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Tom Crutchfield: Greatest Reptile Dealer of All Time?

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DavidButton said:
Hey, I never said that the tings he did that got him into trouble were right or that I condoned hsi actions. Hell, it wasn't the first time he had gotten into trouble for the same thing. But I am saying that people can change and that we should give them the chance to do so. Tom is probably one of the most knowledgeable herp people on the planet and that is whe I admire about him. Not his illegal practices. Now he is trying to come back into the world that he loves and I think he should be given that chance, and the benefit of the doubt that he is going to do things right and not break any laws or screw anyone.

David Button

I have never met him. I would like to because he is one of the great legends, but as a novice "kid" in the hobby, I can tell you that his company sent me some crap. Either or, I still enjoyed getting his lists, and looked forward to getting them each month. He was a great salesman. Eventhough he was the first to offer many things like albino alligators, and albino iguanas, which in itself is impressive, he was also the first salesman to go down for smuggling rare endangered Fiji Iguanas, among other things.

Everybody deserves a second chance, especially with the time that has passed. If he came back, I'd buy from if he had something I wanted. He has officially paid his debt to society, but he should be mindful of debts to individuals.

Sean P.
 
evansnakes said:
So just because somebody is your friend or you like them it is OK for them to lie, cheat, traffic in and kill endangered speices and rip people off? And Randall, after working for Tom I would think you would have some sympathy for the others who were working for him in the end and when he ran out of the USA to avoid prosecution the government went after them. Knowing this he still fled and refused to come back. The only reason he returned at all was due to the agents going and getting him and dragging him back. The "stories" are true for folks like Jerry who just remember those great old days. Tom sent people junk. He sent people dead animals that were dead prior to shipping. He sent people who paid top dollar, b grade or worse product. Where do you think all his junk went? He sold it to somebody. Now you good old boys can think back to those happier, simpler days, but when you do, try to remember what actually went on and not an idealized version of it. I have friends in this industry that have been in prison and they are my friends regardless but it does not change the facts that they did what they did. Tom is the same case. And for Hank Molt, it is pretty common knowledge what Hank has done over the years and there is a good reason that most of the old timers avoid him at shows and will not talk to him. Guys like Tom and Hank have a small group of old time herp guys who hang out with them, but most people see them for what they are. Guys who smuggled, trafficked and sold animals they knew they should not have. Hank even just a couple years ago did a big number on his partner in their petshop in Georgia. At least Tom seems to be making an effort to not break the law.

Evan,
I have no sympathy for anyone who worked for Tom (after I left) I might feel a little sorry for them though.

I simply stated that I liked Tom and that he brought in some great animals. However, I never saw or we never shipped out "dead", B-grade animals when I was in charge then, never happened. What happened before my employment, is no concern to me, nor was it any of my business.
Tom treated me fair, and paid me very well. I was also allowed to "hand pick" snakes for my own private collection before we offered them to sell to the public.
Evan, I have always thought of you as a knowledgible reptile guy, and I am sorry you or your friends have had bad dealings with Tom, BUT, that doesn't diminish my feelings about Tom, nor the positive things that he has done for the hobby.
Ahh, the Hank Molt thing, no comment! LOL!
BTW, I guess I AM old (52), but pls don't lump me in with that group of "geezers" LOL!
 
Smuggling

I'm not advocating smuggling reptiles but just what do you suppose Tom was going to do with the Fiji Iguanas? Sell them to some 12 year old to keep in a tank on his dresser? I'm sure they would have ended up in the hands of serious people with the intention of breeding them.

Lets not forget how one of the most plentiful reptile in the pet trade today - THE BEARDED DRAGON - got into the US and look what has happened to it - it certainly hasn't been hurt by its questionable origin. I think Knob Tails and Cresteds had the same route too?
 
Memory lane

The memory lane aspect of this thread is a lot of fun. To the individual with the binders of old reptile lists .... hell, I'll pay for your table at Daytona just to put them on display! You could probably frame a few and make a profit. Tomorrow is my big 50th, and I recall dealings with many of those pictured. Missing is Old Man Thompson, of "Thompson Zoo" fame??? Would like to admit that he pulled more than one Drymarchon out of a bag at his place outside Clewiston in the mid 70's, and sold them to me, but they must have been racers! If some punk with a knife hadn't taken his life some time ago, likely time would have gotten him by now anyway.

With regard to the law and illegal activity, Tom paid his dues, and I for one was glad to see him come back from Belize and get it behind him. As for bad business deals, etc, they are still his to bear. Was not on the receiving end of any of those.

