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Tom Crutchfield: Greatest Reptile Dealer of All Time?

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David,

With all due respect, we do know some facts. He is twice convicted of illegal activities in the reptile business and that he fled the jurisdiction to avoid one of those prosecutions. That history is hardly in dispute.

So the question arises, will that history have a negative impact on our hobby, a positive impact, or no impact at all? I think that we all agree that it won't have been positive. Clearly, lawmakers and regulators have people like him (and Mike Barrera and most sadly Don Hamper) in mind when they propose ever more restrictive laws on importation of non-native herps and on the herp trade in general.

Does any of that take away from what Tom or Don have accomplished? Of course not. But nor do their accomplishments nullify the potential harm they have caused. In Tom's case, he got caught twice meaning he was either greedy or stupid. Since no one here accuses him of stupidity, greed is the probably answer. While he may have done a lot to encourage a lot of young herpers, Bruce and you being among them, he potentially caused a heap of harm for many others. I don't need to "know" him to know that.
 
There does not seem to be any doubt in my mind

that these motives were motivated by greed and stupidity. As much as I enjoy Toms company and I happen to know Don as well, taking everything into account, the cost far outweighs the profit that they incurred. For Tom as we all know, he served his time, and Don is just starting his! But they both got caught, and as each one serves his penalty, the book should be closed.

I find it impractical to apply whether anything is gained from the good or bad someone provided an industry. These were self motivated deals for profit. The only value knowing people who have been through the legal mill is to learn as an example of what you can expect if you attempt to circumvent the law. When I see Tom or when I saw Don this summer in Daytona, I could not but feel sorry for both of them. Tom is a has been, a nice guy, very friendly, but more of an oddity to look at then admire. Don, at his age should be enjoying his life with his familty instead of being in prison. Also a nice guy, friendly, but stupid for risking everything including his family for what! Some animals. Certainly not worthy of admiration.

I dont think any risk greater than one would normally take in doing business with either of these people is required. Their pasts are part of history, and history has a way of repeating itself. Use caution when conducting business as you would with anyone in the herp field, and if its necessary to rely on past performances for an indication of a current deal, you will find the simplest solution is usually the correct one. Be careful.
 
The Truth is....

What Tom C., Mike B., Don H., and others who've gotten caught have in common is jail time and fines. What bothers me is I've read countless times here is that they have or are currently paying their dues. I totally disagree with this attitude. The fact is, as a result of their illegal activities, those of us that choose to work within the law are being over scrutinized by various government entities. These people's illegal actions only serve to provide more fuel and ammunition to against our trade. Where does everyone think the money goes from fines that are levied? It just allows the government entities involved to grow and become overzealous passing more and more legislation to snuff out our interests.
Mike Barrera's attitude is one of, hey, I made sh*tloads of money so I'll do my time and still have plenty to show for it when I get out of jail. Meanwhile those of us that go by the letter of the law work at a disadvantage because we don't have the funding coming in from illegal deals that bring in easy money.
From an environmental standpoint there's a reason certain animals are endangered and protected by law. I love the beauty of Figi Iguanas but if everyone goes there and rapes the wildlife they will go the way of Hog Island boas in short order. Not long ago Bald Eagles were endangered and protected. Their reduction in numbers was not only due to use of DDT but poaching as well. As a result of having protected staus their numbers have flourished. I can't tell you the thrill of seeing one fly overhead in the wild.
There is nothing honorable about dealing in illegal animals and, contrary to what many think, none of these people have "paid the price" as far as I'm concerned. Why do you feel this way? Simply because you know them or think they're "nice guys"? Anyone out there still practicing dealing illegally had best smarten up because what you're doing affects and hurts us all.
 
Greg, allot of illegal activities pertaining to

Herps were going on well before The Crutchfields and the Hampers. The priorities on restricting herps has been a see saw game for years with F/W. Sometimes their are no restrictions, limited restrictions and full restrictions. Laws are not as clear cut as they should be and depending on the law enforcement agency, its a toss of the coin as to whether a law has been broken that relates to animals or even paperwork (as demonstrated) in Daytona, this Aug) and finally allot depends on the aggressiveness of the F/W people who inforce these laws.

But in all cases, if you paid the fine, or did the time, you have met your obligation. . Before you blame the few for the conditions that seem to pervade this industry, look at the totality with all the millions of dollars worth of legal sales, on a yearly basis. I think your over exaggurating the importance of some of these people. Insofar as these people being nice, outside of the herp arena you would be surprised how pleasant they can be. That certainly includes Tom Crutchfield and Don Hamper. Their are others as well.
 
David, you assume that I do not know Tom and have not met him and talked to him now? I have met Tom many times and have talked to him many times. In fact the only thing that kept me from conducting a couple good sized deals with him back in the early 90's was his ripping off people I knew just before I pulled the trigger and gave him my money. I got lucky.

Greg, thank you for those comments.

I have known Don Hamper for many many years, since about 1990 or so and it makes me very sad that he has to spend any time in any jail at all. Don has always been very gracious to me with his time, knowledge and animals. It is a testement to his character that Don is taking his punishment head on and being the man that we all knew him to be. You can't compare Tom to Don in that respect. Tom ran away and fought with everything he had not to come back to the United States. That just is not the same level of character or integrity.

