Tom Crutchfield: Greatest Reptile Dealer of All Time?

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I'm curious Bruce...

is there some specific reason for this post at this time? He has been an exhibitor at several Florida shows over the last three years or so and I have seen him in Daytona for, I believe, the last three years. Why the sudden, "out of the blue", admission of adoration announcement?

 

[brucestephenson]

There is no hidden agenda. I have always thought about starting this thread,
since there has not been a similar one where we could discuss Tom to my knowledge. I felt that with the cold weather (even here in Florida), and the fact that this is first time in a good portion of a year that I have had time off from work, that this would be an ideal time to make some coffee and enjoy.

I have been good friends with Tom for years and think that he is THE GREATEST. Thanks!

 

[pch101]

I keep hearing people refer to Tom's illegal activities as mistakes. This is an understatement to say the least. Let me give a few examples of actual mistakes. A mistake is when you sell your stocks just before they go up in value, or when you marry the wrong girl or guy, or when you buy tickets to a really bad movie, Or when you leave your wallet on top of your car and then drive home, or when you do business with a guy like Tom Crutchfield. These are mistakes. What Tom did was illegal, and he knew it. He smuggled rare endangered species with total disregard for the law, because he thought he could get away with it. His mistake was getting caught, and I do not fault him that. I fault him for his disregard for the laws that are there to protect the wildlife that we are all supposed to care about.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Don't get me wrong, Tom has paid his debt to society and if he gets back into the field, more power to him, I hope he proves himself, and puts that knowledge, and his connections to good use. What I don't agree with is everybody waiting to line up, and kiss his snakes, before he has even attempted to prove himself. All just because he had awesome snakes or rare snakes, that he probably paid somebody $3 for WC.
JMHO
John

I understand what your saying but just because he's not post on the boi doesnt mean he isnt out there in the real world making his ammends and proving himself that way. "Fact" he got caught smuggling and yes there are laws drawn up in one room while in the other room they are planning roads to go through all these endagered species homes... dont get me wrong I dont condone what he has done but it happened .trust me Im not in the line to kiss his snakes.... I just said he has awsome snakes and the one I got isnt no 3 $ wc at least I hope not.....

 

[lanceheads]

First of all, this thread wasn't about Tom's guilt or innocence (originally)
Second, Tom didn't smuggle the animals into the U.S., he bought smuggled animals.
Thirdly, he plead guilty. His exact quote was, "I'm guilty because I'm guilty"
That was his plea to the judge presiding over his trial.
He admitted his mistakes and paid his debt to society, (prison time).
I believe we should move forward and remember the positive things he did for this hobby.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

He admitted his mistakes and paid his debt to society, (prison time).
I believe we should move forward and remember the positive things he did for this hobby.

I agree ..

 

[brucestephenson]

Yes, Tom has been at the Tampa (Tony Cueto) Show with a table and his great slideshow, "Conservation through Commercialization" every year for a few years now. He had some awesome rare items on his table last time, which I did drool over. He seems to be getting better every time.

 

[turtlepimp]

Guys,I just wanted to chime in about how interesting this thread is,the nostalgia of it all.

As a long time herper,I have kept turtles all my life,but have gotten big into buying from wholesalers the last few years.I deal with a few Florida wholesalers,and they all know Tommy Crutchfield.I guess they should.But when most of you guys were looking at or buying the first albino burms,the first Aldabra Torts,and all that stuff,I was building racecars and watching Nascar.

So as it would seem in 1998,I started getting back into more exotic type turtles.For never meeting Tom,he sure taught me alot.You see,for the young guys who play on the internet,you get access to some real stupid Stuff.One ad on Kingsnake might get you a response from a guy in Hong Kong offering you Injun Star torts for $80 bucks shipped to your door.Well,not your door,your neighbors door,so make sure they arent home when the package arrives.Forget CITES,you can sell these guys for $350 each.Whoo Hoo.(for the record,those emails were forwarded to the FBI)

Tommy taught us young guys that there are hundreds of animals that are perfectly legal,why jeapordize your freedom over either an animal you like,or the dollar that animal might bring in.He also stood for the idea that an animals conservation status might just be better served by what that animal might actually sell for as a CB offspring.

I never even met Tom until the October Tampa show.I saw him at the Daytona show in August,but I wasn't quite sure how to approach this guy.What would I say to him?Ask him about his smuggling days?I knew little about that short of what the grapevine had to say.It said that Tom was offered illegal animals and he took the bait.Fair enough,someone had to show us kids what would happen.

So from the outside looking in,Tom seems like a decent guy,definately has forgotten more about herps than most of us will ever know,and will forever be the guy who took a bullet in a federal smuggling sting.

I would like to join that club,I just hope it is not to exclusive.

