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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Tammy HTH said:
I don't know that I'll ever see the money that I put into the TSE so called "hets", but I am not going to sit back and take it without trying. I sent Chris money, I did receive 1.1 ball pythons, but are they actually 100% het High Contrast Albinos that is stated on the paperwork? I know I don't think so. I personally feel like I got ripped a big one! Did I take the time to fill out the deposition? Yes I did. Did I send in proof of my payment to Chris/TSE? Yes I did. Did I take it a step farther and add extras to the package I sent to Inv. Brown? You betcha! Copies of emails, copies of the het paperwork, even a copy of the shipping label that was on the box. If I felt there was anything that would help Inv. Brown I sent it. It cost me a few extra pennies for postage but I thought it was well worth it. Like I said before...I may never get back what I feel I deserve, but I sure would love to see Chris get what he deserves.

Come on folks! You are already sitting at the computer reading this, fill out the deposition and send it in. I swear, it doesn't hurt.
Click to expand...

Amen, Tammy!!!!!

Chameleon Company said:
If you are unsure how to do it, PM Terry or someone else who can get you all the info. Happy hunting.
Click to expand...

Um....Terry? Forgive me, but Terry who? I'm not sure who you are talking about here, Jim.

Copenhagen Reptiles said:
Are there no others with 04 hets in the incubator ?
Click to expand...

Well, the 2 other clutches I know of that WERE incubating, besides yours, had the expected sad outcome....all normal babies. From there, I don't know....I think most of the 04's were not up to size yet to be bred this year, but will be going this next season.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Oooops ! PM Cat ... she'll get you straight !
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:raspberry

I was thinking maybe you combined "Tammy" and "Jerry" to get Terry, lol.

Derek Jones has been doing a LOT of work on this, he would be a good person to contact as well.
 
Bob, I emailed and asked Derek for the list of email addresses of those affected yesterday, to send out the latest news I had gotten from Det. Brown, but have not gotten the list from him yet. I'm sure I will get it today.

No one is playing "I've Got a Secret" here Bob.....I just got an update YESTERDAY, for God sakes, and I don't have the time to send you each a personalized email, nor do I have everyone's email address. As soon as I get the list, I will send it out.....

As was discussed here before, not all of the information will be posted here, as it could very well be damaging for Chris to know everything we know, and everything that is going on. I'm just trying my best to help out EVERYONE and do what is right to NOT hinder the case.....I'm sorry if I'm not doing it quickly enough for you. I'm trying.
 
Cat,

You might want to ease up on chewing my ass off. The "I've Got a Secret" comment was directed at Joe (Ex-Con) Haggard. But, I don't think it is right to be creating a tiered system of complaintants, those with info, and those without. I don't think it wise for everyone to contact Inv. Brown of their own, so we have to depend on Derek and you for updates. And as I have warned Derek before, I would take everything that Joe Haggard say's with a grain of salt, because he and the truth aren't on a first name basis.
 
tejasranger said:
Derek and Cat,
When will you be updating the rest of us on the latest TSE info? This isn't "I've Got a Secret".
Click to expand...

Forgive me Bob, but how am I to know that the part of your post that says "This isn't I've Got a Secret" is aimed toward someone else, when the post specifically is directed toward myself and Derek??

There is no "tiered complainants", there have been no real updates until now, just bits and pieces of information that IF they were accurate, could make a BIG difference.....but I see no sense in spreading rumour as fact until it was decided by the proper authorities whether they were even relevant.

Damnit Bob, I don't know what the hell I'm doing any more than anyone else here, perhaps less. If I'm going to get my ass chewed for just trying to help out EVERYONE here, I'll gladly step away because I don't need any more damn grief, especially from those I'm trying my damnedest to help.
 
I have to agree with Bob

I have pretty much felt the same sentiment as Bob about the secret info. If the info is tangible enought to present to law enforcement than it should be made public. Technically if Chris violated some law that you heard rumur of. How could he hide anything or change an act he has or supposedly has broken. If anything it may help prevent a re-occurance of the "secret".

Think how much we all would have appreciated of the guy who posted on here that received a parasite infested suposed het CBB morph, instead of Chris J just letting him return it. I for one would have NEVER buoght from TSE if I had read that.

Chris Rouille
 
viridisnakes said:
Technically if Chris violated some law that you heard rumur of. How could he hide anything or change an act he has or supposedly has broken. If anything it may help prevent a re-occurance of the "secret".
Click to expand...

If that act of fraud that been rumored he committed is going to be combined to secure charges against him it may in fact encourage him to run.

It wouldn't even matter if he's been told not to leave the state pending the completion of this investigation. If he realizes that his goose is cooked he'll run. What would you do as a bonafide thief with charges pending against you? Prepare cookies and milk for the arresting officers when they decide to show up? I'm thinking he'd leave the gas on and the lights off and hope they arrived at midnight. Click*boom.

Quite honestly...with even the little information given out so far...even eluding to the fact it exists....if he were a smart thief he'd have his bags packed now and ready to go. He's been smart enough so far so I just cant see the sense in buying him Gucci luggage and travel accessories to help him out even further.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
 
Cat_72 said:
Bob, I emailed and asked Derek for the list of email addresses of those affected yesterday, to send out the latest news I had gotten from Det. Brown, but have not gotten the list from him yet. I'm sure I will get it today.

No one is playing "I've Got a Secret" here Bob.....I just got an update YESTERDAY, for God sakes, and I don't have the time to send you each a personalized email, nor do I have everyone's email address. As soon as I get the list, I will send it out.....

As was discussed here before, not all of the information will be posted here, as it could very well be damaging for Chris to know everything we know, and everything that is going on. I'm just trying my best to help out EVERYONE and do what is right to NOT hinder the case.....I'm sorry if I'm not doing it quickly enough for you. I'm trying.
Click to expand...

