-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)
- Thread starter tejasranger
- Start date
Dennis Hultman
New member
Dennis Hultman said:
I don't know why I keep doing that. I have always known Kelli spells it with in "I" and not "y". That's like the fifth time I have done it. Sorry Kelli.
Ian S.
New member
I disagree completely give em what he deserves, Bob. If I were you,and I'm not cause I was refunded,I'd be carefull with the insults and kick him where it hurts, in the court room.leaftail said:
Ian S.
New member
You have all the right in the world to thumb a nose. You were right then and you are now sista good for you!!lucille said:
Ian S.
New member
Sorry for the continuous posts,late nite!! However in it's own right I feel that Chris had no other basis for his business than to butter you reputables, as some form of retribution for his good guy status. This is only speculation on my part and a darn good one if you ask me. Normally I would not think of such wrong doings from another individual. As it lays out right now thats the only kind thing I've heard of him doing. Unfortunately it seems as though it was opportunistic for him to rally up the good guy points seeing as though he was having so much trouble hear on fauna and with other people within his little undermining.Let's put it this way anyone who ran such an auction for such a phenominal cause would be "OK" in my books. On the record Kelli you are correct in saying that it shouldn't matter who ran auctions for the Hayden fund. The way all folks should have seen it is, "the more the merrier" irregardless who ran it. People got angry?? Thats messed up! 
It is always a possibility as well that they felt that this could have been his sick ways of saying "you owe me one" who knows!! Nobody knows anything about who the real person behind the keyboard is No-body.. 
It is always a possibility as well that they felt that this could have been his sick ways of saying "you owe me one" who knows!! Nobody knows anything about who the real person behind the keyboard is No-body.. 
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
Thank you, Dennis. I appreciate that, and no worries on spelling my name wrong! I'm kinda sorry I brought it up but I felt I needed to explain a couple of things about it.
Thanks Ian.
*No one* deserves to be hurt the bloody way that Chris hurt people. His pleasure was obvious as he tried to destroy people. There are others here that disagree with each other, and disagreement is natural. The sort of bloody and vicious sport he engaged in, and obviously delighted in, is not natural.
I think that looking through the way Chris treated many people in the past, with contempt, hurting them and taking pleasure while doing so, is relevant in analyzing his present behavior. Really, the whole 'you object, you go to the bottom of the heap' deal shows how little he cares for our individual concerns, and is a terrible example of customer service.
Look at the the recent post I copied, showing him lecturing someone else on Fauna about how evil it was to scam people. Really, that is an extremely offensive post under the present circumstances.
The reality is that people have sick snakes, people are out significant amounts of money that they sent in trust to buy a treasured specimen, perhaps a het, to help build their collection.
Keeping reptiles and breeding is all about planning: saving for your foundation breeders, looking forward to making pairs and perhaps getting worthy babies as a result of your careful planning and investment.
Here, people are not only out money, they are out time, many the better part of a year, while they waited to be shipped the animal they had so carefully saved for. They can never get that time back, and it needs to be factored into the damages each of them suffered.
I think that looking through the way Chris treated many people in the past, with contempt, hurting them and taking pleasure while doing so, is relevant in analyzing his present behavior. Really, the whole 'you object, you go to the bottom of the heap' deal shows how little he cares for our individual concerns, and is a terrible example of customer service.
Look at the the recent post I copied, showing him lecturing someone else on Fauna about how evil it was to scam people. Really, that is an extremely offensive post under the present circumstances.
The reality is that people have sick snakes, people are out significant amounts of money that they sent in trust to buy a treasured specimen, perhaps a het, to help build their collection.
Keeping reptiles and breeding is all about planning: saving for your foundation breeders, looking forward to making pairs and perhaps getting worthy babies as a result of your careful planning and investment.
Here, people are not only out money, they are out time, many the better part of a year, while they waited to be shipped the animal they had so carefully saved for. They can never get that time back, and it needs to be factored into the damages each of them suffered.
Dan Lubinsky
New member
First and foremost, I wish all of the best to the victims of Chris' dealings. Having been on the receiving end of his heavy hand at the keyboard (apparently that's the only place there's any heaviness), this whole mess is quite an eye opener. Last year, after gnawing on his rude and often outright threatening remarks I shelled out the measly hundred and eighty five bucks for a polygraph test... gee, I must've studied hard - I passed. Maybe Chris could take one; heck, they might even make a house call if he can't get out of bed. Or, if the cost is an issue he could go on Maury and they'll even pay for it. Hopefully it won't come to paternity tests... " Mr. Piebald, you are NOT the father ".
