• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Chameleon Company said:
Bill,
I believe that the onus is on Bob or whoever holds the money to contact all who gave money, not the other way around. Some participants here may feel that it is OK to make assumptions about the proper disposition of things. Yet any attorney will tell you to dot every "i" and cross every "t". With regard to "giving credit", of course, as we all know, members of the BOI do not make assumptions nor draw hasty conclusions .... what was I thinking, eh? :rolleyes:
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Jim I agree that Bob should contact those that Donated and find out what should be done with the $$
However, now a somewhat opposing view. Perhaps with every scam reported here and validated, Rich could set up a little "click here to donate" option for viewers to help ease the financial burden on that particular victim. Or if a victim decides to solicit donations for their blunder, hopefully we won't scoff at their appeal for charity since ....
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Ok Jim you definatly have me at a lack of words on this one, only because that would open the door to Scammers to enter saying " Hey I can rip people off and guess what ?? The community will fork out cash to help who I stole from". This is one of those Black and White areas Like I said about a million pages ago, Chris, Did open new doors here.

All that said, the charity shown by Members here regarding this particular case, especially by those who suffered no loss, is commendable.
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Yes I do Agree, It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, Like yester-year when someone in a community fell on hard times everybody pulled together to help out, Boy do I feel old remembering things like that. :rofl:
 
Hey Man !
My point about "click here to donate" was only to represent the increased value of being very above board with all, which I believe has always been the intention here anyway. I would think it possible that the impression scammers would be left with by any community charity effort, as happened here, would be that the victims can organize, which is what the scammer would fear. In the end though, it will come down to whether this effort does finally land Chris of TSE in court somewhere, even if belatedly. While I do not know the current particulars, it is also possible that if Chris is ever charged with criminal fraud, you may then be able to interest an attorney into representing your interests to the DA up there, and that would cost a few shekels. If Chris escapes accountability, in the end it may signal that the only expected recourse is "buyer beware", which would be a disappointment in light of the efforts made here.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Hey Man !
My point about "click here to donate" was only to represent the increased value of being very above board with all, which I believe has always been the intention here anyway. I would think it possible that the impression scammers would be left with by any community charity effort, as happened here, would be that the victims can organize, which is what the scammer would fear. In the end though, it will come down to whether this effort does finally land Chris of TSE in court somewhere, even if belatedly. While I do not know the current particulars, it is also possible that if Chris is ever charged with criminal fraud, you may then be able to interest an attorney into representing your interests to the DA up there, and that would cost a few shekels. If Chris escapes accountability, in the end it may signal that the only expected recourse is "buyer beware", which would be a disappointment in light of the efforts made here.
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Oh ok sorry for the misunderstanding. :raspberry
 
My concern with this approach is that it treats only the pain (relief for those who have been scammed) but does little to address the root cause (the scammers). While those who have felt the pain certainly deserve relief, I think we all agree that we would also like to see justice served. If we set up a relief fund, despite our best intentions, the path of least resistance would be to treat the pain rather than the cause.
This may also unwittingly send the message that we are willing to accept a certain amount of scamming as a normal part of this hobby/business.
 
Please bear in mind that this is still deep within my busy season with my own animals, and time is in very short supply. YOU all will have to do the legwork. I can set up a private password protected forum, but YOU all will have to decide who will be in charge of it and have the keys. So figure out exactly what you want, and then tell me. If it involves custom programming or something excessively complicated, then that will be a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Secondly, after past fiascoes involving donations, auctions, or whatever for good causes, this site will no longer be involved in such things for any reason whatsoever. I am certain most of you will understand this position after past events.
 
The only thing I can say Tom is the scamming would really never come to an end. But by doing home work on who you are doing business with, Granted over the last year good guys went bad, and some scammers came back under new names, and there may never be an answer to this scammer thing, We don't live in a perfect world, and answers don't always present themselves, But we have to just be extremely carefull with the internet. I know this really bites, but what other choice do we have if we want to continue using the internet to conduct business
 
I would like to see it where only certain people would be allowed to vote on decisions though. I don't think a password would work because as was already mentioned, someone would give it out. Perhaps there's a way to make it that everyone who wants to can read it but only certain users have permission/ability to post comments and vote in polls to make the decisions. These people would of course be the ones who got ripped off. A bigger problem is finding someone who is able to devote the time and has the computer knowledge to make this all happen. Kudos to Rich for giving us a place for this to happen and we all understand how it is to be busy so I don't think anyone will fault you on that. Who is gonna do it though? -Chris
 
An idea or bad gas...I don't know.

