The Formation of Exclusive Cliques...

[Glenn Bartley]

on herp web site, wherein the people post pretty much only in the specific forum in which they have an interest regardless that the content they post in a thread would be much more appropriate in another forum. For instance a question about gut loading feeder insects would be best in the feeders forum not in a forum about a certain type of herp. By such threads being repeatedly placed in a species specific forum, it is as if the posters are snubbing their noses at the remainder of the site's membership as if they are only taking the bother to write threads or posts for others who have their own interest - even when the thread is of a more general interest. Sure we can go to that species specific forum to look for questions about feeders, or for questions about caging, or questions about BOI type inquiries, or questions about the gossip or the web wars on other sites, or for what food t feed meal worms, or for info about car crashes, and on and on, but there are already forums in place on this site in which all of those types of threads would be better addressed. Then when I want to get info on how to gut load feeder insects (for example) I'd go to the forum about feeders not to a forum about lizards.

I am not talking about the occasional misplaced thread either, but about repeated cut and dry cases of inappropriate threads being placed into a species specific forum. It just seems pretty darned exclusive to me.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[Pug]

That's a gripe of mine, when no one posts a topic in the place where it seemingly belongs. I had a little trouble finding the spot for my Nigerian Email Scam thread aboove, but I settled on this because it's not 100% serious like the BOI, yet some one will surely find it.

I post on a lot of technical and computer forums, and one of the biggest pet peeves I have is (besides the ur, 1's, and other ways to over-shorten words) is when a person asks a specific question, and others respond with something completely different than what was asked. For example: A guy would like to inquire about a certain motherboard to see if the features it has built in will suffice for the educational games his two children love to play. This particular board has build in video, audio, ethernet and, everything their computer will need. The video is sufficient for the sort of games they will be playing. So instead of looking at the specs of the board and saying that it will be perfect, the response reads something like "that board is bad, you can't overclock it and it's got build in video, built in video is bad." Didn't they read the question?!? That happens all too much. Without meaning to rant, people often make multiple threads to ask the same question, over and over. There's already one thread on the subject at least, so why not add a post to that one and ressurect it for a little while, you don't need another brand new thread asking the same answered questions!

 

[Seamus Haley]

I know what you mean Glenn, it's been bothering me for awhile now, specifically with the leopard gecko forums on this site.

I know that there are a number of people who are getting pretty comfortable with other leopard gecko posters, but when fully a quarter of the threads in the leopard gecko discussion forum start with the title "Off Topic" it's just wrong. ESPECIALLY when there are appropriate forums in place for the post... Like "Off Topic, Here's my GTP" or whathave you- it's just irritating.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I've reccently realized that this may be more than a simple annoyance, I believe that perhaps more serious consequences need to face those who deliberately create off topic threads (threads which meander into alternative subjects aren't as bad, I'm taking deliberate inappropriately posted subjects where the forum topic is ignored completely).

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46229

Is a link to a poll I have posted and a more complete explaination of my thoughts.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I think you two need to sit down and think about this. ANYONE is more then welcome to join any of the discussions on the leo forums. The only reason why this is happening in the leopard gecko forum is because we decided as a community (the leo community) that we should take advantage of Rich's site and help develope the leoaprd gecko forum on fauna. The leo forum is enjoying its self, as you should be, perhaps you need to join in on the fun and stop complaining so much from time to time, might be good for you.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Maybe the people like you in the Leo forum should realize that this site has appropriate forums for all topics, and is not isolationist by its very nature (as opposed to those in the Leo forums who post everything in the Leo forums for leo forum user eyes only). Sure anyone can join those conversations, but inappropriately placed threads are just that and placing them in an inappropriate forum is obviously cliquish and is rude toward the rest of the membership of fc. It also defeats the purpose of all the other forums on this site, that were created by the webslave after careful consideration of how this site should work. Yes I agree you are TAKING ADVANTAGE of Rich's site and unfair advantage as I see it.

To imply that because you are some sort of close knit group and because of that you have special privilages to post whatever you want in an inapropriate forum for the thread content is disrespectful to the rest of the faunaclassifieds community.