KNOBTAIL
LORD OF THE FLIES
well LUCILLE, I just find it somewhat
amazing how people could be so "lemurized" by this little nothing! But hopefully this will provide an "eye opening wake up call" and next time, think! If you were to invite people like Chris over to your house for coffee, count the silverware before he leaves!
Basically, you are not invited here to the BOI to be bashed if you feel an opinion is warranted. Their are many Chris-like characters who have a very good command of the English language, and try to beat you into submission until they have completely verbalized you to death. Hopefully this experience with Chris will put an end to an era where someone can come here or any other message site, and think that because of their rhetoric, they can pursuade people that they are right, and you have allot of nerve even commenting!...........Never again.
amazing how people could be so "lemurized" by this little nothing! But hopefully this will provide an "eye opening wake up call" and next time, think! If you were to invite people like Chris over to your house for coffee, count the silverware before he leaves!
Basically, you are not invited here to the BOI to be bashed if you feel an opinion is warranted. Their are many Chris-like characters who have a very good command of the English language, and try to beat you into submission until they have completely verbalized you to death. Hopefully this experience with Chris will put an end to an era where someone can come here or any other message site, and think that because of their rhetoric, they can pursuade people that they are right, and you have allot of nerve even commenting!...........Never again.
tejasranger
New member
leaftail said:
Laura,
As I have said before. You have every right to disagree with my posts. But if you would like to debate the content of my posts then let's do it on a level playing field. Here's what you, Find a scammer, send him $1500 that you will never see again, let him tell you that basically he doesn't give a
, and that his only concern is him, and if you complain, he will put you at the bottom of his list, and then , and only then, can you lecture me on my approach. Chris is a liar and a thief, and if you had taken the time to read all the posts, then you would have found that the most damning evidence of the two facts came from Chris himself, Ok.tejasranger
New member
My Approach to Chris
Chris is someone that thinks he is superior to all that surround him, and that we are barely worthy of his contempt. Just read his emails. He is a bully, and need to get what he is given. You need to keep your foot on his throat so to speak until he surrenders. He replies only to try and keep control over the situation, and it's not working, so he keeps trying. You can see his true self if you look at his old posts, like the ones Lucille posted. His ego will not allow him "not" to reply, when his intelligence or control is challenged. He is a child. That my secret to success with Chris.
DSsuper92 said:
Chris is someone that thinks he is superior to all that surround him, and that we are barely worthy of his contempt. Just read his emails. He is a bully, and need to get what he is given. You need to keep your foot on his throat so to speak until he surrenders. He replies only to try and keep control over the situation, and it's not working, so he keeps trying. You can see his true self if you look at his old posts, like the ones Lucille posted. His ego will not allow him "not" to reply, when his intelligence or control is challenged. He is a child. That my secret to success with Chris.
tejasranger
New member
Fund update
Lizard Lair - 100.00 Thanks, Shelly
Tejasranger - 100.00
Paypal Account = [email protected]
Lizard Lair - 100.00 Thanks, Shelly
Tejasranger - 100.00
Paypal Account = [email protected]
ravensgait
Convoluted Member
Fear of Chris here on Fauna?? The answer to that can be seen in this thread. look how many people were reading this thread early on but didn't post and many of those who did post early were well kind to Chris to say the least..
Some wonder why people are afraid? (Most who've been here a while know that answer) He was well mean to put it bluntly but that wasn't all he had friends here who would help him attack. Chris isn't/wasn't the only one who had his gang here they have come and gone over time. I believe some just didn't want that kind of confrontation and others because they didn't want to be on the outs here on Fauna.
The old Rep power what is now Karma came into play as well, gee don't want to get nailed on their Karma. Since this thread started I've been noticing peoples Karma numbers and it amazes me that I've seen a few who have Karma numbers that are twice their post count. Must have made one heck of a post or two!! Need to do away with that mess it just gets abused.
So yeah there were those afraid to tackle Chris as some have come forward and stated, heck I thought about it before making my first post here.. I'd bet money most did early on. But when it seemed that Chris was on the outs boy did the numbers of people posting in this thread jump.