Buy a member forum here on fauna and entitle it TSESCAM. The forum can be specifically for the situation, alerting victims to progress and ability to vote on polls. It can also be moderated which makes it easy to remove nonsense posts.
 
cahrens said:
I would like to see it where only certain people would be allowed to vote on decisions though.
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Chris who would have the votes ? just the people Chris ripped off or everybody who has something vested in this ? [/quote]
I don't think a password would work because as was already mentioned, someone would give it out.
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The password thing would be on a honor system and only those on the list would allowed to post there and the only way to get on that list would to produce facts and proof of being ripped off by TSE
Perhaps there's a way to make it that everyone who wants to can read it but only certain users have permission/ability to post comments and vote in polls to make the decisions. These people would of course be the ones who got ripped off.
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Here is where I have to disagree I think this be done on a privite level much Like the Mod forum that is why suggested password protected.and when is all said and done it will be posted on the Boi. Ok so only the people who got ripped off by Tse will have a vote ? What about those that went the civil route ?after all these are the people who stepped up to try and help those that ripped get something back
A bigger problem is finding someone who is able to devote the time and has the computer knowledge to make this all happen. Kudos to Rich for giving us a place for this to happen and we all understand how it is to be busy so I don't think anyone will fault you on that. Who is gonna do it though? -Chris
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Hey Chris How about you doing it :)
 
I have a list of those who contacted me. I also know which ones participated and which ones were just along for the ride. I can moderate and contact those who participated with the password.
 
SVT Snake said:
I have a list of those who contacted me. I also know which ones participated and which ones were just along for the ride. I can moderate and contact those who participated with the password.
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Thank you Derek for stepping up, Now we are moving along,But that still leaves the question Who will be able to be provided with that pass word just those who were ripped or everybody that stepped up to help also ? Please don't take this wrong in anyway, I'm just curious :)
 
Bill,
As far as I'm concerned, everyone who spent money gets a vote. Whether you bought and received fake hets, paid and got nothing at all, or donated money for the civil/criminal pursuit, you get a vote.

The password thing would be on a honor system and only those on the list would allowed to post there and the only way to get on that list would to produce facts and proof of being ripped off by TSE
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This would be fine as long as someone was moderating this and removing posts and votes that were from people that shouldn't have the password. Hopefully I'm wrong and nobody would give the password out and this wouldn't even be an issue.

Ok so only the people who got ripped off by Tse will have a vote ? What about those that went the civil route ?after all these are the people who stepped up to try and help those that ripped get something back
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I agree 100% that the people who donated money should get a "say".

Hey Chris How about you doing it
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I wish I could but I have neither the time nor the computer knowledge to make this happen. This is 1 reason you'll never see me criticize anyone else who volunteers for something like this. I know I certainly couldn't do a better job, probably much worse, so I appreciate any effort someone is making.

Derek,
Is the list you have the people who paid and got nothing or does it include those of us who did receive animals? As I remember, there were 2 people with lists. Ones who got nothing and ones who got fakes. -Chris
 
Ok, Chris that works for me :) And after thinking about it maybe the password thing is a good thing for the voting and posting, and everybody can read to see the progress of what is going on ....so we don't seem like a secret Cliche' :rofl: Derek if I can be of any help let me know, Thanks again.
 
cahrens said:
Bill,
Derek,
Is the list you have the people who paid and got nothing or does it include those of us who did receive animals? As I remember, there were 2 people with lists. Ones who got nothing and ones who got fakes. -Chris
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The list I have is for those that paid and recieved nothing. I'm not sure who was collecting the information for those that recieved "hets". I would need that list as well.

Once I have a master list compiled, It would be easy to police the thread for posts by those that shouldn't have the password.
 
A member forum within fauna will allow for easy moderation while keeping things organized and all in one place. It wont even draw much attention as its not a very busy section to begin with only three or four member forums.

Rich might even donate the space temporarily to see that this project doesn't get spread out all over the place and create a huge mess.
 
Jason Northam was the "keeper" of the list for those who bought the supposed hets. I just looked back at the most current list, and I know it is not complete, but it is a good start. Just from that list, there was almost $24,000 involved. I also have saved many emails and PMs from folks who have contacted me in the past about getting the deposition, or just get information on how to proceed that I don't believe are on either list, and could contact those folks as well.

I think going the forum route would be by far the best option, and as I said before, I am more than willing to help to coordinate things, send out emails, make phone calls....whatever needs to be done on this.
 
If Rich will allow it I will donate my forum to y'all. Job obligations as well as time devoted to helping to settle my Mom's estate have prevented me from being very active there, my forum might as well be used for a good cause; I think there are about 10 months left.
 
OK, Looks like we are on the right road here. Yippy Skippy :) As for your offer Lucille, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, But thank you for your offer just the same.
 
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