 

[reptiledealer]

tom story

so am i correct in stating that tom is no longer selling animals but is in the usa and does still do shows with slidehows and what not or what is the exact story. i am a young new person to the trade well last 6 years so fairly new but i whould love to see some old priclists im very into the historical old list from him or anyone else. anyone who has list from long ago wholesalers with reptiles but especially mammals im very intrested in seing i will pay to ship and pay for the list im just fascinated by theme thanks chris

 

[John Apple]

Wow the collective memory is short and I wonder why Bruce you would choose to post this now. When did you buy from Tom? 10 years ago? Tom is one of the most notorious hustlers and criminals of the herp biz. He not only committed a pile of crimes but fled the country to avoid dealing with them. He sold to so many people back in the day, animals that were sick, wrong sex ratios, even shipped people animals that were dead prior to shipping. He lied like crazy about everything having to do with the animals he sold. I avoided Tom for the most part as he did a major number on two good friends of mine in separate deals that were years apart. Did Tom get some neat stuff? Sure he did. He imported tons of stuff and bought tons of stuff from collectors and breeders. Did Tom sell junk? Sure he did. Did Tom misrepresent animals? Sure he did. I think after a bunch of years of Tom being forced out of the animal business by the government and then his voluntary absence since, you have lost site of what Tom really was like as a herp dealer. He did lose a bunch of weight though.

Ditto that
I met Tom many years ago even frequented his store on the east coast [Florida]...Listened to his ramblings and was unimpressed.
Any animals I received were picked by me or my friend Dale Marantz so they were good..saw a lot of bad in there though.

I remember when he went out of business and I collected all kinds of loose animals around his building.

 

[evansnakes]

Well I posted a reply last night and for some reason it did not go up. So I will do it again.

Some clarifications:

Randal, thanks very much and I do understand what you saying and where you are coming from. I am also sure that when I put two crimes and two people in one sentence you knew who I was attributing to what. I am sorry that others were not clear. Tom was not convicted of smuggling as the animals were in the USA.

Jon, say whatever you will about intentions but they are meaningless as the animals all ended up dead due to Tom's greed.

Bruce, oh confused Bruce where to start with you? 1) Tom did not "come back" to the USA. Tom fled the country to avoid capture and prosection. Tom fled to a country that he thought would not extradite him back to the USA. Tom spent tons of money trying to avoid coming back to the USA and went to court many times. In the end the US government brought Tom back to the USA against his will. At that point he pled guilty. What else would he do? Say "I am not guilty! I fled the country and fought extradition because I am innocent!" I'm sure a judge would buy that one. Bruce, many of things that you have said here are just plain stupid to say in a public forum. I can only assume that you posted them knowing and wanting an argument.

John Apple, you are as usual, right on. Most of the people who support Tom are guys that lived in Florida and saw the animals before they bought them or they are his friends and got better treatment. If Tom shipped you stuff and you were not a pal, you got junk.

The reality is that people who keep herps as a hobby love animals. Often when they turn it into a business they lose that love as everything becomes work and a chore. Then it is all about the money. Tom was all about the money. It bothers me to hear people say great things about guys like Tom because of our present situation. I no longer keep native, endangered, protected, threatened or indigenous animals as I have seen enough of what is happening today and want no part of the government following me, raiding my house, seizing my animals or harassing me. If not for the lack of morals and ethics of the people in this business who came before me, who put greed and profit ahead of the welfare of animals and the breaking of laws, maybe I could do what I please. But now those choices have been made for me and the options are not even there for me. That really bothers me as I for one can only do what I do because I do love these animals. Every time a Tom or a Hank chooses to break the law for profit the government tightens the noose on us all. This industry has long had a bad name and reputation for being shady and illegal. That is directly due to the actions and choices of people like Tom and Hank.

 

[brucestephenson]

Last time I checked this was the land of the free and the home of the brave. I refuse to cower in my cellar afraid of what may happen as I enjoy my hobby. Tom Jefferson and Tom Crutchfield have taught me this. Freedom belongs to those brave enough to fight for it; those with balls of iron who try to change the laws toward more freedom. The chickens will forever be vassals of the government begging for a few crumbs of liberty.

 

[lanceheads]

Evan

You made a very good point!
Something for all of us to ponder.

 

[snakegetters]

This is the main point of the Crutchfield Fan Club: We should be able to obtain founder stock of any reptile we want for breeding for the hobby and trade without interstate permits. Fijis, Radiateds, Plowshares, Indigos, Galops and most other so called "endangereds" would be common by now! George Bush - Please change the laws before it's too late for us breeders to save them!!!!!!!!

That is an excellent idea in theory and would work very well under ideal conditions. The reptile pet industry is hardly the ideal condition for species conservation. Quite the opposite.

What happens to these animals as a species, after years of very successful herpetoculture in the private sector? Why, lovely things, if you are thinking from the point of view of a pet owner. You have sandfire dragons and leucistic dragons and double het for purple polka dotted dragons, etc etc. You have albinos and hybrids and other pet animals that are a lot of fun to keep and breed. What you really no longer have are anything resembling the original locality genetics of the original wild animal. You certainly don't have anything that can or should ever be released back into the wild.

