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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Ian S. said:
: In actuality Bob Clark just shipped supposed hets over sea's for Chris correct?? If that is the case someone may want to send good ol' Bob C. a link to this thread... no?? What a shame it would be for his stellar reputation to be dampenned by an instance such as this:
I don't think it will even be a blip on Bob's reputation. It appears all Bob did was help facilitate international shipping, so it would be like saying Fed-ex's reputation will be dampened because they are shipping (or not shipping, most of the time) Chris animals. IMHO we don't even need to be using his name in any fashion on this thread.
 
reptilebreeder said:
I don't think it will even be a blip on Bob's reputation. It appears all Bob did was help facilitate international shipping, so it would be like saying Fed-ex's reputation will be dampened because they are shipping (or not shipping, most of the time) Chris animals. IMHO we don't even need to be using his name in any fashion on this thread.
Well I'm pretty sure that fed ex didn't breed the het ball pythons. Anyways there's nothing on that but a third party account. There is no solid information on it at all! Which is what I'm getting at. It may be worth looking into for the sake of folks that purchased "hets." People who have hets want to document as much results from the breedings as possible. :)
 
Ian, Bob just took the animals from Chris and shipped them. He had nothing to do with producing them ETC ETC.

This is why it's unlikely that anyone who sold Chris Hets or normals will come forward. people take things out of context here and next thing you know !!!! Randy
 
I understand. I never implied that Bob Clark had anything to do with breeding the snakes. I thought the initial implementation was concurring that TSE (AKA* Chris Johnson) sent hets to Bob Clark for him to work with, in his personall collection.
 
The way this situation is adding up as more and more people come forward it may be one of the biggest scams in the Reptile Hobby history!!! I wonder if "Chris Johnson" is actually his real name?
 
While I know it has been speculated on more than once, I think it highly likely that Chris Johnson is his real name, and while the scam was perpetuated over a period of several months this past season, it was not the product of a long term sophisticated scam. If it were, he would have held it together longer and made more off the het racket, since the assumption of a fake name means all was a scam. Chris wasn't stupid, but he was a far cry from being that clever as well.

I want to correct, or modify, an impression I gave earlier int he thread where I made the process of obtaining local judgements (within the states of each plaintiff) seem a futile pursuit. I have been communicating with Derek in PM's as I have been able to obtain better advice, as he pursues real legal restitution for the group, and he has this info and will be looking into it further. But it is possible that each plaintiff could obtain an in-state judgement against Chris and TSE, and then have the judgement "domesticated" within the NY court system so as to hound Chris there, where he may have a few assets, or may accumulate some in years to come. "Domesticating" judgements involves some paperwork, and likely a small fee, but may be a reasonable option. Beyond this, it is something that Derek will pursue, as will I as I am expecting some communications from a NY attorney in the coming days. I put this here also as a reference for others who may have to explore an out-of-state small-claims-court pursuit in the future. People who would take your money, believing that they can do so with impunity, need a wake-up call. He who laughs last ........
 
" Orders are legally binding contracts. When placing an order you confirm that you have read, fully understand, and agree to these terms of sale. You also agree to pay all expenses including legal fees, court costs, and attorney wages paid by the seller when attempting to collect on a breech of these terms. We will not be held responsible for customers who wish to ignore our terms of sale. All sales are final."

I don't recall seeing all of the legal BS on TSE's TOS until fairly recently. I know a couple of folks have screenshots of the TOS, but I'm pretty certain that they were taken AFTER the change. I don't suppose there's a chance anyone has a copy from BEFORE those changes were added?? :ack2:
 
Chameleon Company: While I know it has been speculated on more than once, I think it highly likely that Chris Johnson is his real name, and while the scam was perpetuated over a period of several months this past season, it was not the product of a long term sophisticated scam. If it were, he would have held it together longer and made more off the het racket, since the assumption of a fake name means all was a scam. Chris wasn't stupid, but he was a far cry from being that clever as well.

Jim, I think he made more than enough off of his racket. Look at all of the ones that came here with their losses. Thats not counting all the ones that are still out of their cash that have not posted here, or anywhere else.

Looks like big $$$$. IMO.

Chris wins the highest award!! :toiletcla

Hey Chris, you ready to grab bubbas pocket? He will be glad to see you show up in the pen!! :rolleyes: :rofl:
 
Cathy,
I cannot confirm one way or the other whether this was added recently or was always there. In a comical way, I have to hope it was added recently, as it would give new depth to Chris's "grasping for straws". Not only is it of zero legal consequence, but also shows Chris's desperation now that he is facing the real law and a justifiably angry mob. How things change! Just two months ago he thought taking other people's hard earned money was like taking candy from a baby, and that he probably could just maneuver and slip and slide out of it all if and when the day of reckoning came. Say hello to the new reality .... you fooled them once, but twice? I don't think so. Oh, and before the night is over, 100,000 views. Take a bow to infamy Chris !
 
