Tony Cueto Bad Guy! (reptile shows)

[bpc]

Well folks I hate to do this. Up until 5 days ago I considered Tony a friend and good business man. Then I got the following email:



I am sorry to say I am refunding your money for Tampa. Last year we specifically discussed in a lengthy phone conversation and subsequently I also wrote a 3 page letter pertaining to this same issue.In Orlado I received many complaints about you undercutting everyone, some animals below wholesale. I know in Orlando I had several comments about the number of animals in your tanks. This is not fair to me, the reputation of the show and just as importantly the other vendors. Numerous ones whom have comlained. And trust me, I know peole, say, do many thing with many alterior motives but the volume of complaints and what I personally observed makes me know that the action I am taking is justified. Please do not call attempting me to change my mind, the decission has been make. In a year if you are on a different level as far as reptile trading and interested in attending my shows again, I will be open to discussing the matter.
Sincerely,



So now, for the second time, I have been banned from a show (or in this case many shows) because my prices are to low. Tony at one point responded to vendors complaining about low prices by saying that "price fixing" was illegal in the U.S. But now he has apparently changed his mind and caved into those complaints by other vendors.

Now, he also mentions "to many animals in my tanks" in his reasons for banning me. Funny his show veterinarian had NO, 0, NADA, not a single problem, with ANYTHING I brought to that show!!! The presidents of 4 or 5 FL herpetological societys (including Bill Love) spend several minutes at my table checking out my entries into Tony's contests for best animals. They seem to have had no problem with anything on my table because they awarded me for having the "Best Imported Animal" at the show. Tony personally handed me a $100 dollar bill, shook my hand, and congratulated me on my "beautiful aniamals." Funny, but I would think that if there such a problem with my set-up, someone might have said something right then and there.

Not only did no one say anything to me at the Orlando show, no one said anything to me at the North Carolina show which followed. Where, once again, every animal I bought, save one which had a retained eyecap, passed the vet inspection. Tony and his staff were all smiles. Not a single word mentioned about anything.

Not only did they not say anything at NC, they didn't have a negative word to say the following month at the South Carolina show. Well let me take that back, Tony did walk an employee of his, who was interested in cage I was selling, over and asked if they could GET A DISCOUNT!!! Ghees, I thought my prices were already to low. Further, at the end of the South Carolina show, Tony and I spent several minutes discussing what we both felt were the problems with the number of shows scheduled in FL over the next year. I explained to Tony that the number of shows already scheduled in the Orlando area, coupled with the number of shows scheduled nearby worried me as well. And as a member of the board of the Central FL Herp. Soc., I explained to Tony that if he would be willing to let us do some sort of fundraising auction in conjunction w/ his shows, I would approach the board about cancelling our show to lessen the number of shows out there. Tony was once again "all smiles." Not a single word about me, my business killing prices, my horrible animals, or my "overcrowded cages." I mean gee, if you were considering banning someone from your shows, wouldn't you perhaps mention that to them during this 10 minute conversation. Or maybe, at least mention some of the complaints you'd been getting!?!?! Not a word.

So now 3 weeks before Tampa, after I have spent thousands of dollars getting ready for the show, I get banned from out of nowhere. After I have come on this site and praised Tony and his shows, I get banned. After the CFHS has cancelled it's show, thereby leaving me one less alternative, I get banned. Why? Because other vendors couldn't compete with my prices. Darn, here I was thinking this was America, and that we lived in a free enterprise society. Guess not.

Like I said folks, I don't want to do this. I throughly enjoy Tony's shows and simply wish to be allowed to continue to do them. He mentions that I sell animals "below wholesale," that simply doesn't make sense on the face of it. In order for me to have animals to sell, I must either buy them or breed them, as I do not import anything. If I buy them from a wholesaler how would I sell them "below wholesale." If I breed them myself, why would I go out pay for tables, hire someone to help me do the show, spend 4-5 days packing for, driving to, doing, packing up, driving from, unpacking after a show to get "less than wholesale?" I mean come on!

So folks, as you wander through the Tampa show next weekend, you may notice the prices aren't quite as good as they used to be. At least now you know why.