I am sorry, but that is not conservation. I am as guilty of "breeding for pretty" as anyone else, but I am fully aware that what I am doing is a selfish thing. I don't pretend that breeding for pretty animals has anything to do with species conservation, because it doesn't.

 

[WebSlave]

John Apple, you are as usual, right on. Most of the people who support Tom are guys that lived in Florida and saw the animals before they bought them or they are his friends and got better treatment. If Tom shipped you stuff and you were not a pal, you got junk.

Sorry, but I just disagree. Tom was in business for far too long for that statement to be true. He has sold far too many animals to far too many people for you to claim point blank what you are saying. Personally, I was never one of Tom's "pals" and I am sure that is not the case today either. He was a seller, and I was a buyer. I lived in Maryland at the time and had a few shipments sent to me from him. In one case in particular I got a half dozen or so Honduran Milks from him. Each bag I opened up contained an absolute living gem of an animal. When I placed that order with him, he said I would definitely like the animals he would ship to me, and that was certainly no exaggeration.

I am not defending Tom Crutchfield. What I am doing is stating my experiences in dealing with him, and disputing generally broad sweeping statements with my experiences that appear at odds with those statements. I am defending the facts that I have seen personally.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Bruce.... you have to be kidding!

Last time I checked this was the land of the free and the home of the brave. I refuse to cower in my cellar afraid of what may happen as I enjoy my hobby. Tom Jefferson and Tom Crutchfield have taught me this. Freedom belongs to those brave enough to fight for it; those with balls of iron who try to change the laws toward more freedom. The chickens will forever be vassals of the government begging for a few crumbs of liberty.

I can't quite decide if you are going for laughs or actually believe the drivel you are spouting. I have met Tom a few times and, I agree, he is a personable guy and fun to talk to. However, equating his past actions to those of a past President and patriot has to be one of the dumbest things to ever exit a human mouth. I have no problem with Tom personally. His past actions were deplorable, they have been paid for and a second chance is not out of the question in my book. Idolizing him as a shining beacon in the industry is another thing all together. He is a classic example of what NOT to do. Providing that example to those now in the business may very well be his most noteworthy contribution to this hobby we all enjoy.

 

[John Apple]

Rich...Glad ya got great living gems of Hondo's from Tom...I also got good animals from him that I picked. I decided to pick instead of buying site un-seen , this was because of good and bad I have heard way back when.
equal points on both sides...though I never heard anything bad from his aquaintants at that time..I wonder what they say now.


Bruce..freedom is great and it is yours to keep until you break the law then those balls of iron are shackled on your legs

 

[pch101]

Tanith, I am glad to see your post. You hit the nail on the head!

Evan, I agree with you 100%

John, thanks for making me actually laugh today. Your remarks were classic.

Bruce, well, you too have made my day by showing the rest of the people here what kind of nincompoop you really are, and what kind of mentality it takes to be the president of the I Love Tom Crutchfield fan club. Seriously, what are you thinking? Are you actually serious? That being said, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I think that if you want to help Tom, you might consider this to be one of those times where you may want to exercise your constitutional right to remain silent. I really think it would help your cause, and Tom...

 

[pch101]

When I said "John, thanks for making me actually laugh today. Your remarks were classic." I was originally refering to John Schmitt, but, I now have to give props to John Apple also. Your last thought was something to think about. Well said.

 

[evansnakes]

Rich, I think that is really amusing that you equate that fact that Tom was in business as long as he was and sold as many animals as he did to him selling good animals. That is just a pantload. How about guys like Hank Molt and Terry Liley who are still selling today? Explain them please. Tom could sell garbage to may more people back then than he could today and still be in business because there was very little competition. I know people who hated buying from him but he was the only guy that had what they needed. Not true anymore. No monopolies these days. If you want to talk off the record, via email or something, I can give you a list of people that I know Tom screwed. Ask them how great his product was. Just because you got 5 great animals means everything he sold was great? You are from posting facts yourself. Then there are all the other posters here and all the people I have met at shows over the years that have made comments about poor quality. You are going to say that a guy who imports that volume did not sell junk? BS! You are defending him. Anyone who imports gets some bad animals. Would you like to bring some people with import experience into this thread? Do you think they will tell you they get a percenatge of junk in their shipments or that every one of the millions of animals they have brought in was flawless? How about Chris at LA Reptile? She has brought in more animals than anybody else that has ever been in this business I bet. Or maybe Aline or CB Fauna? Your option. Anyone who imports gets bad animals. Most of them are at least somewhat honest and have a b-grade list. Tom never listed an animal as b-grade he sold them all the same. He sent a good friend of mine animals that were dead prior to shipping. He purchased a large number of animals from another friend of mine, sold them and then wanted to pay a lower price than they had agreed upon. Those are examples of Tom's business practices. He has no ethics. That is why he ended up where he did.