I by the way, enjoy myself immensely here at faunaclassifieds. maybe you should stick to the topic rather than trying to blow smoke by telling others how to enjoy themselves, thereby trying to change the topic of this discussion. If you really want to develop the LEOPARD GECKO FORUM then why not folow the rules and post topics that are relevant to that forum, and place other topics in ther appropriate forums. This way you would develop the Leopard Gecko forum and at the same time also develop other forums on this site, thereby also developing the overall site of faunaclassifieds. This would be instead of excluding the rest of the fc forums as many of you are now doing. Try to remember this site is not the leopardgeckoforum.com site, it is the faunaclassifieds.com site and it offers lots more than a Leopard Gecko forum. This site has been, after a lot of thought and effort, made to be quite diverse in content. Why not keep it that way! Why not open yourselves up to the rest of this wonderful web site, and enjoy all it has to offer. No I am not blowing smoke like you, I am sticking with my original idea of trying to eliminate the cliques that have formed by getting you to enjoy the whole site as it was meant to be used.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[Xelda]

Hmm.. what actually bugs me more isn't the off topic posts but the posts that begin on topic and then end up on a completely different tangent. The only reason why this bugs me is because when I'm searching old posts for information, I have to sift through so much irrelevant conversation to find what I'm looking for. If I see a thread that's 6 pages long, I think, "Perfect! 6 pages of discussion on this topic I want to know more about." But then it just turns out to be a lot of one-on-one conversing that should really be taking place through PMing, if I'm not mistaken, but I still read through it all in order to catch any posts that might actually pertain to what I was looking for.

 

[jenn_jeffery]

ANYONE is more then welcome to join any of the discussions on the leo forums.

Yes, anyone CAN join the discussions, however when you have you (Justyn), Robin, Kelli H, Overton, Cody, and a few more, then people like me, who have a hard time 'joining in' tend to avoid such conversations.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you all are friends, but the trading of inside jokes, calling each others leos by name, makes other people feel like they're intruding on your little world. Put the random conversations in the General BS forum or take it to emails or even to chat, leave it out of the leo forum.

These specific forums (boa, python, kingsnake, leo, bearded dragon, uro) are setup for learning and discussion on these specific animals, it's very distracting for newcomers to wade through Robin gluing her fingers together, and someone else producing a striped boa. Yeah, Robin's story was funny (Sorry Robin, it's the first one that popped into my mind) and the snake was neat, but I would have read them in other forums anyway, by clicking the 'view new posts' link.

 

[KelliH]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you all are friends, but the trading of inside jokes, calling each others leos by name, makes other people feel like they're intruding on your little world.

So let me see if I have this right. Referring to a another forum poster's gecko by name (if it has a name) is not acceptable. Joking around with friend on the Leo Forum is not acceptable. Basicaly having a good time on the Leo Forum is not acceptable.

Myself and Justyn and a few others have made a concerted effort to bring people to the Leo Forum on Fauna. Why? Because we wanted a place to post about leopard geckos and also feel comfortable posting and also have a good time. Yes, sometimes threads will stray off the original subject, that is just human nature, it happens in every forum.

Of course we want everyone to feel welcome but we also want this place to be a community. I believe it has become exactly that, a community, and if I am not mistaken it is the most popular forum on this website, with the exception of the BOI. That's awesome!

I do really like the idea that Rich has talked about, which is putting an "Off Topic" subforum in the Leopard Gecko Forum itself. Maybe that would take care of this "problem", and allow members to post their off topic posts in the forum where they hang out in the most, and where their online buds can read and reply. Just my opinions on the subject.

 

[jenn_jeffery]

So let me see if I have this right. Referring to a another forum poster's gecko by name (if it has a name) is not acceptable. Joking around with friend on the Leo Forum is not acceptable. Basicaly having a good time on the Leo Forum is not acceptable.

I never said it wasn't acceptable, I was trying to say that it makes people feel like they're intruding. For example, you have a gecko named "Bob" and Bob has been sick, you've been on the phone with Robin and Justyn about it, and one of them then posts "Hey Kelli, how's Bob doing?" Well, I personally have no idea who Bob is, he could be your husband, your kid, your dog, a snake, a gecko?? It makes people feel like you have this exculsive littel group, and it's impossible to penetrate and join...esp. if you don't breed geckos.

Of course we want everyone to feel welcome but we also want this place to be a community. I believe it has become exactly that, a community, and if I am not mistaken it is the most popular forum on this website, with the exception of the BOI. That's awesome!

And how many posts are off topic, that would improve the conversation in another forum?

