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Bad Guy TIBOR PAPP DEAL BREAKER

Summit Reptiles said:
I'm not saying his decision to shop the litter was the best idea after he and I had talked
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It appears he may have sold these critters twice? Once to you, and once to an innocent buyer who actually sent payment as requested?

That sort of transaction is horribly unethical, and puts any prospective future buyer on notice that any deals done with him might not go through.

Food on the table? Many who buy and sell here feed their families and manage to be ethical at the same time. That didn't happen here because of Tibor's unethical behavior.
 
But, if you two already had a deal, why would he even entertain another "hand for part of the group you were buying". maybe my practices are not up to these days standards, but if i say to one person (first person who offered), "yes, you have a deal, these snakes for this amount of money", in my eyes, done deal. all other futures offers are not entertained, nor excepted.
that being said, maybe that is how its done as a business, but as a hobbiest of this great world, if i say yes to an offer (lot alone a first offer), ethics tell me, its done.
 
That is why I am saying that I don't think he made the right choice to accept someone else's money or even entertain the idea of doing so once him and I had a deal. And trust me, it cost me money and I was in an odd spot myself because I did feel like the deal was done already. So, I agree he made an error in judgement, but I feel that's all it was and there was certainly no malicious intent on his part. Tibor is one of the most sincere people I have ever met and I honestly feel he just made a poor judgement call and we should probably leave it at that and not turn him into a poster boy for all things evil.
 
Summit Reptiles said:
I agree he made an error in judgement
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You are entitled to put any kind of spin on this transaction that you wish. He made not just a little teeny error, he actually sold a group of critters which had been already sold, and asked the buyer to send payment, and the innocent buyer did send payment.

The only way for you to right this error is to send the critters to the innocent buyer. If you keep them, that's fine, apparently you bought them first, but don't come on here trying to putting a spin onto something that was just wrong.

Even if something is done to make the second buyer happy, it is going to be a while if ever, before a future prospective buyer would risk a transaction with Tibor.

And what did Tibor say? Has he made any effort toward reparation? NO! Here is what he said: essentially, 'tough fecal matter'.



JPCONS said:
here was his ans.
..thats a deal I needed sorry..offered it to you as well..oh well ..sorry all the best,tibor
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Ed Clark said:
I would not hold anything with the promise of a check being sent unless the buyer sends me the tracking number on the overnighted letter with the check in it.then I would hold.
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I rarely sends checks/MOs but, the times I have, I, automatically sent it/them priority mail so that I can have a tracking number. Then, I sent the tracking number to the seller (whether asked for or not). This is the way I will always do it should I ever have to do this again.
However, not everyone is the same.
In this case, the seller did not state that he required a tracking number nor did he ask for one.
If a tracking number is not requested, or stated to be required, there should be no expectation to receive one and the deal/contract should be kept intact until a ~reasonable~ amount of time has elapsed (for check to come in).
 
I don't agree with Tibor's decision here, and I think he made an error that would make anyone who doesn't know him scratch their head and really question his integrity.

Fortunately guys like Brandon and I DO know him, and although you probably have no reason to believe either of us when we say this... but Tibor is probably one of the nicest most genuine breeders I know.

No one "lost" anything, and if the OP wants to pm me their paypal account I'll cover the stop payment fees so that everyone can walk away with nothing more than irritation and some wasted time.

Regards,
Jordan
 
I dont think thats the point, that he had a lapse in judgement or a poor judgement episode, or whatever. Its about doing the right thing. Tibor has been around awhile, he knows how it works (or is supposed to work). Its not just about something that happens in this hobby. Its about proper ethics and morals. Its about proper communication. If you had an oral agreement to purchase said snakes, thats where it should stop (until either you both come to an agreement that its a no go, or as said, a reasonable amount of time has passed for any further communication and/or payment). Until then, though, those snakes should not be even considered offered.
 
TIBOR PAPP said:
so sorry Joe..selling online is tuff..when he low balled me..I looked else where to sell my own cb boas...thats really the bottom line...and had many interested parties..and some that wanted both...is it not my decision whom I sell to?..as long as I had not used their $$....I'm honest, I can sleep @ night.
really its not worthy of a boi thread.
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You are correct, it is your right to refuse sale to someone. However, this must be done ~prior~ to an agreement/contract &/or if the buyer breaches the agreement/contract.
If you did not like the deal, you should have said "No thank you, I'll pass" from the very beginning.