I think we all need to look at why we post on the BOI ...Randy
Some wonder why people are afraid? (Most who've been here a while know that answer) He was well mean to put it bluntly but that wasn't all he had friends here who would help him attack. Chris isn't/wasn't the only one who had his gang here they have come and gone over time. I believe some just didn't want that kind of confrontation and others because they didn't want to be on the outs here on Fauna.
The old Rep power what is now Karma came into play as well, gee don't want to get nailed on their Karma. Since this thread started I've been noticing peoples Karma numbers and it amazes me that I've seen a few who have Karma numbers that are twice their post count. Must have made one heck of a post or two!! Need to do away with that mess it just gets abused.
So yeah there were those afraid to tackle Chris as some have come forward and stated, heck I thought about it before making my first post here.. I'd bet money most did early on. But when it seemed that Chris was on the outs boy did the numbers of people posting in this thread jump.
I think we all need to look at why we post on the BOI ...Randy
The problem with the BOI is this is a definite fear for people to out a bad guy if that person has been seen as a good guy all along. Regardless of proof, cronies will pile on and intimidate the person who may have a valid argument. Early on in this thread, that is exactly what happened. Hopefully this trend continues with other bad guys. Just because YOU may have done a good deal with someone in the past doesn't mean they can't change and become what Chris has.
scalesnstuff
New member
Lawyers
Depending if you have enough a class action would probably be the best course of action. Problem is this is reptiles and some of the questions that I have read is misrepresenting the animals especially the hets. That is going to be a waiting game too see if the hets produce. Bob Clark was working on a blood test to see if animals are het or not, maybe by now he has it figured out.
Another thing to consider, you would want a lawyer that is familiar with reptiles and the issues that the victims may have. Yes any lawyer can represent the victims but it would be better to have one familiar with the whole het issue and so forth. You would not want a lawyer to get up in front of a jury and give out the wrong info or what not. That would be devastating to the case.
Secondly, if Chris did purchase normal balls to pass off as hets then that should be found at the "discovery", since this involves money his bank accounts could be accessed. If he paid through any bank account it could be traced. If he paid cash then that is another problem. As one member stated, if a person sold Chris 1000 ball pythons and then turned out that they were used in a scam they probably would not want to come forward.
To get all of your ducks in a row, I would see if some of the larger breeders would write a statement on the het breeding and so forth showing what is expected (ie 100% to 100% produces X). Since a het does not show the trait we rely on the genetics of the parents being correct. An Expert Witness would be very beneficial as well, maybe a large breeder near the area that all this takes place.
Since Chris show pics of the parents on his paperwork maybe posting the pics here on fauna might help. Maybe he owns those actual snakes maybe not. But if it is pics of other peoples snakes then maybe some one would say hey wait that is mine.
I looked up reptile related lawyers and so far have only found 2.
http://www.esbenshade.com/services.html
And Brett E Nelson in IN (317) 637-0700
His email is [email protected]
They would be worth giving a call and see if they have any recommendations as to how to pursue this.
Now another thing, (I am not so quick as to scream scam) but if Chris does have these animals and they are hets then the only issue is people not getting the animals or they are arriving sick. If Chris is working on replacing the sick animals then that part is out of the question and you have a small claims issue. If people are waiting on animals and they finally arrive then it is another small claims issue.
I would recommend that any assumptions as to what is going on cease on the forum and move to private emails. Remember Chris can retaliate, if Chris is proven not guilty then he can come back with a suit for slandering.
If this proves out to be a scam then this is worthy of a Law and Order episode. If not then there is going to be a big mess.
I am planning on contrubiting to the fund, I have a small store and do not have a huge collection of breeders so I think I am going to do supplies. Hope that helps.
Depending if you have enough a class action would probably be the best course of action. Problem is this is reptiles and some of the questions that I have read is misrepresenting the animals especially the hets. That is going to be a waiting game too see if the hets produce. Bob Clark was working on a blood test to see if animals are het or not, maybe by now he has it figured out.
Another thing to consider, you would want a lawyer that is familiar with reptiles and the issues that the victims may have. Yes any lawyer can represent the victims but it would be better to have one familiar with the whole het issue and so forth. You would not want a lawyer to get up in front of a jury and give out the wrong info or what not. That would be devastating to the case.
Secondly, if Chris did purchase normal balls to pass off as hets then that should be found at the "discovery", since this involves money his bank accounts could be accessed. If he paid through any bank account it could be traced. If he paid cash then that is another problem. As one member stated, if a person sold Chris 1000 ball pythons and then turned out that they were used in a scam they probably would not want to come forward.