I do really like the idea that Rich has talked about, which is putting an "Off Topic" subforum in the Leopard Gecko Forum itself. Maybe that would take care of this "problem", and allow members to post their off topic posts in the forum where they hang out in the most, and where their online buds can read and reply. Just my opinions on the subject.

And this Off Topic subforum would take away from the rest of the board. Use the 'view new posts' button and you can see all posts that your friends have posted, and it will make the best use of the board, in my opinion.

 

[KelliH]

I never said it wasn't acceptable, I was trying to say that it makes people feel like they're intruding.

Yes but you were inferring that it is unacceptable in your opinion, that you do not agree with that. I can respect that.

Forums are online communities. Just like any other type of community there are new people joining the community all the time. Sorry but I am not going to stop being myself and enjoying the forum out of worry that I am going to make someone feel like they are intruding.

It makes people feel like you have this exculsive littel group, and it's impossible to penetrate and join...esp. if you don't breed geckos.

It's not an exclusive little group. I am not a snob, nor is Justyn, nor is Robin or any of the others that have been named. I do not befriend stuck up egotistical people. This is a group of people that have gotten to know each other over time through various online forums, and other means as well, namely the kingsnake forum. And while on the subject of kingsnake, I used to post on the Leo forum there on a daily basis. I stopped visiting and posting there because I did not like feeling as if I could not be myself. If I posted my true thoughts and feelings I would worry that the thread I posted in would be deleted. That is one of the MANY reasons I love this site, you do not have to worry about that.

And how many posts are off topic, that would improve the conversation in another forum?

I never said that Off Topic posts should not be posted in the appropriate forum. What I said was that referring to a gecko by name (can't believe we are even discussing that LOL) and getting a little bit personal per se with friends in a community is no big deal. Joking around and having fun and being friends and sharing ideas and thoughts is a huge part of what makes or breaks a community. And yes, sharing information and facts is important as well. But if all you have is all facts and no fun it will eventually become a rather boring place to hang out. That's all I am saying!

And this Off Topic subforum would take away from the rest of the board. Use the 'view new posts' button and you can see all posts that your friends have posted, and it will make the best use of the board, in my opinion.

I just don't see how that would take anything away from the rest of the board. The way I understand it it is just a link to another forum but I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[KelliH]

Oops forgot one thing Jenn..

Use the 'view new posts' button and you can see all posts that your friends have posted, and it will make the best use of the board, in my opinion.

Some fauna members may dislike the "View New Posts" button because they are only interested in Leopard Geckos, or only interested in Ball Pythons etc. They may not want to have to weed through all the other threads in sections of the board they are not interested in. They may only want to click on the specific forum link that they want to read posts in. That's another reason why I feel the Off Topic subforum link is a good idea.

Just wanted to add that!

 

[robin d.]

well if it makes anyone feel better any of the off topic area will be directly linked to the general discussion forums..... for the most part i do not like OT posts however if i have something OT i will p[ost it in the correct forum and if i feel filled with the spirit to share it with my leo buds i will (especially reptiles related OT) share it with them as well. .... dont try and be too anal we moved here because we wanted the freedom in which KS does not give you ... the more structure you ask for the more you will get and therefor ending up like what we moved away from. if tyou want more rules and what not go back to KS... i chose not to.
rich here has a fairly simple structure and a very simple set of rules... more rules means more mods which means at one point of another he will have to spend more money and im sure mostly out of his own pocket or start to charge more or for other services... i say sh!t or get off the pot... you got a handful of "whats" in one hand and sh1T in the other which one weighs more?

 

[beakgeek]

you got a handful of "whats" in one hand and sh1T in the other which one weighs more?

This sounds like one of those questions I dreaded in math class. ;-)

I'll add my opinion......

I signed on the Fauna in February 2004 and I have never felt that there is a clique in Leopard Gecko forum. I have participated in conversations in all the forums and have been given the same treatment as anyone else. Any perceived cliques, alienation, ostracizing, etc. I think is off base. Heck, the reason most people know the names of animals is that the poster either mentions them and post images a lot or like in my case I bought some breeders that were named already, and the seller asks about them.

I like that there is a BS, Lonely Hearts, etc. forum and posts should be made in the appropriate forum. A once in a great while OT is to be expected, but when they get out of hand then chnage needs to happen.

Regards,

Terry

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Myself and Justyn and a few others have made a concerted effort to bring people to th

.