Sorry Tony, I was only trying to compete.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Brian,

I am sorry to hear you have been banned from the show. One thing though everyone knows that you are selling animals for JP Pets at the shows and even sell them at the same price as JP PETS does on their wholesale price list and you use that as your pricing guide. I am not sure why he would say you are selling them below wholesale unless whoever complained used that phrase in their complaint. I guess I can sort of understand his reasoning with some of the Vendors that might buy their animals from JP only to be undersold by you selling the same animals for what they paid for it to the general public. Just like after the Last Tampa show (or the previous one before it), one vendor came on this board complaining about Tony allowing others to sell animals at wholesale and he was unable to sell his c.b. Ball Pythons because he could not compete with the prices on the fresh imports. Again I am sorry to hear you won't be at the show this time. Hopefully you will still poke your nose in the show and BS with everyone like normal.

 

[bpc]

Rob, I sell animals that come from JP, but I longer do Tony's shows for JP. Tony banned JP from the shows about a year ago. I have been doing the shows as Brian Conley ever since. It has been MY BUSINESS CARD on the table at every show. JP has since decided that he wasn't making enough money from our agreement and I have picked up all the shows as myself. It's really easier that way anyway, more risky for me, but easier in the long run.

Rob, you know me, you've seen my tables. You know that if an animal is imported I label it as such. We may not have the same philosophy when it comes to how long we should keep an import before we sell it, but you know I don't lie about it. I tell people exactly how long I've had something and I even tell them what the drawbacks to purchasing such animals.

Tony ADVERTISES THE SHOW AS "wholesale prices to the public!" Why am I getting banned for doing what he advertised? Yeah, I'll sell animals for $10 which is the wholesale price for one. But, hey I have to buy 25 or 50 or 100 to be able to do that. Anyone can do that. Buy a 100 at $6 a piece and sell them for $10, it's not difficult math.

So, using this reasoning you speak of, next show when he bans you from doing the show because your chameleon prices are to low and your customers can't compete with you. You'll see the logic in that?!?!?

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Brian,

I am not saying I agree with him banning you in the least. If he is advertising the show as "wholesale to the public" then he should have nothing to say about you selling at wholesale. If I were selling animals too low and someone complained I would expect him to inform me of it and go from there. And yes I have seen your tables at just about every show you do and see nothing wrong with your tables. Yes you inform the people of the status of the animals just as you should so I don't see any problems. If a customer purchases an animal at wholesale prices they should be aware of the risk that fall into place with buying at wholesale and buying W/C animals and realize it is not the same as buying at a pet store for the higher normal retail prices. I honestly think that this might all be because of a few vendors complaining that they can't make any money because they can't compete. I hear it all the time online with some of my ads (when I sell at wholesale prices). I get people e-mailing and yelling at me to raise my price because they can't compete with my prices. This is what the business is all about. I sell animals at the show for higher prices than just about everyone there (on certain species) because of my history with acclimating those animals and people will pay it. Yes there are some that will run around looking for whomever will sell at the cheapest price they can get and there is nothing wrong with that at all but there are the people that will pay the higher price because of the animals health, care and appearance. Again I want to stress this, I DON'T AGREE WITH TONY BANNING YOU.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Out of curiosity Brian, what other show did you have a problem with?

 

[bpc]

The other show was a small one that used to take place down south. The owner/operater of that show and I have worked things out. Basically, I told him if they can't make money that's ok because I'll take 2 more tables. He saw my point, and let me back in.

 

[HRoss]

I do not know Brian, nor am I judging him. But, I do hope Tony is attempting to clean up parts of his shows. I live in Tampa and have worked the show in the past. Tony is always top notch on customer (vendor service), but the wild caught mess that goes on there does definately keep the pretty animals (and their breeders) that people wish to see away. Who really wishes to spend money to see the same pieds that Cypress has or the pastel ghost that the Bell's bring; not that I would not love to have either, but 2 distinguished breeders after all this time = C-.

Just my opinion
Howard Ross

 

[ScottsReptiles]

I think its a nice change of pace to see a show coordinator trying to keep prices constant between vendors and keeping a certain level of standards for herps in cages.

