The Formation of Exclusive Cliques...

[Seamus Haley]

Tracey, I wouldn't be too worried about Glenn and Kelli getting the thread sent to hell, they're both masters of a sort of passive agressive debate form and neither one of them has, to the best of my knowledge, ever sunk to base vulgarity, mother jokes or simple smack talking. I have, I think it's a fairly good way of getting a point across with some emotional force at times and is occassionally appropriate... but these two aren't going to get the thread sent to hell.

As to the specifics here... Kelli has stated that she feels that posts which would be more appropriate in another forum should remain in that forum, rather than being posted directly in the leopard gecko section. I agree with her wholeheartedly. Glenn has stated that there is a sense of isolation within the leopard gecko forums, where some of the regular contributors don't seem to want to utilize other forums, even when they would be more appropriate to the topic. I also agree with him wholeheartedly.

The question really should be "How does this get fixed?" Webslave has suggested that he may soon be able to make boards which are linked... with posts and threads appearing in multiple forums. So that there could be a leopard gecko general BS forum where the posts appear simultaneously in the leopard gecko type forum and the general BS forum... I'm not certain this will fix the problem though.

It seems like a great solution for some of the friendly bantering storytelling posts which would otherwise just end up in the general BS forum, but that people wish to share with a specific group they have come to know and like... But it doesn't really do justice to the off topic posts which would end up in other forums. Is Rich going to have to make a subforum in the leopard gecko forums for "Leopard Gecko, Bearded Dragons" "Leopard Gecko, Feeder Insects" "Leopard Gecko BOI" and so forth? It'd be a lot simpler if people would simply utilize existing tools to share threads. Use the buddy list features built into the board for people who you want to regularly share threads with- if they're in the leopard gecko forum or elsewhere. Make a thread in the appropriate forum for the topic it's dealing with and then send a private message out to your buddylist... "Hey guys, here's a thread about my bearded dragon, I'd like your opinions if you have any." and boom, all those people who you wanted to share with now have a link. No fuss, no threads having to be moved to the appropriate forum making more work for the volunteer mods, the discussions can be shared with the group you have grown accustomed to AND open up conversation with others who may have been looking specifically for that topic in the correct forum.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

gee, where have I been?

I thought the "Leopard Gecko Forum" was for those interested in Leopard Geckos, and I post on the Leopard Gecko Forum because I keep Leopard Geckos exclusively. I do not keep boas, beardies, or iguanas, and therefore do not read or post on those particular forums. The vast majority of my questions and comments are geared towards the issues surrounding Leopard Geckos, so that is where I post. I honestly do not understand how this could seem to be "snubbing my nose" at anything or anyone, Glenn.

When I go to the BOI, it is for information on people that do business in the reptile community. When I go to the Feeder Forum, I have to wade through all the "furry and frozen" feeder threads for pertinent information in regard to feeding Leopard Geckos, and the gut-loading of insect feeders for Leopard Geckos may or may not have the same nutritional requirements for all insect eating reptiles. When I go to the Sound-Off Forum, it is for sharing issues that folks feel like 'sounding off' about... like this thread.

Both Glenn and Seamus have posted on the Leopard Gecko Forum, including contributing to a few 'off-topic' discussions. By the content of their posts, I didn't get the feeling that they felt snubbed in any way, and neither of them even keep Leopard Geckos! LOL! With all due respect, I cannot figure out why anyone that does not keep a specific species of reptile would be offended by the way a particular forum for that species has aligned itself.

Jenn, by what you stated in this thread, I'm sorry you feel like it is impossible to join in. I suppose it would be kind of like walking in on an already ongoing conversation... but if you listen and observe for a little while, you can usually pick up on the topic of discussion and add to the conversation. Same goes on any forum... we ALL started exactly the same way. By making our first post! After awhile, we do develop a sense of community, and eventually figure out who "Bob" really is.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I can't speak for Glenn, but Marcia you KNOW I'll stick my nose in any conversation that happens to catch my attention on any forum anywhere...

What the problem was and still, to some degree is, with the leopard gecko forum are the posts which are STARTED on a subject which is not appropriate for the forum. You may not keep any of those other species, but some people who regularly participate in the leopard gecko forum do and they have been placing posts and starting thread about them in the leopard gecko category. A thread titled "Look at my boa" doesn't belong in the leopard gecko forum, no matter what kind of community sense a user may feel there. A thread that doesn't mention ANY reptiles even once really doesn't belong there either, and there are a few of those too... Since these discussions it seems to have slowed a bit and the forum seems a bit more "on track"... I've been watching and reporting more blatant violations of the forum subject so I kind of know what I've seen anyway and it seems better now that people have expressed themselves and Rich had made his position pretty clear.

 

[riverjop]

listen!

