Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Ian S.]

Well... the closest thing I can find to this vulgarity talk is the which is on your site. or was it slime hmmm... lets see now please I could use some help?? honestly?? Just continue to make your examples with someone else. We all know who the great and powerfull OZ is. You don't need to puff out your chest here. You have the power to ban me however I have not been profain in any mannor You could have addressed me in a PM. did you?? A bann would be 100% your loss not mine.

 

[nextworld3]

Come on Ian, Websalve is not the "bad guy" here and neither is all the fauna people you are arguing with, just let it be. I understand where you are coming from but this isnt the place...

 

[DSsuper92]

Daniel1983 has brought up one of the most valid points in this whole debacle. When businesses like TSE go bad they end up hurting the hobby as a whole and not just the people they have ripped off. That's why the good people of this community have to shun the bad even if they didn't harm you.

The ripple effect from what TSE has done can be pretty big. How many people bought hets from TSE and resold them. What happens when those don't prove out? A lot of people could have to come up with a substantial amount of cash after this is all over with.

All the fighting between people here is sidetracking the real issue and that is that a once reputable business has gone down hill and taken their unsuspecting customers with them. On top of that it's drowning out the messages from people that have been ripped off by TSE like myself.

BTW, I've emailed the sales department the last three days with no response back so they must be working extra hard to get everybodies packages out.

Later,
David Schroeder

 

[Ian S.]

Come on Ian, Websalve is not the "bad guy" here and neither is all the fauna people you are arguing with, just let it be. I understand where you are coming from but this isnt the place...

I like webslave as well. No problems with the guy up untill the vulgarity nonsense. I have only argued the points and cases represented by other members that either debunked my claims, lashed out against my reasoning, as well as my zero tolerance for standing buy while this guy puts on his proffesional suit and tie vocabulary calling fauna members and others stupid liars.

 

[Ian S.]

I understand where you are coming from but this isnt the place...

One more thing.... your right again It would have been an honor and a pleasure to address this in a private message with webslave. However I was publically humiliated

 

[Chameleon Company]

David, with 900+ posts,

There are going to be disagreements. You state:

All the fighting between people here is sidetracking the real issue and that is that a once reputable business has gone down hill and taken their unsuspecting customers with them. On top of that it's drowning out the messages from people that have been ripped off by TSE like myself.

I beg to differ. Anyone can post their thoughts at any time, and put that moment of the discussion on any track they choose. No one has taken the floor and held things off-or-on topic, as thay cannot. The longer this thread is up in the lights, and the more hits it gets for any reason, then the further the word-of-mouth will go as people chat about this, whether at the water cooler or in a distant chat room somewhere. 300 posts, 500 posts, 900 posts, it makes no difference after about the first 100. People will skim it if not familiar with it, and get the drift of it all just the same.

I wish I had a post to put up to ease your frustration with Chris betraying your trust as he has. Chris at TSE would love for this thing to run out of gas and fade off the BOI like a rock dropped in muddy water. It will run out of gas sooner or later, but not tonight. And one thing we have all noticed is that it has kept a large audience for an extended period of time. It took a group effort to do it.

 

[Serpwidgets]

I had three transactions with Chris (tse) for geckos and such and all three transactions went very well and i received healthy animals. I have yet to have any bad transactions with TSE or Chris personally. Should I now remove my vote from there even though he hasnt wronged me? Rich stated that all the voting is a "personal" thing for all members. Like I said before. I think he can still make right by everyone, and hope he does, in the end even if he doesnt he still never did me wrong.
I certainly wont be bullied into changing my vote by peer pressure on this thread. You voted how you wanted and that was "YOUR" choice to make and I don't fault you for it or want you to change your vote. If I had received sick animals or got taken for money i would have been the first person to change my vote to the "bad guy" side!!!

I was not murdered or eaten by Jeffrey Dahmer, so he is a good guy and I recommend that other people trust him completely...

I think your posts in this thread say a lot about you. Your posts have clearly shown that you value "loyalty to what you call a friend" over any sort of moral code that distinguishes right from wrong. It is obvious that you have extremely warped and demented definitions of the words "friend" and "karma."

You are basically the getaway driver. You can keep pretending that you don't know what anyone is talking about, but nobody is buying it.

 

[ravensgait]

Has anyone else received PMs or emails from TSE customers who haven't received anything yet? I have from 2 people that are not paying members here asking me to post their stories. I told both they should contact Rich to see if he'll let them post here but haven't seen a post by either one.

Rich how would that work would they be allowed to make a post here ??

Seems there are also some that don't know about this post or the BOI out there who have done business with Chris. Randy

 

[ravensgait]

Nick I went and looked at Bills thread to see if you voted one way or the other there and saw what I thought I would, you didn't Vote. Then neither did I despite all the pressure from other members some of us just didn't vote.

Here we are again people getting upset because so and so didn't Vote with everyone else. I can't say as I agree with you not changing your Vote in Chris's thread Nick or with how you have responded in this thread but I respect that you make your own choices and good or bad in others eyes you stand by them. Folks lets not go their again Vote how you want but don't try to tell other how they should.