I hope more people that run shows can follow this move.... I cannot count the number of times I have seen overcrowded 10 gallon enclosures in shows.

Just because you have standards below the standards of the show does not make Tony a bad guy.

 

[brucestephenson]

PERSONAL APPEAL TO MR. TONY CUETO

Dear Mr. Cueto,
Could you please make a special dispensation to all of us who live in Florida and allow Brian Conley to display at your shows? Mr. Conley did us all a great service by e-mailing the Hillsborough County Commission to argue against the banning of reptiles and exotic pets and posting about it on the BOI. If you see your way to allow him back in, perhaps Brian would be willing to make a Good Guy Post to take back his bad guy post. We have always enjoyed and appreciated all of your wonderful shows and your nice personality.

Sincerely Yours, Bruce Stephenson.

 

[bpc]

Scott, I have no problems with standards. NONE. I am a full time biology teacher, and a board member for the Central FL Herpetological Society. I have a problem with price fixing. ITS ILLEGAL! Every show Tony does (except SC) requires a full vet inspection of the animals before they can be sold. In the past two and a half years I've had the vets ask me to remove less than a dozen animals. I bring well over a thousand to each show. Of the animals I have had to pull, over half have been for bad sheds. Only one of those animals was actually "sick," that was a baby burm that somehow slipped through. By the way the other 99 were just fine.

I understand that many people do not like seeing freshly imported animals up for sale. Sorry, I have no problem with it. I am honest with every single person, about how long the animals have been in, and what they should expect. MANY other vendors, buy the same animals from me before the show, and then tell people absolute bs stories about them. If you've been to one of my tables and asked me a question, you know I'm 100% honest.

Many people are like me and have no problem buying freshly imported animals. This isn't about w.c. vs. c.b., this show allows both. This is about a show promoter banning a vendor because other vendors are complaining that his prices are to low folks! Scott, I understand that many of the other vendors will be very happy not to see me there. I just think it's an unfair practice. I sell everything from from $2 w.c. geckos to $400 surinams. I sell $15 imported amazons and $350 c.b. ones. Do I run to Tony and complain that I can't sell my c.b. red amazon for $350 because Ben Seigal is selling imported red ones for $150? No, I wait for a customer to come along who is looking for c.b. and price is no object.

Scott, further, if Tony or ANYONE have simply come up to me and said, "hey, we think there's to many animals in this tank could you spred them out?" I would have been happy to do so. Nothing I have done warrants this treatment.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I really dont understand,

why a person who is in charge of organizing a show gets involved with hearing complaints about someone who sells merchandize cheaper than someone else. Just as Brian indicated he is buying in larger quantities whether imported or not, and has a right to sell at whatever price he wants. So does everyone else. It appears that Tony for whatever reason, has arbitrarily picked on Brian. Has Tony complained about drygood vendors who are selling "wholesale to the public". Their has to be more to this story than Brian may be aware of.
I had a discussion with Jeff of Kingsnake on this very subject when i was in Orlando. Jeffs response to me was that people have the right to sell at whatever price they feel they want to. He is right! The fact that other vendors who apparently know Brian can vouch for his methods of conducting business at these shows just indicate that alot of pressure is being placed on Tony, and its unfortunate that his shows have to be subjected by outside influences that could be no more than sour grapes from other vendors who have found an avenue to eliminate their competition . Very poor business ethics, and I am sure Brian may only be the tip of the iceberg, as others may follow. JERRY TRESSER

 

[TJEvans]

Since I used to run a small reptile show in PA, I've dealt with some similar complaints from vendors. The one thing I learned from this was that a show coordinator will NEVER please every single vendor that comes to the show.

Everything in this business works on supply and demand. Some vendors would sell ONLY captive born designer chams, then get upset at ME when they don't sell anything all day. Perhaps, their target market is just too limited. Our show was venomous included, and anybody that's kept or sold venomous snakes, knows that the market for them is rather exclusive, or should be anyway. So if a guy comes in with nothing BUT venomous snakes, and nobody wants to buy them, why is it the show's fault?

What I see that probably happened to Tony is that he had a significant number of vendors say that if Brian were to continue going to the show and selling his animals for less than they could, that they wouldn't go anymore. I can understand their ppoint of view in that if their not going ot make any money, why should they be there.

