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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Vet Update

Well my friend took her TSE male "het" pied to the vet today and she came back clean of parasites. Just wanted to keep you all updated.

On another note, I will be personally breeding her male het pied to one of my female visual pieds in the fall of 07..... I will keep you informed. :)
 
Poll vote

I guess I should shed some light on a deal I had with chris, since currently I am the only one that has voted I was happy with my deal.
I bought some animals from chris last year.. Two seperate deals.
One was for a lot of crested geckos, the other was for a bunch of breeder leo geckos.
I guess my deal is a bit different as my animals were visuals, and geckos, whereas it seems the stuff not being sent is balls...
Either way, I spent around three grand with chris and all animals shipped next business day from when I gave him money.
Chris bought from me as well, and I believe...his address to ship to was #2 not number six when I shipped.
I will look and see.
TOM
 
Jim, if in fact Chris does file for bankruptcy, which I

am 100% sure that his attorney would not allow him to any additional exposure, it does not matter how much money is owed unless it is in excess of $ 175,000 or maybe higher (not certain with the new bankruptcy laws) then it would go into federal court as opposed to state court. In either case both jurisdiction fall under the Dept of Justice. Depending on the seriousness of the bankruptcy it can be examined by the FBI.

Secondly, once a debtor files for protection, then all legal proceedings will cease, at that point in time, and no additional claims can be filed as the debtor (Chris) will have full protection under the jurisdiction of the TRUSTEE, of the court who would be handling the case. Everything from that point on goes through the TRUSTEE. People looking to litigate would just go to the back of the line. THAT IS WHY IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO ACT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO OBTAIN A JUDGEMENT IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. What happens is this: the umbrella of the bankruptcy court, will put a hold on any judgements from being executed, but , YOU, would be in front of the line! If their are any funds to disperse.

Chris being the kind of manipulator that he is, I am sure has either hidden, or dispersed whatever assets he may have from attachment. But we shall see what happens as time progresses.

I dont see any advantage in forming a group unless it is for a criminal front. That would show that Chris's actions were not an isolated incidence but a habitual method of obtaining monies illegally
 
Honestly, if he hasnt thought of most of what you guys have mentioned, he has the ammo NOW! With everyone talking about all this stuff he could have done or supposedly did do, we're just feeding into his array of possible choices to get away with this drastic scheme. HUSH!!
 
I dont mean the stuff regarding recommendations for expeditious court proceedings, but the rest.. You know what i mean.

For those of you who have the funds available to get an attorney, trust us when we say "GET IT NOW!!"
 
How is getting an attorney going to help someone that has less than $1000 in Chris' pocket? I'm sure the attorney is going to cost more than what he owes. Many of us are just starting out and if most of us had that kind of money laying around we would have just gotten a visual to begin with.

This is the second time I have had this happen to me buying BPs on the internet. The first time, I bought off of a classifed here on fauna but the guy really didn't have any reputation. After that whole fiasco I decided to go with someone with a good reputation and look what happens. This is very discouraging to say the least. The Air force doesn't pay that well to keep throwing $$$ away. :hot:
 
Just so everyone knows, I did a search on erie county records site, and when he filed for the dba he had his home address the same as tse.... french creek drive..or whatever it is.
Also when I shipped animals, it was to the #6, not #2
TOM
 
Chris A.

Chris.... getting an attorney to do anything other than take the money and listen will be nearly impossible for those with hets that may or may not be hets. There is no lawsuit or action that can be filed that I'm aware of for someone who may or may not have done something wrong if there is no proof. It would get laughed off.

I do agree with the possibility of a mole infiltrating the buyers group (hmm... could it be ME?!?!?) and since no one has ever met Chris/Glenn/Patrick/Doug then even a face-to-face meeting wouldn't help at all. Anyone (other than Chris Johnson...lol) have any suggestions about how to combat this?

-Jason Northam
 
Jerry,
Agreed on how bankruptcy works, etc., when it is a legitimate bankruptcy. However, I would not be so quick to assume that Chris already has assets tucked away. He may not have much to speak of, but we do not know that. If he has them, we do not know that they have been hidden away some time ago. He may own property. In all honesty, my belief is that Chris has been very reckless, and did not have a master plan to hide assets. This can all be found out. I still recommend a pooling of resources for a few, as it is the only economical way to go in a civil proceeding, but that will be up to them. Depending on the nature of the claims against Chris, if some can be shown to represent fraud, he may have a more difficult time seeking bankruptcy protection for all of his assets, again, if he has any. Bankruptcy will only protect him from the more standard debtor-creditor relationships, such as those to whom he has not yet shipped snakes. But even then, he may have assets beyond what the courts will protect, and they would be available to creditors. We don't know. Attorneys will advise accordingly.
 
