Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[reptilebreeder]

once you see this type of a situation occur,you can only expect it to go downhill from here. I would like to know who are the principles of the business, is it a legal business or corporation and who is actually responsible! Secondly, its very convenient for an employer to absolve himself of any liability and leave the burdon of these liabillities on the remaining partners, or whatever you want to call them. When does one person no longer become involved in a business that apparently is having some financial problems. Who bears the responsiblity of providing the service, refunding the money, etc.

Their are some real issues here that need to be addressed. These monies should be refunded and if Chris is no longer affiliated with Top Shelf at this time, or is contemplating some return in the future, he should provide some leadership and resolve this as quickly as possible. The fact that he is not well, is unfortuante, but mortgages still have to be paid, and life does go on.

Very valid questions, and concerns that need to be addressed, and resolved to a "solid" conclusion. This way buyers can know where TSE stands as a business, and where (good or bad), and to whom (TSE vs Chris), the reputation will end up, in the end.

 

[Fedawg]

How is he (Chris@TSE) out of the picture. When He (Chris@TSE) is still the owner? He has responded a few times to this thread already. Cant He (Chris@TSE) tell his employees, partners, or new owners to respond??
If they are employees I'd give them the boot! If they are partners I'd look for some new freinds! If they are New owners I would never buy from them!!

Agree with Jas. If TSE is so backed up on orders that they can't ship or communicate , why do I keep seeing them post ads on Kingsnake for ball morphs?? If you are so backed up , stop trying to sell stuff , and send animals out that have already been paid for that people are waiting on. Here in MA , the past 3-4 weeks has been really great weather , should be no problem shipping. TSE should be able to find one day in there where it is ok to ship, but i guess not........ And i will agree with Jas , if there are new owners , i dont plan to make a purchase ever either. Hope everyone gets their animals soon.

Derek Federico

 

[tejasranger]

Chris,You are incorrect

No. I have more important things to worry about honestly. Not to be rude sir but in all technical terms you are not my customer. I removed myself from operations back in late October. As of this moment I have no intentions of involving myself in operations until my health improves. My health is my first and only concern at the moment as it should be. When I improve I will decide how to involve myself in the business again, if at all. I cannot concern myself with such things now. I should not have even replied to this post in the first place but I thought I should at the very least address it since people seem to love to toss my name around in matters that did not directly involve me. Granted they have run into hard times in my absence but even if I were around I do not think I could have done much better anticipating the crummy weather we were hit with this season. It was quite unfortunate. Again, please be patient. They are doing their best. Hope you enjoy your snakes and the holiday. Take care.

Chris,
YOU are incorrect. I purchased these snakes from YOU. Don't YOU recall YOU told me about your father working for Bell Helicopter before the moved from up north when I contacted you from my Bell email address in Jan? So don't tell me that you had nothing to do with this sale. That is insulting!

Bob England

 

[varnyard]

Simply put I am more concerned with becoming well than to listen to people blame me for transactions I had no part in. Lets make this very simple for you, you probably know more about what is going on than I do.

IMO, He is saying he has nothing to do with it, if he knows less than us.

I currently spend between 18 and 20 hours a day in bed. I rarely am up to checking correspondence, and my reputation at this poitn is of little concern as I am uncertain if I will even be returning at this point. If you have a problem with your transaction I suggest you take it up with Patrick and Glenn whom you have been dealing with all along.

Was anyone contacted and told that they would now need to deal with someone else? I realize Chris was and is sick. But does this excuse him to withholding vital information? Also has anyone have a clue who Patrick and Glenn are?

I am sorry you have encountered delay but I am sure they have plenty on their plates and they are doing the best that they can. From what I have seen some waiting much longer than you who have been very patient, god bless them. I can certainly understand why you may be encountering problems corresponding, if I had received any emails from you similar in attitude to what you have posted here I would not be "jumping" to reply either. Try losing the attitidue perhaps, you catch more flies with honesy or something like that... =]

Good business would have been, to be truthful with you buyers. Maybe a mass email telling your customers. You would no longer be over TSE would have been in order.

Hope you are pleased when you receive your animals and I do hope that everything works out with you guys, you can remove me from the equation thank you very much. I have absolutely no place in this matter any longer and have not for quite some time. Have a good easter. I can be reached at [email protected]. I do apologize if it takes me a while to respond. I do not exactly check it every day.