Some fauna members may dislike the "View New Posts" button because they are only interested in Leopard Geckos, or only interested in Ball Pythons etc. They may not want to have to weed through all the other threads in sections of the board they are not interested in. They may only want to click on the specific forum link that they want to read posts in

Aah, someone from the Leo forum has finall gotten it albeit likely without actually getting it! You are absolutely correct when you say

They may not want to have to weed through all the other threads in sections of the board they are not interested in.

Just as many people do not ewant to wade through the non leo stuff in the leo forum, nor should they have to, nor was this site set up for them to have to do so. Don't you see this is not the community of Leo lovers! This is the community of faunaclassifieds, and it was set up for all to enjoy, but it does have rules and common courtesy should apply. Yet the Leo People, many of them, ignore all of this. It appears to many as if you are snubbing the rest of us by posting all these other types of threads in the Leo section. Aren't the other forums good enough for you? Isn't the set up of faunaclassifieds good enough for you? My guess would be no, because it seems only the Leo section is good enough for you you by the way being generic to leo forum users who persistently post non-leo threads in the leo forum - not any one person). Why not share Ball Python threads in the BP forum, Show/ Expo threads in its forum, Vet/illness/health threads in its forum, and so forth so people who are interested in these fields will find the info they seek in the appropriate forums. Are tou afraid that others will weasel their way into your close knit group your so caled community. Are you afraid that someone in your so called community will become infected by outside influence. It almost seems that way. You are isolating yourselves to some extent in the Leo forum. By your own admission you brought people to the Leo Forum - not to faunaclassifieds - you make that distinction not me:

Myself and Justyn and a few others have made a concerted effort to bring people to the Leo Forum on Fauna.

Then you say you want people to feel welcome but that is not how it is perceived when you in essence exclude others in the OVERALL fc community by placing any subject you please inappropriately into the Leo forum.

Of course we want everyone to feel welcome but we also want this place to be a community. I believe it has become exactly that, a community, and if I am not mistaken it is the most popular forum on this website, with the exception of the BOI. That's awesome

Just by calling the leo forum a community you are being exclusive. This is not sharing, this is, as I see it, isolationist. I cannot stress the overall community is faunaclassifieds, not the Leo Forum. The leo forum on the other hand is a smaller part or section of theb overall community. You came here, if I understand correctly, to get away from another site that was crappy. One that was cliquish in part. One that was elitist in part. Why spawn those same things here? Sure you can have friends in who exclusively use one forum, that is fine when they stick to the topic. If you only talk about leos, I guess the leo forum is the place to do it. However it is, in my opinion, not fine, but is rude, and rather snobby, when people in your so called community repeatedly stray from the subject. It sends the message that people who frequent other forums are not good enough to see these posts unless they come to the so called community of the Leopard Gecko forum. That is, as I see it, not right. By the way, no it is not just like a 'sometinmes thing' as it happens quite frequently as can be seen in my earlier posts - 17 posts, in 4 pages of posts, better fitted elsewhere but yet appearing in the leo forum.

best regards,
lenn B

 

[KelliH]

Just as many people do not ewant to wade through the non leo stuff in the leo forum, nor should they have to, nor was this site set up for them to have to do so. Don't you see this is not the community of Leo lovers! This is the community of faunaclassifieds, and it was set up for all to enjoy, but it does have rules and common courtesy should apply. Yet the Leo People, many of them, ignore all of this.

Like I already said Glenn, I do agree that OT posts should b

 

[KelliH]

Sorry about that. What I was saying was that, as I did state before, I do agree that off topic posts should be posted in the appropriate forum, ie ball python, bearded dragon or even the off topic forum. I did also state that I thought the link to the Off Topic Forum in the Leo Forum was a good idea that Rich came up with. Maybe I am right or wrong on that, I don't really know because, after all, it is only my opinion on the matter.

Aren't the other forums good enough for you? Isn't the set up of faunaclassifieds good enough for you? My guess would be no, because it seems only the Leo section is good enough for you

Yeah, I have 700 and some odd posts on Fauna, they are not all Leopard Gecko forum posts. I had several hundred posts here on Fauna before the Leopard Gecko forum even existed. So if it seems to you Glenn that only the Leo section is good enough for me, well, you're guess is incorrect. I can't speak for others BTW, only for myself of course. I mean for crying out loud, I breed leopard geckos, of course I am going to post a lot in the Leo Forum, right??