Have you got any old catalogues from Exotic Animal Importers, Hialeah, FL, late 60'ish? Thanks.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC
 
For the record, I bought quite a bit of stuff from Tom back in the 80s. Both as stuff shipped in to me and as a walk-in customer. When my wife and I would take vacations in southwest Florida, we ALWAYS stopped in at Tom's shop and usually came home with some stuff. Tom often would take us to his house to show us his crocs and tortoises. And I was a nobody. I never spent all that much money, but Tom always treated me like I was a valued customer. I would have to say that those visits to his facility were one of the most enjoyable aspects of those vacations we used to take.

Matter of fact, it was Tom Crutchfield who first ever suggested that maybe I should make my snake breeding into a business. So he definitely was an influence on my future at the time.

Yeah, every once in a while I would have a problem with something, but I found Tom reasonable to work with and he always made it right.
 
Quote: "I'm not advocating smuggling reptiles but just what do you suppose Tom was going to do with the Fiji Iguanas? Sell them to some 12 year old to keep in a tank on his dresser? I'm sure they would have ended up in the hands of serious people with the intention of breeding them.

Lets not forget how one of the most plentiful reptile in the pet trade today - THE BEARDED DRAGON - got into the US and look what has happened to it - it certainly hasn't been hurt by its questionable origin. I think Knob Tails and Cresteds had the same route too?"


This is the main point of the Crutchfield Fan Club: We should be able to obtain founder stock of any reptile we want for breeding for the hobby and trade without interstate permits. Fijis, Radiateds, Plowshares, Indigos, Galops and most other so called "endangereds" would be common by now! George Bush - Please change the laws before it's too late for us breeders to save them!!!!!!!!
 
I don't see any comparison to Fiji Island Iguanas and Bearded Dragons. Is it safe to assume that some of these *collected, endangered Fiji Iguanas smuggled might have been female? What does the ecosystem and species benefit from captive breeding of illegal specimens. All the offspring are driven underground.

It's all in the past now anyway, but it's a worthy point.

I'm going to go thru my old boxes and see what I can find. I think I only have like 2 or 3 old lists here. I have alotta old "Glades" lists, a Hogtown Herp, and maybe 1 old Zooherp list.
 
brucestephenson said:
This is the main point of the Crutchfield Fan Club: We should be able to obtain founder stock of any reptile we want for breeding for the hobby and trade without interstate permits. Fijis, Radiateds, Plowshares, Indigos, Galops and most other so called "endangereds" would be common by now! George Bush - Please change the laws before it's too late for us breeders to save them!!!!!!!!

Bruce,

This isn't a good idea. CITES regulations need to be in place to preserve the species and all wildlife. NOT so you can keep them and enjoy privately. If you want protected wildlife, follow the correct procedure, get the permit, set up housing and above all...RESPECT THE LAW!

Sean P.
 
Further, I think the reasoning behind optaining the USDI permit lies so people can't go out and collect WC animals that are endangered. The permit puts checks in place. If anyone can have them w/o a permit, and we allow interstate commerce to take place to holders who don't have a permit, what's to stop the person who doesn't have a permit from collecting endangered animals illegally in the first place? Thus, you need the permit.

My last post wasn't to imply that you don't, "respect the law". Please don't take it that way.
 
Don Williams----HAS NEVER POSTED ANYTHING !!!!

I talked w/Don this afternoon, he has never posted anything about anyone !! He doesn't have nor does he know how to operate a computer....Sounds like the sick BASTA*D is once again playing games....he is in for some real surprises this hunting season....many collectors are making a special trip to meet Bad As@ Bob and I understand that it is not for a social get together...oh well, he earned it and deserves it ----I really believe he is going to receive many "blessings"....I haven't hunted in years but sure plan to do so this year----It is going to be a crowd pleasing season---yes sir, with ol Hung Foo Bobbie...99th degree in bullsh%t. :raspberry :raspberry ... Randall, Don said nothing about Tommy--hell, he doesn't even know him ! Take care, Earl T.
 
OLD PRICE LIST ? Here ya go

I gots " million " of em !
 