You may not be a thief (since you sent the money back) but you did break an agreement/contract.

Although, regardless of legalities, etc., I, myself, would have some leniency, to someone breaking a contract, if it is learned that the buyer abuses their animals, etc.... but that is a whole different matter.;)

Whenever I make a deal with someone, I will hold true to that deal no matter if another buyer came along, afterward, that would benefit me better (such as offering twice/thrice what I agreed to, with the initial party, etc.). My word is bond.
What happened to the days when a person's word meant so much to them?<rhetorical>
 
Summit Reptiles said:
You also must understand that he is not the type of guy who has the hobby's best interests at heart so take it easy on him.
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Can you explain this. I don't know if I get what you are saying. He doesn't take the hobby's interests at heart? Does this mean he thinks about his interests first? If so, why should we take it easy on him? Seems to me he says the OP lowballed him, yet he got more money out of you? He may be a nice guy, but those aren't the kind of standards we need in this hobby. Sorry if I misunderstood.
 
Two of the posters that no the subject of this thread keep using adjectives like "honest, genuine, ethical and real" when describing him. That may be how your transactions have gone but this one was the absolute opposite.

It never ceases to amaze me how someone can completely ignore a major breach of ethics like this simply because their transactions went well.

Definitely worthy of the BOI.

Definitely demonstrates a major lack of character.

I agree with his first supporter...definitely does not have the best interests of the hobby at heart
 
Tibor is one of the true good guys. I bought a pair of boas from him 6 years ago.
He is a rare genuine breeder that we don't see so much of in this hobby.

There is no way for Tibor to know that the OP wasn't bluffing about the check, heck, animals are bought and not followed through with the payment all the time. I don't see too many sellers coming here and whining that the check never arrived.

Jordan that's a real nice thing to do!
 
Actually he got less money from me I believe, but since I bought both litters instead of one he got more total money from me, but less for the litter OP was wanting to buy.

Another note on Tibor, his communication on the deal was no doubt poor and I believe that is why he stays out of selling on the internet and prefers to sell the entire litter to one buyer and this particular time things got a little messy. I'm sorry for the other gentlemen that he lost some time dealing with it and that Tibor chose to offer the snakes to you at all and trust me this hurt me a little too, but I think its fair to say it did not alter anyones life in a way that cannot be repaired with some sleep and maybe $35 for your stop payment fee which I will send to you as well if it will make you feel better.

As for the snakes, they are already sold and have been for over a week now, so unfortunately I cannot offer them to him. I'm sorry.
 
Laura Fopiano said:
There is no way for Tibor to know that the OP wasn't bluffing about the check
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Laura, he ASKED for the check, he could have had payment via Paypal.

JPCONS said:
I offered to pay-pal him the money or use them(pay-pal) for a deposit. He told me to send a check .
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The seller requested a check, the check is mailed, the parties made a contract. Tibor broke that contract for the lame reason that he felt he was lowballed, even though he accepted the buyer's offer.
That's not ethical.
 
Summit Reptiles said:
I think its fair to say it did not alter anyones life in a way that cannot be repaired with some sleep and maybe $35 for your stop payment fee
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It has altered Tibor's life. Before this disaster, he had a good reputation.
 
Lucille said:
Laura, he ASKED for the check, he could have had payment via Paypal.



The seller requested a check, the check is mailed, the parties made a contract. Tibor broke that contract for the lame reason that he felt he was lowballed, even though he accepted the buyer's offer.
That's not ethical.
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You beat me to it Lucille.

Absolutely no defense on this one. The seller took the path of least resistance and gave absolutely no thought to the buyer. His cavalier response on this thread stinks as well.
 
Tibor will ALWAYS have a GREAT reputation to me and to everyone else that knows him. He may not have handled this deal to everyones liking, but please dont call this a "disaster" sheesh. Like others have said, probally one of the most honest, straight forward people I know period. His animals are second to none.
Todd Dyer
 
Ed Clark said:
I would not hold anything with the promise of a check being sent unless the buyer sends me the tracking number on the overnighted letter with the check in it.then I would hold.
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I actually tend to agree with that Ed with one proviso...you have to communicate the terms to the buyer. In this instance, the buyer offered either a deposit or payment by PayPal and the seller said it was unnecessary.

I am sure you can see the difference
 
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