• Responding to email notices you receive.
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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

That is another GREAT point.

Something about the "hundreds of transactions, trucks can't accept all the boxes, extra trucks coming in" struck me as waaaaaaaaaaay out there....

Much, much larger facilities manage just fine.

I DO believe they have many orders backed up. But I don't believe its "hundreds" of them. And I don't believe the excuse about the trucks not being able to keep up with the shipping.

What I do "suspect" is that they wait on animals themselfs to ship out. And I also suspect that they wait on "funds" coming in (through new orders) to PAY for shipping out animals.
 
kmurphy said:
.
I don't know if anyone on this forum has been depressed or not, but when you are, you basically don't give a sh*t.

I am well aware of the clinical signs of depression, having been a psychiatric nurse for many years.
Perhaps that is what set off my thought processes: the last post from Chris is not one at all where he doesn't give a darn, he is actively taking a stand by voicing his opinion and putting people on the bottom of heaps.
The last post of his shows involvement, more than I would expect from a seriously ill or depressed person. A person very depressed or ill would not post at all.
 
With each revelation, the "preponderance of evidence" continues to stack all to one side. It is very difficult to reconcile the objective PayPal numbers with the concept of "FedEx overload" or "two guys too busy". The current scenario also best fits a "ponzi-scheme" structure than a legitimate business. With accounts now being shut-down, any hope by "creditors" awaiting product from TSE does not look good. You can't get blood out of a turnip, but as has been pointed out in this thread, there is recourse against individual entities. Might I suggest that Cathy and Rob and other creditors contact each other on the side, and maybe split the cost of getting some good legal advice. If TSE was not some form of corporation, you can go after its "owners" etc directly, as pointed out before. But even if they are a corporation, they are still not afforded any protection if they violated statutes (such as the UCC), other laws, or their own Operating Agreement. This is known as "piercing the corporate veil", and lets you go directly after the company's officers. This may not be an easy decision to make for many reasons, but if sympathy is one that is blocking you, this is where the arrogance of the treatment you have received may tip the scale.
 
Does anyone know Pat or Glens last names or contact info other then through TSE? Chris wouldnt leave people that either werent experienced in the reptile business or familiar with animals to run the company. If they are handling the orders and caring for the animals they must have been in the hobby for a while and know what they are doing. They have to have experience from some where. If they are handling the ball pythons inclusively then one might expect them to be known in those circles. Do they have another business outside of TSE?
 
Does ANYONE have any pictures of TSE visible morphs? The parents of those many hets they have sold?
Any pics of the facility, cages, eggs, ANYTHING ??

Even if someone says they prefer NOT to have visitors, due to fears of getting robbed, etc....that wouldn't stop anyone from having at least SOME pictures of setups, animals, clutches...

Just WHAT made people so sure they were getting captive born AND BRED Ball Pythons?

Just WHAT made anyone so sure that all the hets were indeed bred by TSE?

I just don't see a single thing pointing to it, not even prior to this mess...

And yes, time to remove the good guy certificate. Chris own words have taken it to this point, they do NOT deserve this and I would hate for more people to get deceived or get a false sense of security by looking at that certificate.
 
nicolai said:
Chris wouldnt leave people that either werent experienced in the reptile business or familiar with animals to run the company. ?

This is a red herring. It is not our responsibility to make sure Chris chose good help, it is his.
And if the job is not getting done, why waste efforts running around looking for credentials?

There is a shoe company ad that says it best:

'Just do it'.
 
EVERY trustworthy breeder of high end animals that I know of, keeps stringent records on clutches, parents, hatchlings.

There are records of WHICH hatchling/live birth comes from WHICH parent, etc.

How come TSE guarantee only mentions the baby and its picture? Where does it say from which PARENTS it came from? Where are the pics of the PARENTS?
 
I am beginning to believe Pat/Glenn Shelton don't even exist. The may well be creations of Chris. Again we have misdirection "Don't blame poor sick me, blame the two stooges Pat/Glenn".

Chris is the one who recieves the money from Paypal. No one else, but Chris. Does anyone have an address for Chris or TSE. If they are to be served, I need to get an address.
 