Adversely, though, Brian has every right to charge whatever it is that he wants for his stock. If he can get away with selling things for less money, and is honest (which I don't doubt at this point) about the origins, then by all means he should.

Running a show is not easy though. I felt obligated to our vendors to get PAYING customers through the door. We made money off the table sales and at the door. Frankly, we never had a bad turnout at the door, but I'd estimate that only about 40% of the people paying to get in were actually buying something. This enraged the vendors and they stopped coming to the shows. It's a difficult business to run, and with the frequency of reptile shows all around, it is not something that can be fixed.

I will say that by Tony singling out Brian, he has probably shot himself in the foot in a sense. When people come to the shows now, they are going to have to expect to pay higher prices for the animals they usually got deals on. Eventually, they will stop coming, and go to get their goods elsewhere.

It's a paradoxical situation, you need a lot of vendors to attract a lot of customers, but vendors are only attracted by a heavy paying customer turnout. once the vendors at this show start realizing that people are not showing up due to the lack of competativeness in pricing, they will all be dropping their prices anyway, once again, just to sell SOMETHING.

Thanks
Todd Evans

 

[TonyC]

Brian, you are omitting some important details. The last time I was going to ban you from the show (Reptiles magazine had stopped, refused to accept advertising from your company because of all the compliant they had received), we talked at length then, you assured me from then on you would not be associated with that business, they would be your animals, better quality and you would not be at the show undercutting everyones prices. I gave you a second chance and what do you do, set up un Orlando with overcrowded cages that smelled ( i personally observed two tanks of balls pilled up layers high in the tank), do not follow show regulations (two herp club volunteers noted you did not have wild caught cages identified as such), the show veterinarian expressed concerns about your animals, we agreed your shipment had probably had just landed, animals were not acclimated, and noted your booth to be rechecked throughout the weekend. At the show one of the herp club volunteers was explaining to two kids how to care for ball pythons they purchased from you, three for $12. I was there, I saw the quality of the snakes and what they were sold for. The kids were not from a pet store or distributors buying for resale. They were 1st time consumers that purchased their 1st reptiles at $4, from a cage that was not identified as wild caught, animals were pilled up in, probably not acclimated, and no instuctions on how to care for the animals given to a new hobbyist. What do you think the chances of survival for those animals are? Aftere the show I received 7 complaints about you. More complaints in one show than I have ever received about any vendor that has been with us these past 7 years. Your comment about you winning best import of show award does not justify, excuse you of compliance and quality issues pertaining to the rest of your animals. As far as your claim that I regulate prices, I do not, would not, that is an illegal, price fixing. However, just like a developer can choose if they want to rent to a Dollar store to go into a strip mall next to Macys, I can choose which vendors I want and do not want at my show. A vendor with good quality animals that goes by my rules and gives the show a good image or a vendor with cages stacked high with imports, not labeled, dirty, not acclimated that does not follow show regulations and there has been numeous complaints loged about in the past.
Kevin processed your application, I did not and with all the preparation going on for the show you slipped in. If you noticed, I was at your booth numerous times observing your animals and so was the vet in Raleigh. After the last Carolina show I again received complaints. And you call me the bad guy for banning you?Reptiles magazine did not want any association with an importer of this caliber, I do not either, if that makes me the bad guy, then so be it. I tried to be fair, warm you last time around, had your asuance things would improves and they did not. Like you said, there are plenty of shows that just want the revenue from your booth rental and do not care about the quality. They are even giving tables away for practically free and you will not have to deal with standards and quality measures there so what is the problem?

