Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[nicolai]

100% het x 100% het almost always produce visual morphs on the first breeding. I have never had 100% het boas not produce visuals the first time.

 

[Bill & Amy]

Maybe but Bill , as you know yourself , Hets dont always produce visuals on the first breeding ........

True, but if there is a visual, then we know. If not, he is even a little more suspect.

 

[Bill & Amy]

100% het x 100% het almost always produce visual morphs on the first breeding. I have never had 100% het boas not produce visuals the first time.

Boas also produce alot more babies than ball pythons. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[NorthamExotics]

One Pair, One Clutch Means Nada...

If ONE pair sold at ONE particular time proves out it does not mean that the numerous other 'hets' sold by TSE will prove out.....

-Jason Northam

 

[Hurley]

In those small BP clutches, you can easily not get a homozygous recessive from a het to het pairing. You've only got a 25% chance with each egg, and as we all know, Murphy doesn't read statistical percentages (or I wouldn't have had clutches like the one with 9 anery mots, 1 normal mot, all but one of which are females from a statistical 50-50 expectation).

However, from what I can tell there are plenty of forum members sitting on "hets" that should come of age this season. A morphed animal from one clutch proves those parents het (talking recessive genes, of course), a clutch devoid of morphed animals proves nothing...but many clutches from many members without morphed results will be awfully telling. We'll see, one way or another.

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

For those of you waiting to get some kind of financial compensation from Chris... I don't think he believes in doing it... a quote from Chris in another thread...

"And for the record, I think trying to purchase your way out of a honest account of your actions is low, REAL low."

Guess he wouldn't stoop to that level huh?

And another quote from Chris in the same thread...

"TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS SON, NO ONE HAS RUINED THE REPUTATION YOU CLAIM YOU HAD BUT YOU. No one is trying to ruin anything, you've done that yourself by your actions. Why cant you understand that? Stop placing blame where it does not belong and grow up!"

Words to live by perhaps?

I've pretty much watched this thread from its beginning with a very interested eye. A year or so ago, when I first joined Fauna, it was at the height of a certain debate on a leo morph. Chris was one of the main, I think its fair to say, combatants in that debate. Since then I have always looked to see what Chris's comments have been on many subjects and if there was ever a guy who absolutely loved to go medieval on someone for shoddy business or the slightest hint of scam it was Chris.

Its a shame to see the guy who really took people to task for their actions, someone who while sometimes abrasive was really good at taking the "bad" guys to task, become the very thing he used to rally so effectively against...

Shame....

 

[Dr Owens]

I made the decision to cast a vote on the GGC thread based solely on Chris's responses in this thread. They are not the responses of someone I would ever consider doing business with, regardless of the rest of this mess. Illness is not an excuse for just walking away with a shrug and the downright spitefullness of only bothering with his business enough to order his yet-unknown-to-be-anything-but-imaginary minions to drop paid orders to the bottom of the list "cuz he's mad". I've seen years of arrogance from Chris, but this is deplorable, all of it. Like others have said, they don't seem to be too busy to take money in... (emphasis added)

Well said Connie. Quite frankly, I've been a little surprised that Chris' attitude towards the people that he has wronged hasn't drawn more fire. Granted, I haven't read every post in this thread, but I've kept up fairly well, and Chris' "holier than thou" attitude in the posts that I read was quite frankly...disgusting. I mean come on! HE is the one who's ripping people off, but then he has the audacity to act like he's some kind of victim here? Illness or not, his attitude alone is more than inappropriate.

And on the FedEx excuse. I call B.S., as well. I don't believe a word of it.

You're exactly right. Nothing could be further from the truth. My father's manufacturing company ships thousands of pounds of product on a daily basis through UPS, FedEx, and other regional and national shippers. There is no limit to what a company can ship in a day. If a company is shipping more than what one of those panel vans can hold, the shipper will either send another truck or send an 18 wheeler, but either way they most certainly aren't going to limit what you can ship. Such a claim is preposterous.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

JASON, you do have a case, and its called Fraud. It would be equivilant to buying fake diamonds when they were advertised as real. They were sold to you under a false pretence with paperwork for the express purpose of defrauding you of your monies. Granted their may be a time factor because these items have to be bred and the proof is in the offspring, but nevertheless, it is a felony.

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

You know, all other things aside, you have to wonder if FED/EX themselves might not be more than a little unhappy with a business telling customers that the reason they aren't getting shipments on time is because of FED/EX policy? A policy which many have pointed out here as being misrepresented by Chris... I know I would be pretty upset it the buck was being passed on to me unjustly...

 

[KNOBTAIL]

RANDY, I wish it worked that way, but it

does not! Any person here that has given money or who is waiting for a refund will not see a penny. Its really that simple if its pursued civilly. The bankruptcy laws have changed, but only to the credit card companies favor. Not the reptile dealer! You can still file for bankruptcy, and yes it would be more difficult if you owed Mastercard, because the debt will not be forgiven any longer. But this DOES NOT apply to idividual claims for things that relate to us. The answer is criminal, then that open an entirely different ball of wax because you then can move with weight behind your muscle. Take it from me, I ve arrested many for bad checks, through criminal activities, and not because of civil complaints.

 

[NorthamExotics]

Jerry...