They also have always shown selling homozygous forms of the hets on their ads.....has anyone bought a VISUAL morph from them?

ANYONE?
 
Robert,Looking through NY state laws, this is what i found.....

Written Contracts
Under New York law, all contracts with an underlying value of $500 or more must be in writing, or they are not binding on the parties.[1] Further, consumers who agree by telephone to contracts with a total value of $500 or more without a subsequent written contract are not protected by state law, which makes oral agreements for the sale of goods of $500 or more unenforceable.[2]


Retail Contract Refunds
A consumer does not have a general right to a cash refund after a purchase is made. A seller isn't required to offer refunds or exchanges, though many do. Under New York law, sellers with a cash refund policy must post the policy and give the refund within 20 days.[19] If a seller offers both refunds and exchanges, you may decide which you'd prefer.
“No Cash Refund” Policies May Be Deceptive
Signs in many stores specify a “no cash refund” policy. This policy is at variance with a consumer’s warranty law rights, and is deceptive. For example, if a product is defective, the consumer may have the right to revoke acceptance and receive a full cash refund. Statements or signs that there are no cash refunds, without disclosing an exception for defective merchandise, are thus deceptive because they misrepresent the consumer’s legal rights. The same can be said for store refund policies that do not make exceptions where a sale involves misrepresentations about the goods, their performance, or other characteristics. Such misrepresentation is also a basis to seek a full cash refund, and policies that do not explicitly allow for this are deceptive.
 
lucille said:
This is a red herring. It is not our responsibility to make sure Chris chose good help, it is his.
And if the job is not getting done, why waste efforts running around looking for credentials?

There is a shoe company ad that says it best:

'Just do it'.


Here we go again, who said anything about anyone here have that responsibilty lucille? Credentials wasn't the point lucille, other info people could use to contact them is. Wasting efforts isnt the point lucille - finding out whos running TSE and thier info is. It wasn't a red herring lucille' it was a salmon.
 
lucille said:
A person very depressed or ill would not post at all.

I think you are quite wrong about that. This is coming from personally battling depression AND having been quite ill (though not quite as severe as mono plus two heart attacks)...not watching from the other side. He's watching his business go up in flames, a business he worked hard to build for years, and he's not the one causing the destruction. How can that be anything but gut-wrenching? It would illicit a responce from nearly anyone still breathing...take into consideration of the number of posts in this thread from Chris (not exactly overwhelming) and it's completely within reason for someone ill or depressed to do. Keyboard typing doesn't exactly take a lot of energy, staying awake and sitting does and can severly limit typing when ill (or depressed in some cases). I can understand where he's coming from (knowing his personality and for the reasons mentioned above), and while I don't think it's the best course of action to take, I don't blame his aggravated stance. Put yourself in his shoes for a bit.

There are questions that should be answered by the people currently taking care of the snakes - not Chris as he has made quite clear that his only focus is making it to the next day. Have you ever been on bed-rest for weeks on end? It's no picnic, it leaves you very weak, and you're there for a reason.

To the boys at TSE:

What's up with the sick snake? Belly rot and parasites are not what I would expect from TSE.

Why, if you're up to your neck in orders and you can get them out fast enough, don't you refund the people who have asked for a refund? The money shouldn't be spent until the snake has arrived OK. It would certainly lighten the load, and you guys apparently need it.

Are these snake actually bred there at TSE? There is certainly some reasonable doubt at this point in time.

I'm sure there are others that need to be answered....but I can't think of them at the moment. SOMEONE needs to take some time to answer these questions honestly and calm the boiling water a bit. I don't want or expect Chris to answer...I doubt he's 100% up on the ongoings at TSE. When the boss is away, the workers will play.

I think the question of hets is unnecessary and harmful at this point in time. No one has had reason to doubt in the past...and unless they confirm snakes are coming from outside sources, there's no reason to doubt now. Not ONE person has stated their het didn't prove out...all you've got is a bunch of speculation. When that road comes, I'm sure we'll pass it. For now, I'd love to see it put to rest unless someone actually has a reason (and some proof) to believe their het is not het at all.

