Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Scott Ashton]

Yea, Scott, I reread it. I took it wrong the first time. But we do have one more that is getting the run around by Chris's TSE. It just is not close to being right. He has waited way too long to get his snakes as well. There is no way they are shipping all of these packages. I would also say. he was not asking for instant pudding. He waited more than enough time to receive his snakes.

No argument here Bobby.

I'm at a loss as to why TSE still has an overwhelmingly favorable Good Guy vote.

 

[varnyard]

Well, I wonder how long that will last? At this rate, it won't be long.

 

[reptilebreeder]

No argument here Bobby.

I'm at a loss as to why TSE still has an overwhelmingly favorable Good Guy vote.

Certainly it isn't because of three of us (last I checked), and that's counting bud merkey (sp?) for crying out loud. I can understand people holding off their votes initially, "benefit of the doubt" and "don't kick someone when they are down" kind of things, but this has gone on to long. People are waiting for four, five, six months and/or receiving sick animals...ridiculous! Then if you write to complain you are sent to the back of the [shipping] line.

"You (people with orders) wait 6 months for your order and be happy about it! or we'll ignore you and ship, or resolve your problem, last" [poetic license quote]

who's "blackmailing" who?
Really, I can even understand some being slow to slap a "bad guy" vote on someone too soon, but why not at least recind the "good guy" vote, and become neutral? I'm at a loss also........

 

[KNOBTAIL]

You may want to consider contacting

Kingsnake with all these complaints as well as Rich. Secondly, which I have said before, if you paid by Paypal, contact them as well.

I have a funny feeling that this business of hets, 100%, morphs, etc is going to blow up in TSE's face. I think allot of people are going to find out that TSE's dealings have been bogus from the getgo. I personally think their is more to this than he (Chris) is letting on.

No one acts this way and expects to get away with it. Sick or not, something is very wrong with this whole situation. Nick, I am sure you and I are on the same track when I say this method of doing business is not normal, and certainly not beneficial for anyone in Chris's position.

Finally, please dont wait any longer if you have a legit. complaint. Start some action, because that is the only way you are going to get some, even if its temporary.............satisfaction. By the way Chris, thanks for the idea of sending me a fruit basket. ...............Save your money.

 

[tejasranger]

Nicolai,You owe me an apology

First Off..I wasnt the one that put her name on a national forum, without her permission or knowledge!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you get the impression that I posted without her knowledge? Is this another (FACT) that you pulled out of your

Here is something for you... Go back and reread this entire thread and find one post I made that said 1) robert was lying 2) the snakes werent sick 3) Robert was a bad guy 4) I knew anything about TSE' situation 5) the hets are really 100% hets 6) I know the condition of the snakes 7) I was taking TSE' side over Roberts

Any 1 of the above will do. Since your so adamant about me defending chris you should be able to copy paste something here that would prove that.

Nicolai,

Sometimes actions speak much louder than words. No matter what you say, you know that you were fishing for something that would make me out a liar. You should focus that attention on Chris. You will get much better results, and it will be easier to prove.

 

[tejasranger]

You should focus that attention on Chris. You will get much better results, and it will be easier to prove.

I was referring to Cris Johnson of TSE, Purveyor of Sick snakes and Worthless Guarantees.

 

[repfriend]

Honestly...I don't see why anyone would go to TSE for Hets.

Going by their webpage, it looks to me they mostly broker, buy/re-sell.

They sell imported adult Ball Pythons, but no babies? However, they DO sell CB babies for $35 and up. HM....

Just what does CB stand for in their case? "Captive born" as in born in captivity but not neccessarily in the States? Does it mean "Captive born and BRED"?

Somehow , I'm beginning to doubt that.

It would also explain why they can't ship all winter long, no matter what the temps...perhaps they are waiting on shipments themselves.

Another red flag ....well the giardia and bellyrot. BIG signs of sickly imports, or babies that were born "CB in Africa".

Then that 43 gr. hatchling they sent out, supposedly feeding and all. My hatchlings were all around 100 gr. out of the egg. Yes, they were large for hatchlings, but still...43 gr. after several meals??? And then it drops dead...

There are so many breeders that are in the spotlight for their morphs. They have many morphs, they are visible at shows, with pictures, they have faultless integrity, why would anyone buy "hets" from someone that has never shown his animals? That isn't "out there" with his morphs? Who's "hets" have never been proven out yet? Who won't ship all winter long no matter what temps?