Sorry Cat, I forgot. I wrote myself a note so I don't forget again.

Bob and Chris, I have very limited time to devote to this. I am doing this on a voluntary basis and I felt my time was better spent collecting information and passing it along to the proper channels rather than worry about informing everyone of every small little detail. After countless brick walls, I have finally been able to get someone to listen and help. There has been no big news to pass along lately.

If there are those of you out there that feel like I am not doing enough, fast enough, then feel free to volunteer your time and resources to help out. It's a little discouraging to spend numerous hours on this, only to get so little response (12 dispositions) and appreciation in return.

Whenever I get news that I feel is important I send it out to those on my mailing list and some of it I post up here. There has been nothing new, other than the Drivers License picture, in the last few weeks.
 
critical bill said:
If that act of fraud that been rumored he committed is going to be combined to secure charges against him it may in fact encourage him to run.

It wouldn't even matter if he's been told not to leave the state pending the completion of this investigation. If he realizes that his goose is cooked he'll run. What would you do as a bonafide thief with charges pending against you? Prepare cookies and milk for the arresting officers when they decide to show up? I'm thinking he'd leave the gas on and the lights off and hope they arrived at midnight. Click*boom.

Quite honestly...with even the little information given out so far...even eluding to the fact it exists....if he were a smart thief he'd have his bags packed now and ready to go. He's been smart enough so far so I just cant see the sense in buying him Gucci luggage and travel accessories to help him out even further.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Click to expand...
He's already got plenty enough reason to run, he either will or won't. These hints may or may not give him that push, but I don't really see how posting anything is going to make it worse.
 
As much as I would love to see Chris run,

its not going to happen!
I think if you check with Det Brown, the only depositons that may carry some weight are those where monies were sent with nothing in return. I dont think a case can be made for goods received even if the offspring did not turn out as expected or paid for.

I am sure that Chris has already contacted an attorney and is just waiting to see what may befall him as we move forward. I am also convinced that if Chris does get arrested or indicted he will also file for relief through a bancruptcy which would halt any potential civil litigation. So the advantages of not running would benefit him more. This type of a crime is more toward the white collar. It was motivated by greed and the ability to steal through machinary that was faulty (and still is) in this industry.

At his age, and the type of crime that he may be charged with (which is still undertmined) does not warrant a "most wanted" category. Although I am sure some people would love to get their hands around his little throat.
 
I feel confident that with things in Joe "I wouldn't know the truth, if it bit me in the ass" Haggard's hands that the NYSP are more likely to arrest Him, than Chris. But maybe Joe has redeemed himself by becoming a jailhouse snitch. That's "sn" itch, I don't know about his sexlife in prison.
 
I feel confident that with things in Joe "I wouldn't know the truth, if it bit me in the ass" Haggard's hands that the NYSP are more likely to arrest Him, than Chris. But maybe Joe has redeemed himself by becoming a jailhouse snitch. That's "sn" itch, I don't know about his sexlife in prison.
Click to expand...

Well this was helpful. Bob, if you want to start a thread about Joe Pythons do so. I believe this one is about Chris Johnson-TSE. You should know you started it.
 
As much as I would love to see Chris run,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

its not going to happen!
I think if you check with Det Brown, the only depositons that may carry some weight are those where monies were sent with nothing in return. I dont think a case can be made for goods received even if the offspring did not turn out as expected or paid for.

I am sure that Chris has already contacted an attorney and is just waiting to see what may befall him as we move forward. I am also convinced that if Chris does get arrested or indicted he will also file for relief through a bancruptcy which would halt any potential civil litigation. So the advantages of not running would benefit him more. This type of a crime is more toward the white collar. It was motivated by greed and the ability to steal through machinary that was faulty (and still is) in this industry.

At his age, and the type of crime that he may be charged with (which is still undertmined) does not warrant a "most wanted" category. Although I am sure some people would love to get their hands around his little throat.
Click to expand...

As much as I would like the opposite to happen I would have to agree with Jerry on this one. This would be one of those instances where I would be extremely happy to be proven wrong, although I highly doubt it. For a person to prove in court that he has bred heterozygous animals and they did not produce what they were supposed to is almost impossible. Is it going to be his word against someone else's, and there's very little proof that can be presented. Pictures of animals copulating? How many subsequent breedings? Pictures of eggs hatching? Which animals?

There's a better chance for fraud charges for those that haven't received what they paid for. In all the years here in the BOI I remember only one instance when a court of law awarded compensation to a woman for having been sold fake heterozygous for albino ball pythons (at least that's what we were told here). Maybe some of the old timers remember the case of the name of the people involved. It was close to 4 years ago.

Regards.
 
Dan, can you imagine

an assistant DA attempting to explain morphs to a jury! I dont think so. Thats a lost cause. It can easily be construed as bad luck on a first batch. In either case, If Det. Brown after 6 months can only muster up 12 depostions, I am not to sure how they will proceed.

Some insight into whats happening would be great!
 
How do I file a disposition?
I purchased 1.2 Het Albinos from him in Early 05.
Still haven't attempted to prove them out ...
At this rate I think it would just be better to breed my pastel male to the good looking normal females -.-


Please email me at
[email protected]

And tell me how I may file a disposition.
Thank you.
 
For What it is worth

I noticed Det. Brown in here yesterday. Evidently he is keeping up with the thread.
 
Leon,

I dont think you will be able to file a deposition that will be acceptable unless you paid Chris and received nothing. If you received anything even if it turns out to be not what you expected, you may be out of luck.

But its always better to check with people who are dealing directly with Det. Brown.
 
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