Isn't the set up of faunaclassifieds good enough for you? My guess would be no, because it seems only the Leo section is good enough for you you by the way being generic to leo forum users who persistently post non-leo threads in the leo forum - not any one person).

Again, I do not only post in the Leo Forum. I have posted in some of the other forums as well. But like I said, I am a leopard gecko breeder. I like them, I EVEN NAME SOME OF MY LEOS, oh heavens! So yes, obviously I am going to post in that particular forum more than any others because the majority of my collection consists of leopard geckos.

Are tou afraid that others will weasel their way into your close knit group your so caled community. Are you afraid that someone in your so called community will become infected by outside influence.

LMAO! Whatever Glenn. Yeah, like I don't want new people getting into leopard geckos. Hahaha I breed them and sell them, what do YOU think?! Infected by outside influence? LMFAO! Whatever!

By your own admission you brought people to the Leo Forum - not to faunaclassifieds - you make that distinction not me:

Bringing people to the Leo Forum IS bringing people to Fauna Classifieds, now isn't it Glenn?

Just by calling the leo forum a community you are being exclusive. This is not sharing, this is, as I see it, isolationist. I cannot stress the overall community is faunaclassifieds, not the Leo Forum.

I call the Leo Forum a community because that is what it is. Sorry you don't approve! I am PROUD of the fact that I was a part of building the Leo Forum here and making it the friendly COMMUNITY that it is. Yes of course the OVERALL community is faunaclassifieds but do you really expect all the leo people to force themselves to read and post in any of the other forums if they are not interested in reading the posts there? Of course you not.

Then you say you want people to feel welcome but that is not how it is perceived when you in essence exclude others in the OVERALL fc community by placing any subject you please inappropriately into the Leo forum.

I already stated my opinion regarding off topic posts, I said I think off topic posts should be placed in the appropriate forum. And I would like you to give me a specific example where I have excluded anyone from faunaclassifieds? Oh and what specifically were you referring to about me placing any subject I please in the Leo Forum. Please explain.

You came here, if I understand correctly, to get away from another site that was crappy. One that was cliquish in part. One that was elitist in part. Why spawn those same things here?

You didn't understand correctly. I came here because I grew tired of threads being deleted all the time. It had nothing to do with cliques or eliteness. I am not spawning anything, I am contributing to the Leopard Gecko Forum and the leopard gecko community.

However it is, in my opinion, not fine, but is rude, and rather snobby, when people in your so called community repeatedly stray from the subject. It sends the message that people who frequent other forums are not good enough to see these posts unless they come to the so called community of the Leopard Gecko forum. That is, as I see it, not right. By the way, no it is not just like a 'sometinmes thing' as it happens quite frequently as can be seen in my earlier posts - 17 posts, in 4 pages of posts, better fitted elsewhere but yet appearing in the leo forum.

Glenn that's fine, that is your opinion, I respect it. I am sorry you feel it is snobby and rude to stray from the subject in a thread. Sorry but that just happens sometimes. When threads stray too far off topic or get too heated or whatever, that is when a mod normally steps in and takes care of it with a gentle reminder. You're not a moderator here, are you Glenn? Guess what, neither am I.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Kelli,

You missed something in my post about the "you" being generic and not applying to you I guess.

GB

 

[cricket]

My opionion

Mr Bartley,

I feel that you are fully justified to post this post, but it has turned into a "civilized" pisssing contest.

I agree with you to an extent, which really is not my point. My point is this....

I am a fairly new memeber to fauna classifieds and I look at "veteran/seasoned" members such as yourself - to set an example for the rest of us newbies. I also tend to value the information from "veteran/seasoned" members for invaluable information that I take home with me and incorporate when caring for my herps.

I also see this thread, if it continues, to be placed in "hell". I have neverd ventured into hell because it has no value to me or to my herps.

I wish you would take all this extra time and energy that you have and post something myself and other newbies can use and value.

Just my opinion...

Tracey

 

[KelliH]

You missed something in my post about the "you" being generic and not applying to you I guess.

Glenn-

Considering you quoted ME four times in your post, what was I supposed to think?

Regards,
Kelli

Tracey-

Thanks for your input. I felt like I had to reply to Glenn's post as I took it as being directed at me, since he quoted my last post several times. You are right about setting an example, and I want to apologize to you if anything I posted in this thread offended you. Like I said, I felt I had to reply.