Chris I realize you are sick, and I wish you the very best in that awful situation. But the fact of the matter is, this message should have been made months ago when you decided that no longer had a part in TSE. JMHO

 

[shrap]

A lot of people will probably think I'm an , and that Chris/TSE has such a good rep, that I should cut some slack....well, normally I would agree, but in this case it appears to be quite a large number of incidents, as opposed to an "innocent mistake". Let's hope everybody is getting their 05's that they paid for ASAP.

The business Top Shelf Exotics should NOT be given any slack in any way at all. That business should be held to the same standards and scrutiny as any other business. There are people there running the business. They are placing ads to sell critters so they should also be shipping, responding to their customers whose money they have had for as long as 5 months and issuing refunds to people because what is going on trumps any TOS excuse they may want to hide behind..

I also hope people get the 05's they paid for and not 06 hatchlings.

 

[Lucille]

I hope that those who are close to Chris will speak with him about this situation. Depending on his actual present status in the company and whether it is incorporated or a partnership, I am guessing he may end up with some personal liability here when people decide to do more than complain if they are forbidden from getting refunds to which they seem to be entitled at this point(as well as reputation harm from the fallout from the emerging dissatisfaction from delayed service.)
Also, and this is just my own feeling, for those deals that he personally agreed to before he gave over management to others, I would think it important that he take just a bit of time, maybe a few minutes a day, and either assure immediate refunds or see that service is improved as those transactions are his.

 

[HerpLuver]

Well, as i actually open my eye's a bit more and see this current situation, it seems that the excuses that where fed to me like horse feed to a blind mare, are a list. A list of BS excuses that Pat and Glenn feed the customers in order to shut them up and hopefully give them more time. But more time to what?

- Honestly fill all the orders they have aquired?
- Wait on supplies?
- Use the money to buy bulk from someone else in order to fill orders?
- Hide in a corner with a dirty mag??

I could care less which one of these answers it is, these customers all have money out to TSE, whether TSE is owned by Chris Johnson, or Pat or Glenn or all 3... Those customers deserve a product. To be honest, from now on i WILL NOT BE RECOMENDING TSE to ANYONE.

Chris, i will purchase from YOU, and YOU alone, NOT under the name TSE.. Cause honestly, pat and glenn sound like a bunch of guys that have no idea what there doing. I remember you saying to me before Chris, in chat, that pat and glenn could barely hold there pants up without you let alone hold up that company and the amount of orders it receives. Leaving the company in the hands of inept employees/partners is not helping your situation.

As much as you want to be OUT of this situation Chris, you are a full part of it.

Why you ask? Cause we've already seen that one or more of these people have recommended sales to other people based on the reputation of YOU, Chris Johnson.

Not Top Shelf Exotics.

Had i not known you i would never have purchased from TSE and would have found a 1.1 100% het albino pair somewhere else. But i purchased from TSE cause i knew you and wanted to put my money where i trusted. Then i started receiving the "Supply shipment didnt get here" or "Weather isnt good to ship" or "NO EMAIL RESPONSE"

Exactly what everyone here has received, its a pattern Chris, and its a pattern of BAD BUSINESS that we flame everyday all day on these boards. I dont want you to go down in the flames of TSE Chris, but i fear if you dont put a boot up someone's rear at TSE to get in gear and shut there excusing mouths up, then you will.

I pray for your health, and that you wont see me as trying to attack you here. I just want what the rest of these people want, a resolution to a growing problem.

Let's get'er done

 

[Whitewater Reptiles]

Looking at the Kingsnake wanted ads you'll find that TSE is taking on new suppliers.
Do you think he has the animals that he sold? Could that be why some have not received their purchases? Shipping can be done most of the year if packaged correctly, I live in Michigan and ship every month of the year with no loss - others do the same, a little common sense goes a long ways. Glenn and or Patrick should refund the people who no longer care to wait... What other kind of business can do this, other than possibly manufacturing?
Mike Derks

 

[HerpLuver]

Also, I believe we all have a right to know ALL the information about Pat and Glenn.