Who knows, they might be legit, but not only is all this mess throwing red flags all over,but even just going by their website and (non existant) pictures of their morphs and facility...I would certainly go to someone else.

I just get the feel of them being mostly brokers.

All this is in my honest opinion only, I certainly have no "knowledge". These are suspicions based on the facts presented and based on the feel I get from their webpage.

I cannot believe they actually expect people to wait 5 month PLUS and not get upset. And if you get upset, you get pushed back in line. Wow, the arrogance. Usually a serious illness makes people more HUMBLE and wanting to set things straight in their life.

I don't see this here.

Chris took the money. Chris most likely SPENT the money. And now "he's out of the equation" or he wishes to be.

If I was a customer, I would pursue refunds in every avenue open to me, I believe it is against the law in most states to accept money and not deliver in a timely manner.

I would hit them on every front.

It would have been different if Chris or anyone from TSE would have reacted in a different way. But this is ridiculous.

And to everyone that has purchased "hets" ....good luck. If I was you, I would "dig" a bit further to find out just where the animals have come from. Pics of parents perhaps or some type of proof. Yes, you have reasonable doubt now, and deserve it.

 

[nicolai]

Nick, I am sure you and I are on the same track when I say this method of doing business is not normal, and certainly not beneficial for anyone in Chris's position.

Yes, i would agree to that Jerry.

Seems people are going to affect my business as well due to this thread.


>Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 18:42:50
>From: ------------------
>To: "nicholas bonn" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Albino Boas

> Nick, Please cancel our order for the albino boas. We have decided to hold >off on our purchase until things quiet down (fauna). We cannot afford unwanted attention as 50% of our sales ar internet related. This is in no way a reflection on you or your business practices but Tom felt it best to wait. If you want to hold them in case Tom decides to change his mind please do so as we have customers interested in more of them. Please use the monies for the albino boas towards the bill we owe you for the last shipment and we will get you the rest in the "net 30" as always.

>We appreciate your understanding
>Best reguards
>Phillip


------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

I altered the above email to remove thier company name as it wouldnt be fair to throw them into this thread.


Someone want to tell me why this thread should affect anything. Either way It doesnt matter as I felt I was doing what was right. I will just sell them elsewhere. My only problem is i was holding them for 3 weeks waiting for them to pay thier last bill before shipping the next one in which time I could have sold them many times over. I also think they used this thread as a scape goat because they didnt have the money.


Robert, if you feel as though i owe you an oppology than " I oppologize" as i have nothing against you and never had. I wish i had an answer to your situation with TSE but i don't. if we ever do business together i will throw in something extra to show theres no hard feelings anywhere.

Nicolai,

Sometimes actions speak much louder than words. No matter what you say, you know that you were fishing for something that would make me out a liar.

No I wasn't, if i had been i would have asked much different questions then i did. Sure i am friends with Chris and never denied it and went the extra mile for him as would anyone with friends, but I never did anything but try to get all the facts out. Now that everything is out in the open and everyone knows the situation the only thing left to do is wait and see what TSE does from this point on. I wish you the best of luck in a resolution with TSE!
To everyone else(Except Ian Shindler-who serves no purpose here other then amuse himself an make himself the object of ridicule) My apologies if my dialogue on this thread offended you.

 

[ravensgait]

Scott said"" I'm at a loss as to why TSE still has an overwhelmingly favorable Good Guy vote.""
John you asked the same question . I'd imagine that it is what was alluded to earlier in this thread Fear. Afraid that there will be an old fashioned BOI dog pile and they'll be the bottom dog. I'd say that was at least part of the problem. Now you can add Chris's threat to send them into Limbo if they complain. He already has them all in Limbo!! Randy

 

[Casey Hulse]

Simply put I am more concerned with becoming well than to listen to people blame me for transactions I had no part in. Lets make this very simple for you, you probably know more about what is going on than I do. I currently spend between 18 and 20 hours a day in bed. I rarely am up to checking correspondence, and my reputation at this poitn is of little concern as I am uncertain if I will even be returning at this point.

