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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Cat_72 said:
Bob, their address would be [email protected]. No "S" on the end of "exotic". I know this only because I did it myself.... :ack2: If you add the "S", it bounces back.
Click to expand...

Thanks Cat, Boy do I feel Stupid. :notallthe
Fortunately, I typed better last Saturday, and got it to the right address. At least I know that they aren't bouncing my emails. Just emailed TSE and Chris again asking for a full refund under their Health Guarantee.
 
LOL, I made sure and added the fact that I did it as well so you'd know you weren't the only one. I guess since the business name is "top Shelf Exotics", one automatically uses that as the email addy. At least that's MY excuse. ;)
 
Lucille, Fla. has very similar laws

governing payments from small claims courts as well. It is not worth it if its an out of state lawsuit. The answer is to get 3 creditors, find an attorney in the state TSE is operating in , and where Chris resides, and force Chris into personal bankruptcy. Then you will see some action. I have mentioned before, it appears that he is personally liable for his business and that includes his employees. He cannot wash his hands and assume no responsibility because of an illness. So depending on the seriousness of the funds that have been lost, this is the best way to approach a more beneficial result for creditors. I hope it does not come to that, and in my previous post I gave TSE some good advise on returning funds, and closing down as opposed to ignoring emails, etc.
 
Jerry,

Good points.

I can't help, seeing how Chris' 'Good Guy' rating is still overwhelmingly in his favor, hoping that somehow he will pull together enough strength to oversee the proper disposition of his obligations. I feel that he is too ill to do it himself, but there are so many outstanding reptile businessmen right here on Fauna that he could ask to step up and be temporary managers of his business.
The bottom line is that those who made a deal with TSE deserve either refunds or the 'top shelf' quality critters they expected, and deserve it to be done in a timely manner.
 
Lucille,

Its easier to give back the money, and maintain the good faith of the business name as well as his own. Secondly, I am a bit concerned about providing papers and actual proof when it comes to color morphs and breeding , etc.

I am not knowledgeable about the genetic aspect of the sales, but if it continues to plague TSE well after the sale, then I have some very strong reservations about most if not all the transactions based on this business of morphs, hets, etc. Allot of people are selling and not following through, and unless you buy from the best of the best, I would never consider a third rate operation like TSE when they will not allow their guarantee to be transferred if the snake is sold. That basically negates the value if the purchase is based on an investment. This is a very disturbing aspect of their TOS, and i find it an unhealthy part of their business operation. I cannot understand why their position has to be that way if they are the breeder of fact. You would think just the opposite, and what better advertisment could you provide.
 
My question is: Did customers know ahead of time that the guarantee was not transferable? Did they found out after the fact? Is it posted on their website? That is a detail that would effect my purchase from anywhere. So right now everyone that has hets from TSE will have to sell them with no guarantee? All I can say is WOW.
 
I wondered the same thing Bill. Here's all that I found on the site

"" UNMATCHED GENETICS GUARANTEE:

All 100% Heterozygous specimens are guaranteed. Our possible heterozygous specimens are ALSO guaranteed: If you acquire 5 or more possible heterozygous specimens from us we are completely confident you will prove one. So confident in fact we are willing to purchase them back at 125% their original value if you are unable to prove one after two attemptsseasons. Regardless if it was a cash sale or trade! You will not find a better guarantee than ours!""


I may have missed something ??? Randy
 
Oh forgot this part..... "All specimens are accompanied by individually signed photographic documents stating genetics. Genetics as well as live arrival is 100% Guaranteed.

Randy
 
Rebel Dragons said:
The quote above from one of TSE's responses via Pat & Glenn to Bob E gives me the impression his life is in jeopardy. I can understand him not wanting to deal with any of this if his condition is indeed as bad as Pat and Glenn imply.

I too hope he walks away from whatever is going on healthy and happy. Although it apprears he may be walking back into a business that is on life support.
Click to expand...

I guess I will put a post in here, since I have been "monitoring" this thread. I will say I have talked to chris in depth about his condition in the past, don't know if it was the truth as it was just an online IM conversation, but I believed him then, and do now. If your above quote is wrong, it isn't very far off. from what I understood then, Chris' did or does in fact have a life threatening illness.
I really don't know what to say about the rest of this thread, other than it is too bad that this is happening. Chris is one of the good guys, I guess my only advice to chris would be that it is probably past time to refund money and go on your way, I can certainly understand his perceived lack of concern for what is going on based on what I was told. I do not wish to discuss that here, as I was told in confidence.
I truely hope everyone gets their stuff, I have offered chris to help as much as I can.
TOM
 
Zoo Supply said:
I guess my only advice to chris would be that it is probably past time to refund money and go on your way, I can certainly understand his perceived lack of concern for what is going on based on what I was told. I do not wish to discuss that here, as I was told in confidence.
I truely hope everyone gets their stuff, I have offered chris to help as much as I can.
TOM
Click to expand...