To get all of your ducks in a row, I would see if some of the larger breeders would write a statement on the het breeding and so forth showing what is expected (ie 100% to 100% produces X). Since a het does not show the trait we rely on the genetics of the parents being correct. An Expert Witness would be very beneficial as well, maybe a large breeder near the area that all this takes place.
Since Chris show pics of the parents on his paperwork maybe posting the pics here on fauna might help. Maybe he owns those actual snakes maybe not. But if it is pics of other peoples snakes then maybe some one would say hey wait that is mine.
I looked up reptile related lawyers and so far have only found 2.
http://www.esbenshade.com/services.html
And Brett E Nelson in IN (317) 637-0700
His email is [email protected]
They would be worth giving a call and see if they have any recommendations as to how to pursue this.
Now another thing, (I am not so quick as to scream scam) but if Chris does have these animals and they are hets then the only issue is people not getting the animals or they are arriving sick. If Chris is working on replacing the sick animals then that part is out of the question and you have a small claims issue. If people are waiting on animals and they finally arrive then it is another small claims issue.
I would recommend that any assumptions as to what is going on cease on the forum and move to private emails. Remember Chris can retaliate, if Chris is proven not guilty then he can come back with a suit for slandering.
If this proves out to be a scam then this is worthy of a Law and Order episode. If not then there is going to be a big mess.
I am planning on contrubiting to the fund, I have a small store and do not have a huge collection of breeders so I think I am going to do supplies. Hope that helps.
NorthamExotics
New member
Bert..Just for Clarity..
..TSE did not put pictures of the alleged parents on the genetic 'guarantees', only a picture of the animal being sold. No one has ever seen pictures of his breeders. There were/are pictures on the TSE website of a pastel and an albino... that's it.
-Jason Northam
..TSE did not put pictures of the alleged parents on the genetic 'guarantees', only a picture of the animal being sold. No one has ever seen pictures of his breeders. There were/are pictures on the TSE website of a pastel and an albino... that's it.
-Jason Northam
Chameleon Company
New member
A few too many generalities for me ...
All are welcome to their opinions, but must also expect some disagreements of the civil type. As to Randy's views:
I think that a closer view of the first 24 hours worth of posts here that were supportive of Chris might not have been characterized or motivated by "fear", but rather just the honest opinions of people who had done business with Chris and had no problems, and that is normal for all such BOI threads where some good business has been transacted in the past. As for silent viewers, that's entertainment ! It is comical though to go back and read the first 2-3 pages, and this from post #21 by Brian Klein needs some follow-up?
Liver? Crow? Just kidding Bob, as I know you based your view on your experiences there, but perhaps were a bit hasty to offer up a menu.
Jamie Glass, I can' disagree with this statement ......
......., but it does need some clarification. Situations and the related problems of "outing" a perceived "good guy" are not unique to the BOI. In fact, they are probably easier here and now, in the BOI and other electronic media, than they were 10 years ago. Most of the initial posts that erroneously told Bob that things would work out were respectful, and those that challenged him a bit were not over-bearing in my view. As for "intimidation .... that's exactly what happened", I don't think Rob (Tejas Ranger) was intimidated in the least ! While the thread was started late on the 15th, by the morning of the 16th, Cathy had posted about her negative situation with Chris, and you Jamie had also made a very good post right after hers which was not favorable to Chris, and the tone against Chris gained momentum rapidly within 24 hours of the thread starter, which to me was about as quickly as folks became aware of it. In my assessment, the BOI did its job, did it quickly, and then sustained it for a very appropriate amount of time.
As threads of over 500 posts go, I would bet that this one set a record for civility, with likely the least number of warning points awarded, although I don't know that as fact. If I had to suggest a "fear factor" in this thread, it would be that many of Chris's cohorts stayed well clear as things unfolded, but would be more likely to allay that to "wisdom", and not fear.
All are welcome to their opinions, but must also expect some disagreements of the civil type. As to Randy's views:
I think that a closer view of the first 24 hours worth of posts here that were supportive of Chris might not have been characterized or motivated by "fear", but rather just the honest opinions of people who had done business with Chris and had no problems, and that is normal for all such BOI threads where some good business has been transacted in the past. As for silent viewers, that's entertainment ! It is comical though to go back and read the first 2-3 pages, and this from post #21 by Brian Klein needs some follow-up?