Sure there are OT posts from time to time, and yes they should be posted in their proper forum, but by and large I am interested in things that happen to the people who call "leopard gecko" forum there home! I really don't see the harm when someone like Robin tells us her fingers got glued together! (she's always got her fingers into something anyway! LOL) Or if so and so wreaked there car the other day. To me it's interesting, if only because it has to do with someone who has the same interests as I do!
Look...if this forum got to the point that it was strictly about the day to day mundane things that had only to do with leopard geckos (the things that allot of people who post and come here every day know inside and out) do you really think that they would continue to come back, to read another request about what kind of substrate they should use or how many meal worms should they feed there leo every week?
No way!!! This forum would be made up of new subscribers, who were looking for answers...but there wouldn't be anyone here to answer their questions! Why?....cause it would be boring!!!
Even if you make a special little place off in the corner for O/T subjects, your still going to find them ...right there sitting in the middle of where they shouldn't be. There's nothing you can do...it will happen! The best we can do is re-direct the O/T posts to the proper place, but when I come here to read about the "people" who happen to enjoy the same interests as I, and their are nothing but posts about sand or tile. I guess that will be time to move on.



Oh by the way Kelli you've got 769 posts and your starting to use up valuable gigabytes.
And Seamus?....dosen't that hurt your head doing that?

 

[robin d.]

After awhile, we do develop a sense of community, and eventually figure out who "Bob" really is.

Hi, i'm the REAL Bob i keep geckos lizards and snakes , OH MY!!!!

I've been watching and reporting more blatant violations of the forum subject

Narc, sure gotta lot of time on your hands......

 

[Manhattan Herps]

My 2 cents

I agree to the point where OT posts should be in an appropriate forum,
but..why not put a little fun into it? occasional jokes in a thread or playful name calling doesnt bother me, i think it makes the threads worth reading, why keep a forum where over 200 people post boring? i think some people are being a bit uptight here..

that comment about not calling eachothers leos by their names was in my opinion completely rediculous, anyone and everyone on the leo forum calles eachothers leos by name, if anyone feels left out, let them speak up, like kelli said she, and everyone else on the leo foum are not at all snobby little brats who think they're better than everyone else, if anyone feels left out, the first thing we would do is welcome that person in,

many people who have over 200 posts mainly post in different forums, pointing the finger at just one person is unfair, i have over 300, i have many posts in the leo foum but about 150 of those posts are in the ball pythons forum, the geckos foum, the classifieds forums and more..

by doing this and not alowing anyone to have a bit of fun in the leo foums is going to eventually chase away users or make them afraid to because some others will verbally pound their faces into the wall

this is just my 2 cents..wasnt meant to offend anyone if it did

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

ditto

I've been watching and reporting more blatant violations of the forum subject

Not to mention wondering if the covert intelligence operations (code name "tattle-tail") is monitoring our every post.

 

[riverjop]

I've been watching and reporting more blatant violations of the forum subject

OH my gosh!!!!!
I better hide my posting pen! someone's gonna take it away!


Is this how germany was in 1938?

 

[robin d.]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been watching and reporting more blatant violations of the forum subject
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to mention wondering if the covert intelligence operations (code name "tattle-tail") is monitoring our every post.

again NARC

 

[Seamus Haley]

[Satire] Ah yes... How DARE I utilize the tools Rich has provided for assisting the moderators when I notice blatant and deliberate violations of the few rules he has chosen to apply to his website?! Obviously Rich is just a tyrant webmaster who runs his board solely for the thrill he gets by exerting control and dominance, the entire website is like Orwell's 1984- a post apocolyptic nightmare of personal freedom's lost![/Satire]

Boo goddamn hoo, some of you were apparantly not bright enough to figure out the appropriate forums for your posts and they were reported to the moderation team so that they could be moved to an APPROPRIATE forum for the benefit of all. If some of you could learn to read and analyze the subjects of your post, realize that they weren't leopard gecko related and find the proper place to begin with, there would be no problems.

Given the obvious refusal to acknowledge that it's only respectful of Rich to follow the rules he has set forth, including those about topical posts and thread creation, I once again state that I believe warning points applied in the same manner as the full name rule would be an appropriate solution. Once or twice is a mistake and some posts are the result of obvious confusion about a forum's topic... For these a reminder and redirection is sent to the poster without points being issued. Continued refusal to follow the rules that the individual is now well aware of (or for long time frequent posters who know the rules to begin with) a warning point is issued for the first few infractions or when infractions are widely spaced. When infractions are constant, redirection is ignored or infractions are deliberate, posts are subject to immediate deletion and greater numbers of warning points are issued as successive punishments. The moderator team has always shown excellent judgement about such matters and has demonstrated that they can clearly determine an innocent mistake from a punishable incident and they're also perfectly able to distinguish between threads which drift slowly off topic and threads created in an inappropriate forum or posts within a thread which are blatantly unrelated to the forum and thread they have been placed in.

 

[robin d.]

Given the obvious refusal to acknowledge that it's only respectful of Rich to follow the rules he has set forth

you are in direct of a new rule in which rich set, which limits the amount of lines in our signature to 4... you exceed this yours is 5 so boo frickondy hoo...... narc... i guess whats good for the goose isnt nessisarily good for the gander.......

