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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Well, sadly I had yet another new name contact me tonight to find out how to get added to "the list" of those of us who ordered from TSE and never received anything. The list just keeps growing. :(

Zach, you need to try having a little talk with those eggs and tell them to get hatching.....I can't stand the wait.
 
shep151 said:
I suppose only a judge/jury could decide that, but speculatively I'd say prison.

6 days left incubating 7 TSE "het Pied x het Pied" eggs!
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Exactly what day are they at? 6 days from pipping , or from when you can cut the eggs?
 
This close to hatching he should be able to candle the eggs and tell if any of the hatchlings have a "lack" of pigment.
 
Fedawg said:
Exactly what day are they at? 6 days from pipping , or from when you can cut the eggs?
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Why would you want to "CUT" the eggs? Just curious. I would love to see a pied come out of this clutch if only for the sake of all the people that bought the hets having a chance to prove out theirs as well.
 
Well Nicolai

Roughly at day 53-54 , some even earlier , you can cut the egg and look inside to see what you have got. Saying that , because he could find out sooner than later if there is a Pied in there. Not saying to do it if you havent a clue.
 
As much as we'd all like to know whether you have pies inside of those eggs I think that the risk to the babies should outweigh our curiosity to know. No matter what they look like I believe that pipping early should be avoided if necessary... go ahead and wait for the first one to pip on it's own naturally, then pip the rest of the eggs if you want. We've waited this long, albeit not so patiently at times, let's give the babies the best chance at fully absorbing their yolk sacks and coming out as nice strong hatchlings when they do emerge.
 
Agreed, Cathy.

Some do it routinely, but I'm more worried about my eggs hatching healthy than knowing ahead of time what's inside of them. Hatching a pied does you no good if it's not alive. ;)
 
Cat_72 said:
Agreed, Cathy.

Some do it routinely, but I'm more worried about my eggs hatching healthy than knowing ahead of time what's inside of them. Hatching a pied does you no good if it's not alive. ;)
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What do you mean not alive??? Cutting the egg does not automatically kill the snake.

You dont cut the egg and just pull the snake out , the snake will come out when its ready .

Oo and Cathy , I just had a friend of mine call me that is out in Iowa that cut his eggs at day 52 and hes staring at a baby Ivory....
 
Derek, I simply meant if someone doesn't know what they are doing, and cuts too much or too early. I have cut the eggs before, but I just prefer to wait until I see at least one little nose poking out in the clutch. I'm just one that believes it's safer to let nature take its course, for the most part. I'd hate to see someone cut a blood vessel or something and have the baby bleed to death before it has a chance to hatch.

Oh MAN Derek, an ivory??.....that is SO cool!!! There really must be more "snake people" here in Iowa than I've managed to find!!
 
I usually wait until at least one has cut the egg on its own; only then will I carefully cut an inch slit on the rest. Using this approach I never had a problem and it's seems to help them out with the hatching process (as most of them will peep out through the already cut slit). Of course we all know that no pieds showing up in just one clutch is not conclusive evidence that the parents are not true heteros but of course we are one step closer...
 
If the snakes are 100% het Pied then shouldn't one of the babies be a pied out of the six eggs? I know a little about genetics and doing a punnet (?) square. Hhhhmmmmmm :ack2:
 
TailsWithScales said:
If the snakes are 100% het Pied then shouldn't one of the babies be a pied out of the six eggs? I know a little about genetics and doing a punnet (?) square. Hhhhmmmmmm :ack2:
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All that is genetic theory , there are people that have had all visuals on 3 eggs clutches , and some with 2 visuals on 6 eggs clutches.....ya never know what your gonna get
 
It's just about probability (chance); the more animals you breed the close you will get to the Mendelian proportions. Of 1000 babies born from 100% heterozygous breeders, chances are you are going to have close to 250 visual pieds, but out of seven...???

Regards.
 
Ya, the sperm and eggs are not sorted out or anything, they are randomly distributed. ;)

So with one egg from het X het, the chance of not hatching a pied is 3/4.

With two eggs, the chance of not hatching a pied (since they are independent events) is 3/4 * 3/4. (9/16ths, or approx 56%.)

With all other things being equal, the chance of not hatching a pied (out of 7 eggs from het X het) is 3/4 to the 7th power, or 13.34%. :)
 
TailsWithScales said:
If the snakes are 100% het Pied then shouldn't one of the babies be a pied out of the six eggs? I know a little about genetics and doing a punnet (?) square. Hhhhmmmmmm :ack2:
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Genetics is based on statistical probabilities, not guarantees.

That 1 in 4 probability for heterozygous parents applies to EACH egg. Each egg has a 1 in 4 chance of having that heterozygous trait exhibited. The odds are such that you have a 1 in 4 chance with four eggs that one will hatch out your goal, but it certainly is not guaranteed.

Look at it this way: If you flip a coin 4 times and the first three times it lands as "tails", does the fourth flip of that coin HAVE to be "heads"? Of course not. Each flip is a separate test of probability, and this applies to genetics as well. As long as we discount Murphy's Law, of course... :rolleyes: The greater your desire for a particular result, the less the chances that you will actually achieve them......
 
I love the way you put that

I would think that any good breeder would not count their morphs before they hatch. ;)
That is the tough part to all this (in my opinion) is not getting your hopes up for something that may not come. With every clutch I pray to the snake gods that they will put their serpentine blessing on me and a morph will come out of at least one of the eggs. But with a pair of hets there is no guaruntee of that. hmpf
But hey without dreams of hatching morphs where would we be?
 
Fedawg said:
Exactly what day are they at? 6 days from pipping , or from when you can cut the eggs?
Click to expand...
Day 60 is June 16th, which is what I'm counting down to. At 89-90, I've had them go at least within a day or two of 60 days.
I know there are pretty heated debates about cutting, but personally I only cut the "late pippers". At least half the clutch pips before I help out;)
I've done some serious candling over the last week or so, and haven't seen a single one that looks pied. Only two eggs were difficult enough to candle that I couldn't see at least one "alien" pattern on. :no01:

On a side note, it appears that the Fraud Fund Auctions have run their course on Critter Auction, so unless more are posted before I get around to it, I'm going to pull the category.
Many, many thanks to everyone who participated in the FF Auctions, and many thanks to those who donated directly as well! It's always great to see how the community comes together; it just sucks that something like this has to be the driving force...
 
Can someone post the two people to contact for

If you didn't get anything

and

If you received hets



I scrolled through the thread put couldn't find them. Also if there is anything else that is pertinant. a thread just popped up on KS and I've gotten a few emails about it.

Thanks,

Tosha Mcclintock
 
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