What recourse will TSE's customers have if TSE disappears? What good are their guarantees?
If I were a cynical person, I could surmise that this has been a "well thought out" plan/con from the beginning. Sell a bunch of hets....then fade away before they prove out. Does anyone have any physical information on Chris, like where he lives, his wives name or place of work (I assume he is married and she works and provides medical insurance...).
I bought an adult female het BCI from someone a few yrs. ago, they had a decent rep. and when it did not prove out I tried to contact the individual and found they had declared bankruptcy.
I would not delay in contacting the proper authorities if it were me. This whole thing stinks!
I think if Chris chooses to visit this thread again, he needs to provide the information and assurance his customers need, instead of trying to intimidate and frighten people.

 

[Cat_72]

I'm guessing there's probably a lot more folks holding out for "fear" of getting put on the bottom of the list, or whatever else.

I have another question....if they were supposedly sending out orders in the order they were received, (until they got ticked off and started moving people to the bottom of the pile, anyway) why is it that some people who ordered in January seem to have gotten animals, but we have someone who ordered in NOVEMBER that hasn't????

 

[ravensgait]

Sorry about that Nick really am,,,, but you did choose your fight so to speak and aligned yourself here with Chris. Though it may just be a good excuse for them to get out of the deal...

"""I altered the above email to remove thier company name as it wouldnt be fair to throw them into this thread."""

You put them in this so you should have posted the whole email or none of it... Didn't you say something about Bob not posting the whole email earlier???? Or is this one of those do as I say not as I do , Kind of things. Nick that is one of the real problems people have had with you in this thread- your double standard...Randy

 

[nicolai]

Its not a double standard,There is such a thing as good businss ethics and morals. This is apples and oranges when comparing it with emails in this thread. would you put it in??? Would you permenantly burn a bridge between you and a long time customer??
How would they deserve to have thier name added to this mess? You say its a double standard, i say its a high standard which all people should have, i also noted on the post that i edited it and what i edited for all to see, i didnt try to hide anything.
Lets do what everyone else suggests and get this thread back on what it should be focused on. Roberts and others situation with TSE.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Rob,
Good thing you didn't post any snippets of legal advice you may have from an attorney, lest you end up with a charge on your bill from the attorney for $50 for "15 minutes of providing legal definitions to someone who felt that your two sick snakes were synonymous with sending ill children off to elementary school .... I should have charged you extra for the way it taxed my imagination!" Nick, I am sure you can justify your actions. As you have seen in this thread, many others do not think it was a good idea. That said, I am sorry that someone used anything you have said or done here to cancel an order, as you do not strike me as unethical. But at this point I think the message is that Chris and TSE are ethically damaged goods, and to seek a lower profile regarding them, if not disassociate.
Casey, your argument makes too much sense in how you have connected the dots, and is also the worst-case-scenario for many. One thing that stuck with me from Chris' last long post was that he acknowledged a "threat of blackmail" regarding his business. He did not say "extort". Sometimes the two terms are used interchangeably, but there is a distinction between the two. Extortion is more akin to paying protection money, to keep from being beat-up, have customers intimidated away, etc. Blackmail involves a threatened revelation of past factual event which is embarrassing, illegal, etc., but a still a fact.

 

[kmurphy]

Nicolai, this thread isn't about you, even though at times it may seem as it is. I cannot see how purchasing albinos from you would affect anyone's internet business so there may have been other reasons. IMO your only fault is a way too over zealous support of a friend. I support you for not posting their names because in my opinion it would be off topic.

Back to the topic. In reading some of the past several posts a few are getting too harsh (IMO) when speaking of Chris's illness. Everything lately points to Chris not being involved in the day to day operation of TSE. The ads on kingsnake did not give Chris as the contact person. I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. There is enough to bash TSE for without hitting someone when they may actually be on death's door.

 

[Lucille]

I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. .

It never even crossed my mind to question the subject until I read his last, vindictive post here.

Why would it be that we can discuss a snakes illness all day long but thoughts about just how ill Chris is are taboo?

If Chris is truly ill I wish him the best, but I think he needs to lay off putting people on the bottom of the heap and then talking about it as if this was something to point to with pride.

 

[repfriend]

Back to the topic. In reading some of the past several posts a few are getting too harsh (IMO) when speaking of Chris's illness. Everything lately points to Chris not being involved in the day to day operation of TSE. The ads on kingsnake did not give Chris as the contact person. I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. There is enough to bash TSE for without hitting someone when they may actually be on death's door.

Chris has put HIMSELF into this looked down on situation. He comes here and posts in an arrogant matter, telling everyone tough luck and "threatening" anyone that voices their un-happiness with having to wait even longer.