Let's start with last names and positions in the company. How's about there specialties? What exactly do they have the most experience with? TSE is a company name, but Pat and Glenn are the current operators of said business, we need more about them cause if TSE does go down and they decide to start up a new business, i'd like to know there information so i know NOT to purchase from them again.

 

[jglass38]

Here is an answer that Chris should provide. Do you breed your own BP morphs or do you buy wholesale and resell from other breeders? There has been talk going around for a long time saying that is exactly what is happening. I questioned Glen on it and he said that TSE only sells their own CB BP morphs. I am starting to wonder if he is telling the truth.

 

[SPJ]

I also hope people get the 05's they paid for and not 06 hatchlings.

I agree 100%.

I hope that the "too cold to ship" excuse is not so they can buy some time while they wait for the 06's to arrive.

These people waiting better get 05's or there will be more complaints.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

when its to

cold to ship, or I am no longer involved in the day to day workings of the business, basically means................avoidance and finally collapse of the business and loss of the funds. A thriving business does not operate on excuses for not doing business. These people are looking to get money and are providing the oldest excuse in the world.........their to busy to ship, to busy to reply to emails, and in the case of Chris, is no longer affiliated with a quality operation that was based on the good faith of his own name.

 

[The BoidSmith]

This certainly comes as a surprise to me. One of my favorite snakes is a Black Sumatran Blood that I bought from Chris last year. Sorry to hear about his illness.

 

[dmasio]

Again this illness thing of Chris's is terrible I mean it would have to be if hes in bed 18-20 hours a day and like I said in a post earlier it was almost to the day the exact same time last year that I got that excuse so he has to have some kind of terminal illness to be sick that bad for a year straight. (I hope not but you know what I mean) But Herluver said it right "We should have more info on Glenn and Patrick" and that should be Chris's job to bring that info forward and to post that since he is no longer is running the show over there. Because personally I was happy with the het albino girls I bought from him, left him a good feedback and thread on here and he did the same for me so Im not defending him nor am I blasting him Im berating his practices. But I would never buy again from TSE or Chris for the simpple fact I feel that it was in Chris's hands last year and still I recieved no emails until I got in touch with him first and still waited months for the animals. It seems that I was not the only one.
Damian Macioce

 

[tejasranger]

Well, Chris I am still waiting for your response to my last post. It was you that I made the purchase from, not Pat, not Glenn, but you. So quit your little pity party about your health, stop the denials about you not being part of this, suck it up and be a man. You need to call me and try to make this right, and make it right for everyone else you mislead. Once this issue is resolved, we can go our separate ways. All I wanted was to purchase a $1500 pair of 100% het for pied BP from you. I didn't want to sit here day after day wondering if I had gotten ripped off, I didn't want to have to air your dirty laundry on the forum either. Now I wonder if calling the Buffalo PD is the next logical step in this fiasco. All you needed to do Chris was to MEET YOUR COMMITMENTS. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I guess that I'll never get my snakes. Did you ever really have them Chris? Was it ever your intention to honor this transaction? And to have the audacity to bitch about the tone of my email! You are showing your true colors, pal. So why don't you crawl back under the cabinets you cockroach until the lights are turned off, and you can go back to besmirching the integrity of the next crop of unsuspecting customers.

 

[hhmoore]

Well, Chris I am still waiting for your response to my last post. It was you that I made the purchase from, not Pat, not Glenn, but you. So quit your little pity party about your health, stop the denials about you not being part of this, suck it up and be a man. You need to call me and try to make this right, and make it right for everyone else you mislead. Once this issue is resolved, we can go our separate ways. All I wanted was to purchase a $1500 pair of 100% het for pied BP from you. I didn't want to sit here day after day wondering if I had gotten ripped off, I didn't want to have to air your dirty laundry on the forum either. Now I wonder if calling the Buffalo PD is the next logical step in this fiasco. All you needed to do Chris was to MEET YOUR COMMITMENTS. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I guess that I'll never get my snakes. Did you ever really have them Chris? Was it ever your intention to honor this transaction? And to have the audacity to bitch about the tone of my email! You are showing your true colors, pal. So why don't you crawl back under the cabinets you cockroach until the lights are turned off, and you can go back to besmirching the integrity of the next crop of unsuspecting customers.