Nick I asked this before but didn't get an answer have you ever met Chris?? Has anyone else here met him and talked to the guy? Reason I ask is you can't get a true feel for a person on line.. Randy

 

[WebSlave]

Has anyone else received PMs or emails from TSE customers who haven't received anything yet? I have from 2 people that are not paying members here asking me to post their stories. I told both they should contact Rich to see if he'll let them post here but haven't seen a post by either one.

Rich how would that work would they be allowed to make a post here ??

Seems there are also some that don't know about this post or the BOI out there who have done business with Chris. Randy

Sorry, but no. If I allowed them to post without paying the membership fee, which I have explicitly stated will be used to help keep the false registrations down for posting on the BOI, how can I justify requiring ANYONE to have to go that route? What argument could I use to say that THESE people are exempted, but others will not be?

The only time someone is allowed free access to post here is if they are targeted in a thread as a bad guy and they would like to rebut those claims. I can't see requiring them to pay to do so, under those circumstances.

At this point I can't see any reason to change this policy.

 

[tejasranger]

hey everyone the FBI has an internet crimes division. it only takes 2-3 minutes.just in case anyone wanted to file a complant.

Stan is correct, It took me more than a couple of minutes, but it was a easy process. I would reccommend that every person that has issues with Chris file a complaint with the FBI. I will show the size and scope of his racket, with all the complaints going to one place, and will speed up their pursuit of Chris. Here is the link. http://complaint.ic3.gov/update

Chris this ones for you, get well soon.

 

[varnyard]

Chris, there is now 909 posts on this thread and 53,028 views. Looks like just a few, to say the least are taking notice of this thread.

I can not understand why you would through away all of your hard work building your reputation. Bad thing is, some of your customers are my costumers as well. Two of them are repeat costumers of mine. I know what kind of people they are. They are the kind that sellers like you and me, as well as anyone else would concider the best to sell to.

I just cannot understand why you would just act like it is a game to you. Yes, I said that based on the facts here.
I have said before, anything less than the truth is a lie. Lets look at some of the facts.

At first, You were way to ill to post. You were going to be on deaths bed. What a way to buy some time.

Second, when you posted here, you stated you had nothing to do with TSE, it was being run by the still unproven Pat and Glen. I might add no one seems to know anything about.

Third, you made a fuss that they need to get busy shipping, now how can they ship if FedEx will not pick up your packages? There has been no proof that you have shipped anything except one package of sick snakes. Also with parasites not normally found in CBBs.

Fourth, I was the one that originally brought up that I had doubts you were even sick. A phone call from Robert confirmed my belief. You can stand, with the (Oh thats my ex thing, but I don't think anyone is buying it.)

Fifth, another trick to buy some time to recover the funds you spent.
Proof of this would be the fact in you comment, If anyone complains they will be put on the bottom of the list. Is this yet another way to buy some more time.

Sixth, you now want everyone to contact Paypal or the CC companies to collect their money. You knew this would also take time to process. Yet another way to buy time.

seventh, Oh, almost forgot, you will not have a PC and will not be able to post for quite some time. Well, that was not true either. Proof of that was the posts you made here two days later.

Which one of these excuses are you going to tell the law when they come to pick you up? Or will you have yet another? I think they might be a little harder to convince.

 

[Lucille]

r lucille how about you back off and let some people awnser my questions as to how many refunds have been made this week or in the past or for the last six months.

Sorry, I'm not the back off type.
I am not preventing you from asking questions, nor others from answering. If you have been reading this thread, you will see that I myself am asking questions and making statements. You will note that my statements are made in a professional manner and I expect that of you as well.

The surest way to get this thread dismissed by those in the reptile world as well as the potential customers out there that are making choices based on what they read here is to allow this to become a free for all. Results will be way more effective and far reaching if we say how we feel in an honest yet professional way.

 

[varnyard]

What was I thinking?? Throw away his reputation. I must be tired.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I think we have reached

the point where TSE is out of business. They no longer have any avenues for receiving funds and with all the whispers going through the herp world and seeing the amount of people who have visited this site , we hope that Chris does not materialize as a new business which is something people seem to do very well in this unregulated industry.

Insofar as Chris is concerned, as Ive stated many times over, he is personally responsible for any and all legal matters that may arise out of TSE, and if would strongly suggest that in order to insure that he does not provide a repeat performance of stealing money, the viewing public (which they are doing) should continue to notify the necessary agencies for criminal violations as well. Hopefully something will come out of this.

I saw that his good guy status has been dethroned! Thats a start for easy visual awareness. Time to move on.

 

[nicolai]

I was not murdered or eaten by Jeffrey Dahmer, so he is a good guy and I recommend that other people trust him completely...

I think your posts in this thread say a lot about you. Your posts have clearly shown that you value "loyalty to what you call a friend" over any sort of moral code that distinguishes right from wrong. It is obvious that you have extremely warped and demented definitions of the words "friend" and "karma."