 

[robin d.]

that shgould read in direct violation

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Gimme a Break!!!

...greater numbers of warning points are issued as successive punishments.

Seamus, you are one of Fauna's biggest blatant and deliberate violators of the "few rules that Rich has chosen to apply to his website", or havent you counted all of YOUR own points lately?

Given the obvious refusal to acknowledge that it's only respectful of Rich to follow the rules he has set forth...

Since when have you acquired such a great respect for Rich and his rules? Or did all those points just come out of nowhere? I find it extremely difficult to take you as seriously as you obviously take yourself.

The moderator team has always shown excellent judgement about such matters and has demonstrated that they can clearly determine an innocent mistake from a punishable incident...

And since Seamus has accumulated so many points assumingly without the benefit of reporting them to the moderators himself, I would say that they are doing a fine job moderating the forums on their own!

 

[robin d.]

oh lets not talk points.... all mine were well earned except thje last threeit was sorta a shock but whatever...... i may not have as many points as seamus buti have blatantly broken the rules (knowning i would get points even before i hit submit)

 

[Seamus Haley]

Uhh... Robin...

"Genes, like Leibnitz's monads, have no windows; the higher properties of life are emergent... And once assembled, organisms have no windows." - Edward Wilson, Sociobiology
"Trust me, Randy knows what he's talking about." -Ian

Is four lines.

It's been four lines for a good month or so now, since I was made aware of the lower limit and removed my name from the signature line, assuming that having it as a login handle worked...

Yours however doesn't seem to be four lines.

Seamus, you are one of Fauna's biggest blatant and deliberate violators of the "few rules that Rich has chosen to apply to his website", or havent you counted all of YOUR own points lately?

Over the course of time, they have accumulated a bit, yup. I've also been a registered member since 2002. If one looks at the RATE of point violations, I'm not actually all *that* terrible.

The issue is still neither here nor there... Pointing out my violations of the rules doesn't somehow excuse the violations of others. I have explained why these threads started in an inappropriate forum are damaging to the site, why they are negative and have even explained the easy ways of sharing a thread with whoever you want while respecting Rich's site (Incidentally, since we want to compare such things, I have disrespected a few of Rich's members but never Rich himself or the website).

I'm not sure if any of "you" realize it or not but many of the actions that some are taking in direct response to this thread and my views are the quickest way to cause the moderators to really be forced to crack down. Rather than looking at the situation and deciding to be a little more careful about topical posts so the entire thing goes away, some of you are starting additional off topic threads. Pushing the mods against a wall may not be the best way to encourage a positive solution, eh? The more flagrantly the rules are broken, the sooner Rich and his moderation team are forced to make some decisions as it escalates out of control. Given that he created the rule to begin with but enforcement has been somewhat lax because it was not previously considered serious, do you really want to make it serious and force their hands?

By all means, go for it. If they start retroactively applying points for off topic thread creation there are a few who're arguing with me who's point totals will quickly surpass mine.

 

[Gary O]

I do not mean to jump in here and get off subject but then again it isn't off suject.

Why does everyone attack Seamus and think he is such a bad guy. Seamus is smart and he puts a lot of thought in his posts. You always know where Seamus stands on something. More then I can say for many other people..........

I have never had a problem with Seamus. Who cares if he has points or doesn't. Seamus knows his stuff and is quick to help others. Some take his posts as personal attacks on them but they are not.

I just see people trying to put Seamus down for no reason. Are these people trying to bait him? Not sure........................

 

[robin d.]

this is what it looks like on my screen

"Genes, like Leibnitz's monads, have no windows; the higher properties of life are emergent... And once
assembled, organisms have no windows." - Edward
Wilson, Sociobiology
"Trust me, Randy knows what he's talking about." -Ian

i see five lines... and i added a few to my signature just to make a point so, boo frickon hoo

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

AWWWW!!!

Poor Seamus! The way I personally pick on Seamus pales in comparison to the methods he has used to pick on me! LOL!!! I'm sure he can take it... he sure can dish it! As far as how many points he has, it's not so much the number as much as the reason he got them. If you get bored, take a look at all of his points and the corresponding threads where he earned them... perhaps then you will know why we are "picking on him for no good reason."

Seamus knows his stuff and is quick to help others. Some take his posts as personal attacks on them but they are not.

Being intelligent and being wise are two separate things. I have never had the honor of seeing where Seamus has helped anyone but himself, and his personal attacks against some forum members has been VERY personal.

Gary O, if you can show me a thread where Seamus actually helped someone without personally attacking them, please find it and post the link!

 

[jenn_jeffery]

Just for note, I only see 4 lines in the sig place for Seamus...I think it depends on the resolution your monitor is set at.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

This is TOOOOO funny!!! Chad posted and OT post on the Leopard Gecko Forum regarding Bearded Dragons. Seamus posted an OT post on that thread regarding OT posts!!!

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46083