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Bruce said: "This is the main point of the Crutchfield Fan Club: We should be able to obtain founder stock of any reptile we want for breeding for the hobby and trade without interstate permits. Fijis, Radiateds, Plowshares, Indigos, Galops and most other so called "endangereds" would be common by now! "

Now I have heard it all! Bruce what are you thinking? By saying "SO CALLED ENDANGEREDS" are you implying that the species that are endangered are actually not endangered? Do you know something that the scientific community does not? I am really curious about what you are saying here? I really get tired of people that think by obtaining rare endangered reptiles they are somehow saving the species. That is just ridicules! If you want to save any species, then do what you can to protect its environment. Also, just incase you are wondering, paying some importer to pay some exporter to pay a bunch of natives to strip habitat of every reptile they can find by any means possible, is NOT conservation. It is NOT protecting the environment, and it is NOT saving the species. However, It IS taking advantage of the poverty that many people experience in third world countries by offering them mere pennies to go out and collect as many reptiles as they can, often using methods that involve habitat destruction, all for the sake of greed. People should really think about the importation process a little more. When they start to delude themselves into thinking they are saving the species by bringing specimens out of the wild into their homes, then I would suggest they take a look at the number of wild collected animals that die before they are even sent into this country. Then they should take another look at the number that die once they are in the hands of the importers. After that, take a look at the number that die from the time of collection to up until 6 months after they make it here. For some species the death rate is close to 100%, others do not have it quite so bad. Another thought to consider is that when these imports are smuggled imports, you should realize that they are forced to endure even more horrible conditions than the already bad conditions that legally imported animals have to suffer. Is this conservation? I think NOT!
 
And so Tom taught his disciples:

"CONSERVATION THROUGH COMMERCIALIZATION"

Now they will spread the gospel to the world. Bruce 3:16 :bleep:
 
Some good points have been made... I've known Tom since the days he and I were still field collecting Fla kings for the old time dealers, before he opened his business. Mid 70's. I've both purchased and sold specimens with him many times over the years. We've had our ups and downs but, nothing serious. We always worked it out. I don't know why he made the decisions he did to violate the laws but, he did. So have many other people still in business!! However, I can say that many of these other people have served their time and are doing a thriving LEGAL business now. At this point i'm not going into detail as to why I believe this happens to some people in the business. It would take up too much room. I don't agree with everything that Tommy did however, I do respect him for his pioneering efforts and knowledge. Hopefully, he will be an example as to "what not to do" so to speak. Personally, I still hope he'll get back into the business and do it right this time. Make up for what has happened. By the way I remember old man Thompson, and many others... It's a shame. Also, I have about 400 lists from the 70's and up. If anyone decides to have an exhibit i'd be glad to help. By no means should we forget what Tommy did. However, we should give him respect for his contributions to the herpetological community at large...
 
Well Bruce, up until now I have disagreed just about everything you have said. However, that little mooning smiley face convinced me to see your logic. I guess you just can't argue with a mooning smiley face. "CONSERVATION THROUGH COMMERCIALIZATION" What a joke.
 
Earl H. Turner said:
I talked w/Don this afternoon, he has never posted anything about anyone !! He doesn't have nor does he know how to operate a computer....Sounds like the sick BASTA*D is once again playing games....he is in for some real surprises this hunting season....many collectors are making a special trip to meet Bad As@ Bob and I understand that it is not for a social get together...oh well, he earned it and deserves it ----I really believe he is going to receive many "blessings"....I haven't hunted in years but sure plan to do so this year----It is going to be a crowd pleasing season---yes sir, with ol Hung Foo Bobbie...99th degree in bullsh%t. :raspberry :raspberry ... Randall, Don said nothing about Tommy--hell, he doesn't even know him ! Take care, Earl T.

With the above in mind, "*Don Williams* aka Bob Sloan" has left the building in this incarnation....
 
For what this worth, Im Just wondering if this post was started "Because Tom is planning a come back ? I personally hope so. Ya I know he did this or that and went to jail. He did his time he paid his crime I for one feel that everybody makes mistakes some Big some small ...Tom from what I hear is a very Knowlegeable person and has awsome looking snakes
 
Clearwater_Reptiles said:
.Tom from what I hear is a very Knowlegeable person and has awsome looking snakes

Back in the 60-70's when it was pretty much legal to field collect, these people from the early days got in on the ground floor, they then got additional contacts via the importers. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just making reference to that quote. I think that is one of the major problems in this industry, as long as somebody can get an awesome looking, or rare snake, or cheap snake, they don't care where or who it came from. Look at all the multiple topics, and multiple threads with 100's of pages, the same peopel continually able to rip people off.

Don't get me wrong, Tom has paid his debt to society and if he gets back into the field, more power to him, I hope he proves himself, and puts that knowledge, and his connections to good use. What I don't agree with is everybody waiting to line up, and kiss his snakes, before he has even attempted to prove himself. All just because he had awesome snakes or rare snakes, that he probably paid somebody $3 for WC.
JMHO

John
 
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