Unfortunately, I (and others who own purported hets from TSE) don't have a case until I/we have been wronged and there won't be solid evidence of that for 1-3 years in some accounts.

In the meantime I have offered to keep a list of everyone that has purchased 'hets' from TSE so if the time comes we can launch an action as a unit which will likely carry far more weight than $500 here and $1,000 there. So far I haven't heard from many people. I won't be ashamed to admit that I got taken for a ride if it comes to that. There must be more people out there who performed due diligence and did their homework on the BOI and other places like I did and decided to do business with TSE based on others in the hobby giving them glowing reviews.

I'll admit that my reasons for wanting a list are selfish. I think that I would stand a better chance of retribution if it was with a group. As I've said all along, if my hets form TSE were to prove out, I would personally call Chris and apologize and issue a public notice. I would like nothing more than to end up with a fair and honest transaction under my belt that got blown out of proportion due to (warranted) speculation.

I hate being the patsy but I refuse to sit idly by after the fact. I just want to be prepared to take whatever actions are available when I have proof either way. This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth regarding the hobby, the integrity of internet shopping, and human nature in general.

-Jason Northam

 

[tejasranger]

I just talked to the Cheektowaga Police Dept. In a nutshell they won't pursue my complaint because sick or not, I got snakes. They recommended the FBI, but held out little hope because of the small amount of money involved. He suggested a civil action. I think someone here that sent money, but hasn't received their animals has a better chance at getting their attention. Here is an email I got from the CPD earlier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Capt. John Glascott [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:54 PM
To: England, Robert
Subject: RE: Internet Fraud


Bob

Unfortunately these are difficult situations to handle due to a variety
of jurisdictional problems. We do not have anybody to directly handle
these situations, the best avenue to handle them would be federally but,
due to the volume of cases that come in the Feds have a high threshold
(loss amount) before they get involved.

Due to the nature of the transaction it would be considered a civil
matter and depending on how much your loss is the best I would be able
to do is recommend a civil action being commenced on your behalf by a
local attorney.

Sorry I can't be of more assistance

Captain John Glascott

 

[Dr Owens]

Concerning the shipping limit issue...

Interestingly, I just finished talking to my UPS driver, and I explained to him Chris' claims about being limited in how much he could ship a day. His response was just to laugh and shake his head. He said, "That guy's lying. I don't care if it's us or FedEx, we don't turn down nothin! It doesn't matter if how many packages you have, there is no minimum or maximum." He went on to say, "You can ship 10,000 packages in a day if you want. Believe me, we'll send out as many trailers as is takes to pick it all up! We don't turn down nothin."

So...there you go.

(Please note that the grammer quoted above was his usage and not my own. )

 

[nicolai]

It appears the "TSE forums" is down now as well.

 

[tejasranger]

Here is the link to the Cheektowaga Police Dept. webpage with the ph#'s

http://www.tocny.org/police/

 

[tejasranger]

If you want to see something funny go to TSE's website and click the buy button on anything. I love it.

 

[ravensgait]

does not! Any person here that has given money or who is waiting for a refund will not see a penny. Its really that simple if its pursued civilly. The bankruptcy laws have changed, but only to the credit card companies favor. Not the reptile dealer! You can still file for bankruptcy, and yes it would be more difficult if you owed Mastercard, because the debt will not be forgiven any longer. But this DOES NOT apply to idividual claims for things that relate to us. The answer is criminal, then that open an entirely different ball of wax because you then can move with weight behind your muscle. Take it from me, I ve arrested many for bad checks, through criminal activities, and not because of civil complaints.

Hey was just pointing out that filing bankruptcy wont protect him from having to pay. I think I mentioned before that using the Law was the best way to go as they can order restitution..Randy

 

[Scott Ashton]

Here is the link to the Cheektowaga Police Dept. webpage with the ph#'s

http://www.tocny.org/police/

If enough of the folks who haven't gotten anything for the money they paid contact the PD to file complaints, someone there will take notice. The bigger the scope of the crime and the more money that is involved - the more likely some ambitious detective can make their "nut".

That said, from their website they don't look to be a department equipped for anything more than speed traps and donut runs.

Another option may be the New York State Police:

http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Criminal_Investigation/

 

[KNOBTAIL]

If you are going to notify the Police Dept

it should be done 1. in person, 2 for fraud. It is true that the police dept has limited capabilities with internet fraud, and it would fall under the purvue of the FBI. But it is fraud nevertheless. Especially if you received nothing from an advertised offer for sale. This also could include postal fraud. Which is another avenue to pursue.

With regard to waiting to see if the snakes are in fact "what you paid for", you are correct, because of time restraints you cannot file a lawsuit or a criminal complaint based on the "future", but if you can find others who have had results contrary to what they paid for and received, then your in the drivers seat and as you indicated , form a group , contact the Internet fraud people, and take it from their. Their are no other options here. A lawsuit will be lost, and we do not know how many other creditors may be waiting in line that have nothing to do with herps, but are creditors nevertheless. You may also want to check and see if any judgements have already been issued against Chris personally. That will also tell the tale.

 

[Scott Ashton]

A quick place to start:

The Internet Crimes Complaint Center:

http://www.ic3.gov/