Tony Cueto
Show director
Florida International Reptile Show

 

[bpc]

Tony, there are so many problems with that response I'm not sure where to start. So I'll pick them apart one at a time.

refused to accept advertising from your company because of all the compliant they had received),

I have NEVER had/tried to have an ad in Reptiles Magazine. JPPETS the company that originally hired me to do your shows may have, I have no idea.

you assured me from then on you would not be associated with that business, they would be your animals

Since you banned JP, I have paid for and done the shows myself. Check the paypal receipts Tony, that card is mine. Now, if you also ment that wasn't allowed to buy animals from JP, well then I think that's a topic for a whole other thread. Because not only do I buy from him, but so do at least half of the other vendors in your shows.

better quality and you would not be at the show undercutting everyones prices

Tony, the quality of my animals has passed YOUR vet inspection at every show, NOT ONCE have you, your staff, your vet, or any of your volunteers questioned me about the quality of the animals displayed during show hours. NOT ONCE. As I said before I have no problem w/ standards, I just need to know what the standards are. I price my animals based on what I pay for them, not based on what others are selling them for. I price my c.b. balls starting at $35, Ben prices his at $20-25. If I was undercutting everyone why wouldn't I price them lower? A c.b. ball and a freshly imported one are not the same animal, as such, I price the imported ones much cheaper.

set up un Orlando with overcrowded cages that smelled ( i personally observed two tanks of balls pilled up layers high in the tank), do not follow show regulations (two herp club volunteers noted you did not have wild caught cages identified as such), the show veterinarian expressed concerns about your animals

Tony, that is just bs and you know it. If my table and my animals were that bad:
Why did the vet pass every animal through the inspection?

Why did the herp club presidents not only not say anything bad to me, but then also award me as having the Best Wild Caught Animal at the show?

If you saw all these smelly mistreated ball pythons, why would you walk by the cage, hand me $100, shake my hand, and congratulate me on my "beautiful animals," Tony? Why? Because you know that is BS!!! Further, I have ALWAYS labeled my animals as wild caught when they were such. I was doing that before you made everyone else do so. But, I also usually have both w.c. and c.b. balls available, so perhaps your volunteers were looking at the c.b. born ones and not the wild caught.

for ball pythons they purchased from you, three for $12.

Tony, I sold exactly 7 ball pythons at Orlando, the cheapest I sold one for was $10. I was complaining along with the other vendors about the lack of ball python sales, and now I know why. I DID NOT sell a ball python for $4, I swear that on my life! So you have me confused/lumped in with someone else.

received 7 complaints about you. More complaints in one show than I have ever received about any vendor that has been with us these past 7 years

Fine, what were they? You certainly never told me about them! My business card is on the table. I live and work in the area. Why didn't I get those complaints? Why didn't you simply give those people my phone number as I asked you to do when you complained that customers had no way to get ahold of JP. I can respond to specific complaints, I can not respond to something I did not do, like selling a ball for $4! Further, if you had all these complaints, why wait?!?! I did 2 of your shows after Orlando! We spent several minutes together discussing stuff, Tony. Are you that spineless that you can't talk to me face to face about a complaint?

I was at your booth numerous times observing your animals and so was the vet in Raleigh

And said nothing! Your vet passed all my animals once again! Again are you that spineless, or was there really nothing to complain about Tony?

More later.

 

[Jovcham]

......Brian what all do you sell at the shows? I live in orlando, I attended the orlando show, and was planning on attending the tampa show as well.
......Tony please update the show's site with the vendors for this year.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Hey Tony, since when

does Reptile Magazines ban advertisers? Its one thing if your not paying your ad fee, but give me a break, these people could not care less who you are if your willing to pay for advertising. People have a right to purchase whatever they want at the best price possible. If items are wild caught, the risk becomes greater and the price becomes less. Its simple, and apparently you allow wild caught herps to be in your show, so what did you expect when other vendors complained. You indicated that their were several complaints, what were they. It just seems to me, that Brian is being a whipping boy for no apparent reason. Had he been stealing, or using fowl language at customers or fighting , I could understand your concern, but vendor or even customer complaints about overcrowding, can be rectified very easily without banishment. Were their any complaints from the vet? From what Brian indicated , their were none! So none of this makes any sense that requires banishment. JERRY TRESSER

 

[Jovcham]

I forgot to add to my post. I have pictures of MANY vendors from orlando show and I have a great memory. if you could let me know your company name or where your booth was located I can look through my pictures and give my oppinion of wether it smelled, looked overcrouded, exc...