To Chris, hopefully you know I am pulling for you 100% to get better ASAP. While it may seem like a good idea to have them ONLY ship, do emails for shipping, and care for animals, it's only putting fuel on the fire. People want answers, and they want them last week...one of your boys NEEDS to spend a portion of their day answering these questions and refund to those who ask for it. You can rebuild (or they can) AFTER the backlog has been taken care of and concerns are answered....but only if all bridges haven't been burnt first. I really don't want you to see you go down this way. It's foolish to think that no communication is going to make things better...that's what got TSE here in the first place.

And here I thought I was going to keep my nose out of this. :rolleyes:
 
Not one person has stated they haven't proven out........but not ONE person has stated that they HAVE, either.
 
And Shanti, you say "put ourselves in his shoes"....well, try putting yourself in OUR shoes. There are people that paid for snakes over SIX MONTHS AGO, and haven't even gotten an email from them. The snakes that have been sent out are sick. Not to mention many of us would not have placed the orders to begin with if we had known what was going on. Chris stated that he specifically directed these unknown employees NOT to answer our emails, then gets pissy when we start getting upset??

I'm sorry Shanti, I normally agree with your posts, but I think you're off base on this one.
 
Why, if you're up to your neck in orders and you can get them out fast enough, don't you refund the people who have asked for a refund?

Sorry, that was "and you CAN'T get them out fast enough,".
 
Cat_72 said:
And Shanti, you say "put ourselves in his shoes"....well, try putting yourself in OUR shoes. There are people that paid for snakes over SIX MONTHS AGO, and haven't even gotten an email from them. The snakes that have been sent out are sick. Not to mention many of us would not have placed the orders to begin with if we had known what was going on. Chris stated that he specifically directed these unknown employees NOT to answer our emails, then gets pissy when we start getting upset??

I'm sorry Shanti, I normally agree with your posts, but I think you're off base on this one.

Oh no Cathy, I must not have gotten across what I fully feel.

I ABSOLUTELY think that everyone who has asked for a refund needs one NOW. I find it inexcusable. I find the lack of communication inexcusable. In short, TSE is in some deep doo-doo. However, Chris is taking a LOT...and a lot of it is purely speculation (some of it is deserved). I'd LOVE to hear some answers...but I don't think Chris is the correct person to be doing it. Pat and Glen are the ones running the business at this point in time...they are the ones who are up on everything....THEY are the ones who can and should be giving answers. I find Chris's "ignore" directive to be quite short sighted.
 
Justin Mitcham said:
I think it is time TSE "good Guy " standing be revoked until they get things straighten out.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. The standing within the BOI Good Guy Certification program is SOLELY determined by the members voting on both the Good Guy Poll and the Traders Ratings. I will not circumvent that process with an override, no matter what my feelings may personally be on the matter. This was designed to be a peer determined process and will continue to be used as such. It will be YOU who determines who is a Good Guy or a Bad Guy, not me.

I hope this clears this up a bit.
 
Cat_72 said:
And Shanti, you say "put ourselves in his shoes"....well, try putting yourself in OUR shoes. There are people that paid for snakes over SIX MONTHS AGO, and haven't even gotten an email from them. The snakes that have been sent out are sick. Not to mention many of us would not have placed the orders to begin with if we had known what was going on. Chris stated that he specifically directed these unknown employees NOT to answer our emails, then gets pissy when we start getting upset??

I'm sorry Shanti, I normally agree with your posts, but I think you're off base on this one.


I dont have an animal on hold with them....But i think its about time that people waiting for animals on here just get legal advice and stick it to TSE.

Nicolai. The whole NY law thing you posted about refunds and who is entitled and who is not , is not really relevant here for the most part. That law says if someone RECIEVES a product and it is defective or one is dissatidfied or so on , that there is no guaranteed refund for some circumstances. Someone correct me if im wrong.

Well , very few people here have even recieved a product from TSE so that whole NY law thing is void.

I would be getting the police involved if it was me waiting on an animal , or some other legal recourse, this is total BS.
 
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