You are basically the getaway driver. You can keep pretending that you don't know what anyone is talking about, but nobody is buying it.

Your talking apples and oranges again. jeffrey dahmer cant right the wrongs he did now can he, he cant regurgitate the people he ate and say " here you can have them back and we are even again" now can he. Chris on the other hand still has the option and ability to make things right and the ball is in his court now. If not the ball will be in another kind of court.



You can take my posts any way you want to Charlie (Serwidget) because we all have are opinions and want and need to express them how we see fit. Other will always be judgemental towards people no matter what your stand may be. No two people are the same.
As far as my moral code goes, I dont thnk its comprimised one iota. I see people on this thread that used to chat with chris on fauna and his forum and other places and consider him a friend but have jumped ship on him in his time of need. Now what happens if he does pay Robert, cat and the others and cleans up this mess an everyone comes out happy, Will they then flop back to the other side and say, sorry i was wrong about you and you were in fact caught in a bad situation and i should have been thee to help you through it? Do you honostly thought this out and intentionally set out to do this to people? Maybe you do, I really don't. Maybe i will be proved wrong if the hets dont prove out, I have been wrong before and a not afraid to admit it. But for now i am personally giving him the benefit of the doubt in the hopes he will straighten this mess out.
Once again you will notice that i dont fault you or anyone hear on thier views or opinions towards Chris and try to change they way you stand on this issue but yet you feel the need to continue fault me for mine in your demeaning posts towards me. How about we let each other think what we may and all try to work towards a solution to all this. The whole point to this thread is about helping robert, cat and others retrieve whats rightfully thiers, not about fighting amongst ourselves.

Nick I went and looked at Bills thread to see if you voted one way or the other there and saw what I thought I would, you didn't Vote.

Bill who?? If its the bill I am thinking of, I never did business with him or know him on a personal basis.

Nick I asked this before but didn't get an answer have you ever met Chris?? Has anyone else here met him and talked to the guy? Reason I ask is you can't get a true feel for a person on line.. Randy

No i have not met him in person, I have talked to him uncounted times in chat, on emails, through forum posts and several times on the phone. You are correct about not knowing a person truly on the phone.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Just one other final thought

several posts back Rich Z posted some advertising from TSE. Some of those snakes were marked as " SOLD " and Rich poised the question about someone must have bought them, but if in fact they were sold, would you want to advertise the fact that they were from TSE, that might reduce the investment price, and even loose any potential sales of the offspring if the sale was bogus in the first place! Secondly, it is possible that Chris may have advertised that the snakes were sold purposely , just to show that he had those snakes and secondly as a hook to induce you to buy from him because others have!

 

[varnyard]

nicolai:You can take my posts any way you want to Charlie (Serwidget) because we all have are opinions and want and need to express them how we see fit. Other will always be judgemental towards people no matter what your stand may be. No two people are the same.

Great point, this tends to be true.

nicolai:As far as my moral code goes, I dont thnk its comprimised one iota. I see people on this thread that used to chat with chris on fauna and his forum and other places and consider him a friend but have jumped ship on him in his time of need.

Now this part, makes me sick at my stomach. Chris chose his path. Don't put the blame on the ones that no longer want anything to do with real bad dealings.

nicolai: Now what happens if he does pay Robert, cat and the others and cleans up this mess an everyone comes out happy, Will they then flop back to the other side and say, sorry i was wrong about you and you were in fact caught in a bad situation and i should have been thee to help you through it?

Nope, it will never happen. He wanted it this way, now he is stuck. I don't see anyone running back to him. And yet again you act as if all these good people are to blame for Chris not doing the right thing!!!!

nicolaio you honostly thought this out and intentionally set out to do this to people?

Maybe not, but it happen. And worse, he tried to cover it up.

nicolai:Maybe you do, I really don't. Maybe i will be proved wrong if the hets dont prove out, I have been wrong before and a not afraid to admit it. But for now i am personally giving him the benefit of the doubt in the hopes he will straighten this mess out.

You might be next on his list.

nicolai:Once again you will notice that i dont fault you or anyone hear on thier views or opinions towards Chris and try to change they way you stand on this issue but yet you feel the need to continue fault me for mine in your demeaning posts towards me.

I do not fault you in any way, you are a true friend to Chris. I would hope that he respects that.

nicolai:How about we let each other think what we may and all try to work towards a solution to all this. The whole point to this thread is about helping robert, cat and others retrieve whats rightfully thiers, not about fighting amongst ourselves.

Thats a good point, I agree!!

 

[nicolai]

And yet again you act as if all these good people are to blame for Chris not doing the right thing!!!!

If you or anyone took any of my posts that way i am truly sorry because everything that has happened is most assuridly his fault. I dont remember ever insinuating that anyone other then chris/pat/glen were to blame, but if i did I am sorry. I know that Robert and the others have been wrong and deserve to get back what they are out.

 

[nicolai]

"Wronged" not "Wrong", spell check didnt catch that.