 

[ScottsReptiles]

Scott, I have no problems with standards. NONE. I am a full time biology teacher, and a board member for the Central FL Herpetological Society. I have a problem with price fixing. ITS ILLEGAL! Every show Tony does (except SC) requires a full vet inspection of the animals before they can be sold. In the past two and a half years I've had the vets ask me to remove less than a dozen animals. I bring well over a thousand to each show. Of the animals I have had to pull, over half have been for bad sheds. Only one of those animals was actually "sick," that was a baby burm that somehow slipped through. By the way the other 99 were just fine.

so...you buy your animals from JP and have only had 1 sick baby burm.. when you bring over 1000 to each show. My luck was never that good with JP. 10 out of every 50 of what I bought from JP would be loaded with parasites... and not make it through 2 to 3 days after arrival.. so, let me get this correct, you vet check over 1000 animals prior to each show. While I feel that this is an immpossible daunting task, it would make your costs almost imaginable. My vet charges me the bare minimum.. if I did that.. I would have to sell a normal baby leo for 60 bucks. But.. if you say you vet check each herp that you bring in.. I am sure you also give those vet records to each customer. It would nice if your customers can post copies of that vet record. It would only seem logical to me if you take the time to take each herp to the vet, you would give that record to the customer.

I understand that many people do not like seeing freshly imported animals up for sale. Sorry, I have no problem with it. I am honest with every single person, about how long the animals have been in, and what they should expect. MANY other vendors, buy the same animals from me before the show, and then tell people absolute bs stories about them. If you've been to one of my tables and asked me a question, you know I'm 100% honest.

if you are 100% honest, please show proof of vet checking each herp.

Scott, I understand that many of the other vendors will be very happy not to see me there. I just think it's an unfair practice. I sell everything from from $2 w.c. geckos to $400 surinams. I sell $15 imported amazons and $350 c.b. ones. Do I run to Tony and complain that I can't sell my c.b. red amazon for $350 because Ben Seigal is selling imported red ones for $150? No, I wait for a customer to come along who is looking for c.b. and price is no object.

Its when you offer a 25 dollar wc for much less then that.. as the charges are... thats unfair trade practices.

 

[Clay Davenport]

There's no proof to show Scott, Brian never claimed he took them all to the vet to be checked. What he said several times was

Tony, the quality of my animals has passed YOUR vet inspection at every show,

The vet is at the show, provided by Tony to check all animals and to prevent any found to be sick or otherwise displaying problems from being sold.

 

[bpc]

Scott, it's not MY vet, IT'S TONY'S!!!!!!! All animals sold at his shows must be vet inspected before they can be sold. He chooses and hires the vets! HIS RULE, which I follow.

I hand pick, every single animal I get from JP. That makes a big difference. I don't only buy from him, but I would say he is my number 1 supplier by a large margin. I have been buying from JP for 9 or 10 years now, so I know exactly what to look for. Is every animal he has top notch? No, but most are of good quality. The Surinam Redtail that won Tony's contest was one I purchased from JP just 2 weeks prior to the show. And frankily, there was one that had a small tick bite on it's back that was a little prettier, but that sold before the contest.

Its when you offer a 25 dollar wc for much less then that.. as the charges are... thats unfair trade practices

I'm not sure I understand this statement, but I think you are saying I would pay $25 for an animal and then sell it for less than that??? If that's what you're saying then that is absolutely false. I'm not at the shows to lose money. Now, I will sell animals very close to cost in some cases. Let's say marbled geckos. If it's 4:30 Sunday afternoon and someone offers me $2 a piece. I know I payed $1.75, guess what. They are going home with some geckos. I would rather make very little, than to take home 15 marbled geckos. But, I don't think that is wrong.

To respond to the other post, I sell a little bit of everything. I breed corns, kings, milks, gophers, and hopefully next year pines. I also breed boas and pythons. I try to stick to "pet store" type animals because they tend to be the easiest to sell. I will buy for resale, pretty much any animal I think will be successful BOTH for me and for my customers. There is no point in selling sick animals. There is no point in lying to customers. Either they are comfortable w/ imports or they aren't. I usually have both w.c. and c.b. of the most popular animals available so I have no reason to lie. If price is the most important consideration, they can get a $10-15 w.c. ball python. If they only want top quality c.b. they start at $35 and go up. I just try to cover all the bases.