He told everyone that he won't be bothered with any of this while he's sick.

Excuse me, but didn't HE accept money? Didn't HE most likely spend it?

It went to HIS companies paypal account, and he cannot just up and say, oops, I'm very sick now, to bad y'all....

Perhaps if he had come here and sounded a bit HUMBLED by the mess ups instead of with guns and arrogance blazing, it might have made a bit of a difference.

If you have a business and accept MONEY, you have to DELIVER and timely. And you have to COMMUNICATE.

I'm sorry, but even if someone dies in your immediate family, you STILL have to fullfill your commitments, even if you grief inside. If you get sick, you STILL have to fullfill your commitments.

If he can come here and post what he did, he can email and tell his associates to REFUND people and not to accept new orders and NOT TO BUY MORE STOCK until things are on the up and up...

Oh, but he DID get in touch with them....to instruct them to ignore people and to put the ones voicing their unhappiness at the end of the line.

Sorry, but he put himself into the situation, and no matter WHAT he says, he is VERY MUCH SO involved in every single deal that has been made.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I have to agree with Lucille and Misty. Whenever Chris' illness developed, and then progressed, the spigots that kept the money coming in (marketing, PayPal, bank transfers, etc) were left wide open, completely at his direction, if for no other point of blame than he had the power to modify it to any degree he felt proper. So his condition, however incapacitating it may be, was not a hindrance (or excuse) then. And now it is when its time to deliver the goods?

We're not talking low-margin corn snakes here. I know larger operations then TSE that run smooth as silk with two people. Impeccably smooth. Sure there can be a problem here and there, but not some weeks-and-months-on-end snow job. It was an earlier post when Chris "wished his situation" on a few. Whether as ill or not as some may think, I have no clue myself except in what I have read here. What it does look most like is one giant house-of-cards, not some solid business built on ethics and integrity, that got too high. It is no pleasure for anyone for be critical of Chris at this point (well ... almost no one, but he was suspended again), but it is Chris who took a bad situation, if that's all that it is, and chose to make it worse. Good-guy bad-guy, he brought it all on himself.

 

[kmurphy]

Misty and Lucille, I don't disagree with the anything that either of you have said. I guess I was disturbed by the harshness of some of the posts when questioning the illness.
I don't know if anyone on this forum has been depressed or not, but when you are, you basically don't give a sh*t. A simple phone call seems like climbing Mt. Vesuvius. You realize that you need to get things done but days go by and you haven't done a thing. When you're angry you don't care what the consequences of your actions are.
Sure it would have been great if Chris came here all apologetic with promises to make things better. However, there really hasn't been any proof given, that Chris is the one accepting funds, making decisions etc. I know his last email sounded like he was giving orders but they may have been just trying to piss people off. Honestly, you couldn't make a worse business decision, then putting legitmate complainers on the back of the list, if you tried.
I am not jumping on Chris's band wagon by any means. TSE needs to straighten things out big time.

 

[Justin Mitcham]

I have another question....if they were supposedly sending out orders in the order they were received, (until they got ticked off and started moving people to the bottom of the pile, anyway) why is it that some people who ordered in January seem to have gotten animals, but we have someone who ordered in NOVEMBER that hasn't????

the reason is clear...it is a line of BS. I have worked with 2 wholesale outfits over the past decade. Both outfits much larger than Chris's, in fact my own business here is probably larger than TSE, Paypal list the # of verified deals a business does , last I looked he was under 200 verified deals, I myself have more deals than that listed under my personal paypal account. I know that doesn't account for all the money orders and people who pay directly. But since most people now use it to buy online it is something worth noting.
I feel this bit of information is important to shed some light on the fact that if his business has grown to the point where they can no longer handle the orders then his paypal rating should reflect that by having many 100's of verified deals?? The statement that he has extra trucks pulling up and shipping out dozens of orders daily just to catch up doesn't float in my book. Personally I feel they are buying peoples animals as they go and filling orders as they go.. there is no waiting line of 100 orders all backed up...It's just a big line of BS to make people wait. Telling people the truth that they do not have there animals or $$ is probably the last thing on there mind right now..
Also I just ran a check on there paypal account...seems they have been shut down by them... It stated they are unable to receive or send funds!! That's pretty interesting.
I think it is time TSE "good Guy " standing be revoked until they get things straighten out.