Looks like Denise needs some 'good' karma points... too bad I can't give her any more.

According to the 'new' warning point system, "Antagonism Towards Moderators" only deserves a 3 point hit. Perhaps you need to add another 1,000 point category for "Pissing off the WebSlave"???

 

[Wolfy-hound]

My apoligies. I meant to post my comments at the in general attitude that everyone seems to be freaking out over this rule change idea.
I was not referring to someone who already stated that they didn't read the first thread. I was paraphraseing the general unease, not trying ot quote you out of this thread.
I still say there was no real reason to start a thread stating that Rich was going to force people to be mods. Drafting people without recourse to be a mod. Despite the quote.
I can't get over the fact that SO many people have posted various things about "how dare Rich do this" "This will totally ruin the board" or "Everyone will be kicked off and not pay to come back" ideas. (Those are not quotes)
So to sum up:
Cheryl- I wasn't referring to your post.
Apoligies to anyoen who thinks I said they were screaming when they were having a calm collected whine instead. Whining about change is something I'm familar with. I just don't happen to think that much will actually change here. And again... if it's SO repugnant to some people, why don't they just leave, rather than freak out? How many threads are there on the subject so far?
Shrugs. Do what ye will. After all, it's only the internet... lol....
Naked Cats.... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Wolfy

 

[varnyard]

That's just it, Lucille. It's not a WWW thing; it was presented that way with much unnecessary drama and in reality is nothing more than letting folks mod if they so choose and are willing to pay for it. It is no more peer based than selecting mods. There's no fun or sense of adventure needed; it's moderation, selected by payment - that's it. No more, no less.

Once again, I am NOT complaining about the new system.

Not complaining?

SoulSmilen: Sure you did, that's what the money was for!!!!

Doesn't matter, because he doesn't care! I forgot to quote that part...

Aren't you just sooooooooo proud to be a contributing member of such a great site?

For only $100.00 YOU TOO can be forced to bear the work that others are willing to take on but can't because they didn't pay enough or any money. Funny how all the site owners have been running sites wrong for so many years; I wonder how long it will take them to say, "Wow, I coulda had a V-8!" ?

This site would have been much better off being sold for the 1000.00 to someone who might actually care and make it what it once was. The end goal is clear, though.. it's like a psychotic person killing their ex because they don't want anyone else to 'have' him/her.

Not only do we have that, but we have the preliminary seed planted so when the drafted mods don't participate, there will be room to say, "I implemented the peer warning system for the site and it didn't get used; I'm always doing something for you, the members, and you are ungrateful and don't appreciate any of it!" or "Won't be the first time I've added something to the site that didn't get used."

Bravo, bravo!

Well, what exactly would you call this then?

IMO, there is no other explanation for it but complaining.

Webster’s says:

1 : to express grief, pain, or discontent <complaining about the weather>
2 : to make a formal accusation or charge

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Not complaining?



Well, what exactly would you call this then?

IMO, there is no other explanation for it but complaining.

Webster’s says:


Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Bobby, not that it matters at this point, since it seems only a few can comprehend simple words, but read my comments over and really think about where they stem from. They weren't directed at the end result or the warning system itself - it was how it all came about, the needless drama resulting from it, and the crassness and cavalier attitude evident when it was being laughed up. It was about the "I don't care" attitude and the antagonism toward the members who were discussing it, and about the comments regarding assigning and drafting those two groups and subjecting them to the "Report a post" button notices, but claiming they had a choice.

Is it really so hard to comprehend the difference in bringing these things to light and complaining about the warning system itself?

 

[DaveyFig]

Denise, I think that the nuke attack has a lot less to do with personal feelings than it has to do with stress.
I can't even imagine the pressure and stress that Rich has had to deal with in the past, all for what? He has made as many changes to the site as he can think of, and there is always someone poking at him.
I don't think your poke had any more impact than others, and can tell you I have read a lot of stuff directed at Rich that was more deserving of the Z-Bomb.
I just think Rich has had enough.
I see it like this, and may be way off.
You can poke someone with a stick. The person next to you can poke them harder. Their mother can poke them, Wes can poke the, I can poke them, everyone gets a turn at the piñata. It is shrugged off for years, with little impact. With all of the poking, the poke-ee is going to go ape doo at some point, and someone is going to get laid the F out. You got smacked. I for one will chose my words more wisely in the future having seen what was done to you. Perhaps others will too.
You said yourself that you weren't saying anything that others weren't. So why say it?
If it made no difference when they said it, and you think Rich has it out for you, why would you open yourself up to that? Was it a martyr move, to look back and say "Look what Rich did, and why? I didn't do anything more than Joe Shmoe"
If enough people pull on somethinngs tail, sooner or later, someone is gonna be pooed on.
Now wipe yourself off and get back in there. You are a great addition to the site, and I personally enjoy reading your posts. It won't be long before you are back in the green. Just forget about this incident(maybe not forget, but get over it), and move on. You are bigger than this, and will overcome it. You have some great ideas, just go with that.

 

[SoulSmilen]

Thanks Dave. I didn't open myself up to anything or say anything knowing or thinking Rich had it out for me. I didn't think he did and still don't think he does for me, as Denise; he could care less who I am. Like you said, I was just the last straw, I suppose.

 

[Wilomn]

Thanks Dave. I didn't open myself up to anything or say anything knowing or thinking Rich had it out for me. I didn't think he did and still don't think he does for me, as Denise; he could care less who I am. Like you said, I was just the last straw, I suppose.

I warned you about standing behind me.

Better listen next time.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Looking at the accumulating red dots and high negative karma values that it reflects, its a shame to see one more system of peer recognition here be devalued so quickly. Its not a step forward for the site IMMHO.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

The 1000 point karma hits are excessive, and unfair.

 

[Mike Greathouse]

Here's the really sad part.
Tomorrow morning, this list of people who undoubtedly earned their negative karma (as given to them by the membership) will be overshadowed by those who received theirs from a one shot deal.

1 - csreptiles (-322)
2 - devenomized (-236)
3 - BocaReptiles (-232)
4 - snakebstr (-218)
5 - ScottsSerpents (-206)
6 - BILLY WILLIAMS (-202)
7 - BoidBuilder (-184)
8 - mastarofsnakezz (-180)
9 - RyanT (-176)
10 - Mercedez (-172)