Chameleon Company said:
I want to correct, or modify, an impression I gave earlier int he thread where I made the process of obtaining local judgements (within the states of each plaintiff) seem a futile pursuit. ........

Jim,
Several of the statements of law you have given may meet disagreement.
I know you are trying to help and I know as this process evolves you are learning a lot.
I caution everyone that getting a word correctly said, or being aware of the UCC and local law can definitely mean the difference between winning a judgment and losing one and I want each of you to win.

There is a lot to be said for learning all you can, by reading about the law, by understanding your rights and remedies. But I would absolutely point out to everyone here that it is good to get the sound advice of a practicing attorney if you can, when you need it, advice that is tailored to your case...
 
I couldn't agree more with this Lucille

Several of the statements of law you have given may meet disagreement.

Not sure what the rub is here, but I don't recall a single "statement of law" in the entire thread, much less in my post? With so much "new law" involving the internet out there, as well as plaintiffs in so many different states, you could hire attorneys that would disagree, much less us out-house types (I'll be #1, don't matter ..... I'm free!). I think that pooling some funds and having Derek get input from NY attorneys is the best beginning move. I also think that all semi-decent advice that can be thrown Derek's way, for him to decide what to ask of any attorney he talks to, is also a plus. Speaking only for myself, attorneys are like mechanics ... some are priceless, and some aren't worth the ten-cents of advice (or repairs) that you paid a ton of money for. Almost any "statement of law" will meet with disagreement, as even the Supreme Court is rarely unanimous, often 5-4, and would remind all who venture into a lawyer's office for the first time to remember that. All "advice" given was with the maximum intent of giving anyone sitting with an attorney all of 10-20 seconds worth of content to pursue, nothing more. I don't recall a single post that ran contrary to getting good legal advice. Its one thing to offer advice, semi-educated or otherwise, but to take shots at others? Is there an ego thing going on somewhere! Are we at 100,000 yet ?
 
Cat_72 said:
I don't recall seeing all of the legal BS on TSE's TOS until fairly recently. I know a couple of folks have screenshots of the TOS, but I'm pretty certain that they were taken AFTER the change. I don't suppose there's a chance anyone has a copy from BEFORE those changes were added?? :ack2:

There is a little utility that one of my attorneys turned me onto a while back that some people may find useful. Its called the WayBack Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/topshelfexotic.com

It proves useful and determining what a website may have looked like in the past. But it isn't foolproof, so take it for what it is worth.
 
There are no guarantees on shipments delayed or mishandled by carriers. Claims regarding delayed or mishandled packages must go through the carrier.
After reading their TOS, I am surprised they had ANY customers. If Fed Ex or UPS crushes a package of ball pythons, the customer has to file a claim for damages? That is crazy, I do not think either would reimburse 1 cent for a killed reptile, they might reimburse for shipping costs.
 
Thanks.

Thanks to all who sent me kind replies and emails. I have contacted my credit card company to contest the charge. Also, I did use Paypal. However, I couldn't get past their 45 day policy. I am thinking that Chris orchestrated that one on purpose with the "bad weather" charade and lack of communication.
 
Nate said:
Thanks to all who sent me kind replies and emails. I have contacted my credit card company to contest the charge. Also, I did use Paypal. However, I couldn't get past their 45 day policy. I am thinking that Chris orchestrated that one on purpose with the "bad weather" charade and lack of communication.

I believe you are very right. Sorry you didn't get any help from Paypal.
 
Jim

putting aside any bank or auto liens, whoever gets a judgement first and has it recorderd will be entitled to first grabs of payment if their is any. Once recorded it will be posted through the 3 major credit houses (TRW, etc).

But I can assure you, that is not going to happen. It is very possible that Chris may have already secured protection from creditors by filing for bankruptcy. The problem is that no one knows about it yet......................

Once a supboena is issued to Chris, by mail or served in person, it is at that point that Chris would have his attorney advise those representing the plaintiff, that Chris has been granted protection under the umbrella of the courts. Nothing further will commence after that!

Once it moves into that stage, then it does not matter if its 1 creditor or 50 creditor because the dollar amount becomes the dominating factor in the bankruptcy proceedings.
 
Green Sheet

Down here we have what's called a green sheet. It has the info for anyone that is building a house, selling a house, married, divorced, arrested, bankruptcy, etc. It is biweekly I think. If any one lves in the same county as Chris these are usually easy to get a hold of.
 
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