Maybe Tom has cleaned up his act and is a great person to deal with now, but sadly, he no longer has the amazing animals and contacts he had back in the day. He squandered that all away and now he is selling animals you can get from a pet shop. I wish him all the best, but I take issue with people who will try to be revisionist and re-write history to favor their friends.

The reality is, like it or not, that every piece of bad press and bad publicity hurts us more than thousands of positive pieces help us due to the simple fact that the majority of people in this country already think we are a bunch of back alley dealing criminals who work with scary, horrible animals that nobody should have the right to own. All these tales do for us is reinforce that misconception.
 
Dealing in reptiles?

I am probably wrong but I thought part of Don's penalty was that he could no longer own any reptiles even after he returns home.
Evidently Tom isn't under the same restriction.
 
I believe the restriction, in both cases, is only for a specified period, which in Tom's case evidently has passed.
 
I am not to sure about Toms

ability to import. Their may be some restrictions I know that any booth that he is at belongs to someone else. I know he was working at a venomous table this year in Daytona. With regard to Don, I saw him as well in Daytona, and I spent the better part of time just shaking my head and wondering what was going through this mans mind when he got himself mixed up with the mess he was in. He pleaded guilty, and is presently serving prison time.

This is a perfect example of a worthless risk to oneself, family and friends.
 
DragonCharm said:
I hear Jim S and Bill Leverton are available. :hehe:
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Oh no! Some liar, crook and thief gave me negative rep points for the above post. Hi Bill, glad to see your still around......hope those double thick boxes are working out for your shipping needs.
 
DragonCharm said:
Oh no! Some liar, crook and thief gave me negative rep points for the above post. Hi Bill, glad to see your still around......hope those double thick boxes are working out for your shipping needs.
Click to expand...
Thanks Richard, yes I am, They seem to be. But thank you for your concern.
 
bill, just in case some part of you still cares, your sarcasm does not assist your image at all.
 
Tom Crutchfield Membership

Tom Crutchfield has asked me to post a response specifically for Evan Stahl. However, as I believe this is against the rules, I am hereby purchasing a membership here for Tom Crutchfield. I do not know if he will post, but prepare yourselves. :cool:
 
I find the negative rep points ironic.

Bill, what happened to taking your knocks? You were due a few and you probably still are, don't you think? hitting your critics with negative rep points does not demonstrate remorse, it just shows your combative nature. Ya, he took a cheap shot at you, but come on now, did you expect any less? When you did what you did, you were basically setting yourself up for this. You made your bed, now if you are the butt of a few jokes as a result, than I would think that it should be expected. My advice would be to just ignor it. Things here are not ever going to be the like the were for you, and the sooner you realize that the better.
 
Wilomn said:
bill, just in case some part of you still cares, your sarcasm does not assist your image at all.
Click to expand...
Wes it wasnt sarcasm I was being polite,or at least thought I was
pch101 said:
I find the negative rep points ironic.
Bill, what happened to taking your knocks? You were due a few and you probably still are, don't you think? hitting your critics with negative rep points does not demonstrate remorse, it just shows your combative nature. Ya, he took a cheap shot at you, but come on now, did you expect any less? When you did what you did, you were basically setting yourself up for this. You made your bed, now if you are the butt of a few jokes as a result, than I would think that it should be expected. My advice would be to just ignor it. Things here are not ever going to be the like the were for you, and the sooner you realize that the better.
Click to expand...
James you are right My bad
 
Wes it wasnt sarcasm I was being polite,or at least thought I was
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Bill,

You still seem to find amusing to insult the intelligence of the people that frequent this site, both openly and in private.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Bill,
You still seem to find amusing to insult the intelligence of the people that frequent this site, both openly and in private.
Click to expand...
I dont try to openly but the privite thing has got me lost.
 
Wtf!!!!

DragonCharm said:
I hear Jim S and Bill Leverton are available. :hehe:
Click to expand...


When are you guys going to just let this go, Bill re-payed his debt, apologized to those who lost faith in him, and now is trying to partipate in a conversation, giving his own personal dealing and opinions about Tom, not you or anyone else for that matter.

If you have anything relatively intelligent to say about either one of these gentlemen, keep it in their own threads, and don't clutter Toms by trying to flame others!!
 
Bruce, just out of curiosity, how old are you? You really are just amazingly immature. You are threatening me with a big response from Tom? I should really be worried as I have posted nothing but facts in this thread, unlike you. You accused me of things I did not even post because you were not able to read the other names posting the things you accused me of? You really need to just get your foot out of your mouth already. And then you went and bought Tom a membership so he could post against me here? What is he going to say that we have to "prepare for" Bruce? That he was innocent? That he did not flee the US to avoid prosecution? That he did not fight extradition? That he was not eventually dragged back to the USA by the United States government? That is all I have said Bruce and those statements are facts Bruce. You can confirm facts and those statements can be confirmed. You are just posting defense for people and attacking others based on what? Your personal feelings? So please Bruce Tell me what it is that I posted that I need to "prepare" for a response from Tom for? I would like to know.
 
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