Many of us are just starting out and if most of us had that kind of money laying around we would have just gotten a visual to begin with.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting a joint fund, pool of funds to go after him? Possibly an auction of some type to raise funds for an attorney? Not sure if that would work. If all of this is true though he would be the biggest fraud that I have ever heard of. Maybe your idea is not bad.
 
I have sent out the first mailing list for customers of TSE who have not received the animals that they have paid for. So far I have seven people.

If you did not receive the email but should be on the list, please message me with the pertinent data.

Once we're all in contact we can discuss options on how to proceed.

***BTW I borrowed and modified that from exerpt from NorthamExotics. I hope he doesn't mind.
 
Jason, I beg to differ.

There is no lawsuit or action that can be filed that I'm aware of for someone who may or may not have done something wrong if there is no proof. It would get laughed off
Click to expand...

First off, any suit will take time to put together, and this summer Chris's hets will be proving out. As I said in a post some time back, armed with both Chris's current lack of integrity in filling orders, and then with the affidavits of credible people whose hets did not prove out, you could join the civil suit seeking return of your animals and refunds. If folks have decided Chris has assets to pursue, you could make a claim and likely be included in the same suit. Its not a question of getting damages, just a refund and fees, etc. Civil court is not about "proof".
 
Are you saying that everyone needs to go after him together or should the people that have not recieved their animals and the people that did recieve "Hets" join together? The more people that join together, I would assume that we could keep the price of going after him a little lower.
 
Civil Case Time Frame

Yes, some hets may be proven (or disproven) this summer, but many will not, especially by people who recently purchased het males as an entry into a particular morph. Hets to normals, raise the 50%ers, breed back... obviously not a quick process.

I believe "a preponderance of evidence" is the requirement for judgement in a civil case and that would be up to a jury or judge to decide (depending on the state I suppose). I can't see a favorable judgement until there is a reasonable amount of evidence. Just because Chris/TSE has shown to not be reliable in filling orders doesn't mean that a summary judgement would be issued in relationship to genetics until there was a preponderance of evidence to support the civil claim.

-Jason
 
Derek...

I don't know if the two issues could be put together. It seems a much more cut and dried case when it comes to goods paid for and not received. I would think that the non-delivery of goods would be an easier issue for the courts to decide.

-Jason Northam
 
HELLO EVERYONE, heres the scoop

the object in any civil litigation is to win! If you want to win, file NOW, Chris will NOT show up, and you will have a judgement against him. Small Claims may allow up to $ 3,000. It depends on the state. At least you will have a judgement, which is substantially cheaper than getting an attorney or pooling money that will only advance an attorney's pocket.

Their are no other civil options! Take my word for it, if their are several or several dozen creditors, and Chris files for bankrucptcy protection, it will be over! In all likelihood, if he did have any assests such as a home or a car, and their is a mortgage or a lien on those , then the banks get paid first, and everyone else gets on the line. Its not worth it. The answer as Ive stated is to direct all your energies to a criminal case. That will change the leverage. !
 
Jerrrry....

Are you saying that even if I had no proof whatsoever, just because I file a suit I win because Chris doesn't show?

It sounds as no matter what we file and win against someone if this ilk, we are SOL....

-Jason
 
One other observation

If Chris trys to move any assests such as a mortgage deed, etc. the courts would deem it "self serving" and when found would be attachable as part of the liquidation. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the best you can expect is some personal satisfaction. Money , you can forget about. Between the trustee, the attornies, the banks, the govt, theirs not much left other than revenge. Thats a dish best served cold!
 
Derek unless things have changed you should be able to get some legal advice through the the Air Force. As for getting an attorney in NY hopefully one of you lives in NY or close by. Or just talk to a local one, most in this type of case want to meet and decide if there is a case before charging you. Also they can advise you if they believe criminal charges should be filed.

Folks we here will help as much as we can but for legal advice talk to someone who really knows an Attorney..Randy
 
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