Liver? Crow? Just kidding Bob, as I know you based your view on your experiences there, but perhaps were a bit hasty to offer up a menu.
Jamie Glass, I can' disagree with this statement ......
......., but it does need some clarification. Situations and the related problems of "outing" a perceived "good guy" are not unique to the BOI. In fact, they are probably easier here and now, in the BOI and other electronic media, than they were 10 years ago. Most of the initial posts that erroneously told Bob that things would work out were respectful, and those that challenged him a bit were not over-bearing in my view. As for "intimidation .... that's exactly what happened", I don't think Rob (Tejas Ranger) was intimidated in the least ! While the thread was started late on the 15th, by the morning of the 16th, Cathy had posted about her negative situation with Chris, and you Jamie had also made a very good post right after hers which was not favorable to Chris, and the tone against Chris gained momentum rapidly within 24 hours of the thread starter, which to me was about as quickly as folks became aware of it. In my assessment, the BOI did its job, did it quickly, and then sustained it for a very appropriate amount of time.
As threads of over 500 posts go, I would bet that this one set a record for civility, with likely the least number of warning points awarded, although I don't know that as fact. If I had to suggest a "fear factor" in this thread, it would be that many of Chris's cohorts stayed well clear as things unfolded, but would be more likely to allay that to "wisdom", and not fear.
scalesnstuff
New member
Well that knock that idea out.NorthamExotics said:
I think a lot of people are focussing on the late delivery of the animals, the UCC says specific things about delivery and remedies, y'all have heard me talk about the Uniform Commercial Code that governs sales in every state except Louisiana.
At this point people have been waiting, many of them, past a reasonable time, they are not receiving requested refunds, and even if they do eventually receive something they have suffered damage by the amount of time it has taken.
It might be helpful to put together a statement while events are fresh in your memory and print out whatever proofs or corroboration you have; and file it safely even if you are not at this time taking action..
At this point people have been waiting, many of them, past a reasonable time, they are not receiving requested refunds, and even if they do eventually receive something they have suffered damage by the amount of time it has taken.
It might be helpful to put together a statement while events are fresh in your memory and print out whatever proofs or corroboration you have; and file it safely even if you are not at this time taking action..
KNOBTAIL
LORD OF THE FLIES
Bert, whatever has been discussed on this forum that relates to Chris are things that I am sure he is aware of . As much as some may appreciate some of your suggestions, I think that it would be a bit overboard at this stage to worry about a lawyer concerning himself with knowlege about Reptiles or hets, etc. Guaranteed, they will find the easiest route to getting judgements.
The first ones will be those who paid, and received nothing. They just have to provide a receipt (proof of payment) they do NOT need paypals claim. What they DO NEED, is to show that the money was sent to Chris/TSE and thats it. I think we both know Chris will not show up in court, and if he does, it will be with his own attorney! Looking to possibly cut a deal.
Secondly, those who received sick or animals that were not as they were ordered, do NOT have to wait until the animal dies or produces as the purchase indicated. It would follow that if he lied and commited fraud on monies that he took without shipping, then he lied about the hets as well.
Finally, if the attorney is worth his weight in Gold, he will find a pattern of Fraud, and if enough people have similar complaints, it is no longer an isolated situation, but should be brought to the DA's attention in Erie county.
If you look at the amount of venom that is being addressed in this matter regarding Chris and TSE, it will encompass, not only the authorities, but the tax people as well. So eventually even though the system grinds slowley, it grinds fine, nevertheless, and it will put an end to Chris once and for all.
The first ones will be those who paid, and received nothing. They just have to provide a receipt (proof of payment) they do NOT need paypals claim. What they DO NEED, is to show that the money was sent to Chris/TSE and thats it. I think we both know Chris will not show up in court, and if he does, it will be with his own attorney! Looking to possibly cut a deal.
Secondly, those who received sick or animals that were not as they were ordered, do NOT have to wait until the animal dies or produces as the purchase indicated. It would follow that if he lied and commited fraud on monies that he took without shipping, then he lied about the hets as well.
Finally, if the attorney is worth his weight in Gold, he will find a pattern of Fraud, and if enough people have similar complaints, it is no longer an isolated situation, but should be brought to the DA's attention in Erie county.
If you look at the amount of venom that is being addressed in this matter regarding Chris and TSE, it will encompass, not only the authorities, but the tax people as well. So eventually even though the system grinds slowley, it grinds fine, nevertheless, and it will put an end to Chris once and for all.