Wow, that was rather harsh. I was trying to avoid involvement in this particular thread, but I guess that was just not meant to be. My perspective may be a bit different than some of yours, and many of you may not appreciate my stance. I do not know Chris personally; therefore, I don't know the nature of his current health issues/concerns. Unless some of you are friendly with him, I will make the assumption that you do not know either. Quite frankly, the specifics of that matter are not only irrelevant to the situation at hand, they are none of our business.
What is of concern, is the poor customer service that has become part of TSE. This is not a new situation, but one that seems to have been getting worse anytime Chris was not breathing down the necks of his crew. Further, I have to say that Chris was no role model in that area...sure, he was usually pretty good to deal with, but I remember many posts where he was quite rude to his customers. This was demonstrated in posts he made here: by direct comments in threads AND by email responses that he cut & pasted. He sometimes seemed to take pride in belittling customers and giving sarcastic responses. TSE staff being rude to customers seems to be a pretty common complaint, and I have my own story about that (which I am not particularly inclined to post in a public forum). I think lack of effective communication has long been a factor...both internally, and with customers. Their shipping policy seems to be a huge source of problems...but, they argue, it is outlined in their TOS, take it or leave it. Whoever is "in charge" now, is not doing much to improve these things...but is it because it is business as usual, they don't know how to fix it, or they don't recognize the problem?

I find myself treading dangerously close to lines I don't wish to cross (for a variety of reasons), so I'll step away from the keyboard. But first, I would like to take pause to wish Chris well, and hope that he sees/feels some improvement in his state of health.

 

[liquidleaf]

I live very close to where Chris and Top Shelf Exotics are located. Just thought I'd chime in with some input regarding the weather for the last 6 weeks or so. Typical "Buffalo" weather... (FYI Buffalo is not always snowing, locals tend to say weird fluctuating weather is "typical"... like the freak 60 degree January days we occasionally get, followed by 12 degrees and snowstorms, and 90 degree high humidity summer days) - I'd say "unpredictable" before I'd say "cold and snowy".

...We have been having wildly fluctuating temperatures the last 6 weeks. A couple of days in the 50s or 60s, then a couple of days in the 30s or 40s. Often nights have been at the freezing mark or below even when the daytime highs are in the 60s. We had some snow a couple of weeks ago (melted in a day).

So shipping with appropriate heat packs would probably be feasible, but who knows whether or not the low nighttime temps we have been having may have affected wholesalers shipping animals to TSE (complete speculation on my part, just a "maybe") if they use low temperatures to determine safe shipping times. No excuse for the lack of communication... seems like there's a lot going on here and sounds to me like there are some serious hard feelings between Chris and the people currently managing the business, which may account for his terse replies.

I haven't ever done business with TSE or Chris (though I had planned on it), it's disappointing to see a reptile business located near me struggle. I hope your health improves, Chris... and Robert, I hope the management of TSE (whoever they may be) send your animals out SOON.

 

[SableLynx]

Seems like they could solve all thier problems by hiring a good receptionist/office assistant. Then those boys could take care of the snakes and one person would be responsible for initiating or returning phone calls and e-mails, keeping the books, that type of thing. I am sure the boys could get the shipment boxed up for UPS or FEDEX to pick up at thier shop. I hate to see a good reputation get flushed myself

 

[The BoidSmith]

Although I'm not going to speculate on what the reason of the non-delivery of animals is (because I don't know), it's hard for me to believe that it's because they are overwhelmed with work. We don't hear thta kind of problem with companies that are without a doubt twice ior even three times as large. You can't fulfill your shipment obligations? You scale down to the point where you can, period.

As a keeper if you can't take proper care of the animals in your collection, what do you do? First thing you stop bringing animals in, and immediately scake down to a number you can manage. There's something else going on completely unrelated to Chris' health issues. What is it? I suspect that pretty soon we will know, as these kind of problems can't be dragged on forever...

 

[hhmoore]

Part of the issue is that they adhere to the shipping conditions stated in their TOS, so they get very backlogged during the winter months...but they continue taking orders for animals they won't ship. Then, when it warms up (from what I was told), they will only ship so many animals per day, and per week; so it takes them quite a while to catch up. I'm not sure how they deal with new orders that are taken while they are doing this...I have a guess, based upon what I have heard, but this is not the place for supposition. I will say that I have not heard nearly as many complaints of this nature regarding orders placed during the summer