I think it might be helpful to separate Chris the person from TSE the business. If he is not able to be concerned, we can wish him well, and hope he recovers.

However, the well wishes to Chris the person should not stand in the way of those who have outstanding or unsatisfactory orders from doing their best to receive their money back. If action needs to be taken because those now at the helm are not fulfilling their responsibilities, it should be taken actively and quickly.

Tom, you sound like a nice person and I wish he taken you up on your offer of help. But since he has not, that does not relieve the company of the responsibility of giving back money they have taken from customers if they cannot fulfill quality orders in a timely manner.
 
yeah my post wasn't meant try to cloud the issues at all, I actually didn't read through all the posts after the one I quoted when I did that. Just wanted to address that issue.
business is business...plain and simple. The two do interact, as well as influence each other. unfortunately some times.....but thats life...hopefully this will all get rectified somehow.
TOM
 
this should be a very good lesson

for people who are presently in business or thinking about going into the Herp business. Incorporate.............that will limit the liabililty. We now have a situation where the owner is 100% personally liable for any monies due, any incorrect sales or any problems arising out of TSE. Legally Chris and TSE are synonomyous. And let me tell you, this is not an envious position to be in. Granted, some members here are sympathetic to Chris's illness, but their may be many who want their money back and dont want to be creditors, or even get involved in waiting for something to happen that will shut the doors..............for good!

One other note, everytime their is a chargeback related to Paypal, it would not surprise me that Paypal would suspend the TSE account based on possible fraud violations. That only relates to monies that have been given in advance, with no possible payback to the buyer.
 
Zoo Supply said:
If your above quote is wrong, it isn't very far off. from what I understood then, Chris' did or does in fact have a life threatening illness.
TOM
Click to expand...


I had heard the same thing Tom about Chris' condition, about his condition being life threatening and the procedure/procedures that he still has to have done having a moderate/high fatality rate, after which he would need meds and monitoring for life, so i believe when he said he didnt know if he would come back he meant he may not be able to come back. But i heard this through a third party not Chris himself.
 
I will say I have talked to chris in depth about his condition in the past, don't know if it was the truth as it was just an online IM conversation,
Click to expand...
??Can you elaborate at all? Cancer? accident? Has anyone visited Chris at his home? Sent him flowers? offered to help him clean cages, anything? Has anyone of the members here been to Chris's facility at all?...? If Chris lived anywhere near me, I would be over there to help out for sure.
 
Casey, I am sure that you mean it:

If Chris lived anywhere near me, I would be over there to help out for sure.
Click to expand...

And it is a very noble position to take. I would like to point out a couple of concerns that I would have did I live close enough such that distance was not an issue:

1) Chris had indicated that he has pretty much washed his hands of what is going on there, as he is physically unable to be there, and it would seem, mentally unable to influence it such that it runs in a respectable manner. Its the latter part of this concern that does not inspire the "good samaritan" in me.

2) Those who are running the show don't seem too worried about customers or standards anymore, and the current TSE does not exude the image of a business where those running it are doing the best with what they got.

All that said, if I were Chris' friend, and had the ability to spend some time there, I believe we would have discussed the fall off in attitudes and standards up there early on, regardless of the excuses for it, as that seems to be what is broken. But I'm not his friend.
 
ravensgait said:
Lucille how can you seperate Chris from the business?? He is the business. Randy
Click to expand...

I am saying from my heart, that as bad as the business gets, and I know people will likely have a tough time getting their money because of the present management; and as rambunctious as Chris has been in the past,
I am here hoping and praying for the best for him, that he is as comfortable as possible, and that he makes it through these terrible health issues people are talking about.
At some point we need to look at people as people, and love them as such, and feel and send our best wishes their way. That's what I meant.
 
ravensgait said:
Lucille how can you seperate Chris from the business?? He is the business. Randy
Click to expand...

He said himself he has "nothing to do with it".....and he is not the business, the CUSTOMERS are the business. Without them, there is no business.
 
I am 450 miles away from him and TSE or else I would also help out if I were allowed to do so to help them out in any way i could. Working a full time job and a part time job doesn't leave me much time to do much traveling and time off as it is.
I did email him to let him know i would help anyway i could from here but i dont know how i could help from this distance.
Also if it true he is in CCU awaiting for his conditon to improve to get his next procedure he wont be able to answer my emails anyway. It is all speculation at this point until he gets through this and lets everyone know (if he does) what his future plans are and what the specifics of his condition are/were. Only he and his family know for sure exactly what his condition is and he may prefer to keep it that way for personal reasons. We can only wait and see.
 
Cathy didn't I say that ;) "Just take care of your customers "They Are your Business"!!! Randy"
My meaning was that no one other than Chris is legally responsible for TSE.

Lucille I think most everyone who has posted in this thread has wished Chris well ETC ETC some many many times. No reasonable person would feel other wise..Randy
 
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