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Tortoise Health

deborahbroadus

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I had a tortoise when I was a child and decided to get one again not too long ago. I made some mistakes along the way, but one mistake I did not make was ignoring people that gave me good advice on his health. Being that it was sooo long since high school, I admit that I had forgotten the rudimentary information about UVB and glass (duh). However, I did read some books on their dietary needs and habit/heat/humidity requirements. With so many people beginning to get into tortoises because it's "cool" it's important to know their diet and health requirements.

Many people have seen pyramiding shells on turtles and some have begun to think that it's natural for their shells to grow like this, but it is NOT. One thing that we need to recall when taking care of these awesome animals is that they need calcium, and some foods/unavailability of UVB interfers with their ability to absorb or use calcium.

A turtle whose shell is not smooth but a series of pyramiding (this is excessive Keratin growth (bumps) of the scutes is suffering from excessive consumption of dietary protein (too much protein in the diet). In actually, as I learned, no high protein veggies: peas, beans alfalfa or meat should be in their diet. As a matter of fact, some veggies commonly thought to be ok are not. For instance..while potato is ok, the leaves are toxic (The Tortoise and Turtle Feeding Manual, A.C. Highfield, 2000 p. 15). some books also say that some greens are not good. Research can ensure that we are taking care of these animals correctly.

Notice the clear healthy eyes and smooth shell (he did have the beginnings of pyramiding when I brought him). He has lived outside all summer and due to circumstances out of my control, will be wintering in the house. I have set up his environment as closely as possible to the requirements. There are two UTHs underneath, and I open the cage daily for 2 or 3 hours of UBV lighting. He eats turtle food mashed with the fruit of choice (no seeds) and gets a veggie to chomp on. There is also a cuttlebone in the cage with him.

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Hello

Hello Deborah,

Good for you taking in this tortoise!
What type of basking light? Just curious. :D Great he is getting daily sunlight outside. I hope that he keeps on improving for you.
How long have you had him for?


Tracie
 
Drache613 said:
Hello Deborah,
Good for you taking in this tortoise!
What type of basking light? Just curious. :D Great he is getting daily sunlight outside. I hope that he keeps on improving for you.
How long have you had him for?
Tracie

Hi Tracie!

Your expertise is much needed. I have been reading books and researching, but first hand knowledge is always welcome..(p.s..when you get a chance stop by RC...I believe there are a couple of questions that only you can answer :yesnod: )

The basking light that Samwise has is a UV-B 05 (small bulb) He had the whole summer outside, in a pen. However, he either escaped or someone walked off with him (I have an acre of land and I cut that grass twice looking for him!! :eek: )anyway as it got cooler he ended back up on my doorstep, but by this time I had given up hope on him, so I did not have anything prepared for the winter :ack2: .

I orginally had the light shining though the glass (duh). ThankfullyI was reminded of my elementary science/biology lessions and I transferred the light to a lamp that I shine into the aquarium 2/3 hours daily with no screen or glass to filter the rays.

I currently have him in a 27 gallon aquarium turned on it' side for maxium traveling room. The aquarium has two UTHs on the bottom; the larger uth is controlled by a thermosat. On the hot end is also a pool which I drilled a hole to put in an air tube connected to an air pump to keep the water circulating and not get stagnant (the uth also keeps the water warm..he gets in there often).

Around the aquarium I have wrapped insulation to keep him from trying to walk though the glass and to hold heat inside the glass (I read that if the temps are not warm enough that food will go right though them and prevent them from absorbing what they need from it...I am happy to say he's not having a LOOOOT of bowel movements)

Samwise's shell is smooth, and his colors are bright, he has no watery eyes, in fact, he is very alert and comes to the aquarium door when I come home, he also eats from my hands (I also have the book that lists all the toxic foods..but if there is anything less known please pull my coat. He basically eats prepared tortoise food with calcium/vitamin mixture sprinkled and mashed with mango, or banana or a mixture. He gets grapes, carrots and sliced apple (never any seeds in anything)

Several books have differing opinions on greens, so I haven't given him any thing other than what he eats in the yard.
I have had Samwise since September 16, 2007 I believe.
 
Hello

Hello Deb!

I will stop by RC later today, thanks, to see what is going on. :D

Great that your tortoise's shell is smooth & has no deviations on it now. He must be doing much better from the time that you got him until now. I am happy to hear that he isn't having any loose stools, either.
The diet that you have him on sounds fine. Does he get a little bit of protein such as tofu, pelleted parrot type chows, sardines with bones maybe. They need around 5% or so of protein. Adults can be fed 3-4 times a week with hatchlings being fed daily. He could also have some cereals like bran flakes or corn flakes for a bit of protein, too.
Do you have any idea how old he might be, just guessing?
The type & brand of UVB light, can you see it stamped anywhere on there? It is a UVB & basking light? How are you taking the temps, with a digital probe?
The basking should be roughly 90-95 for optimal digestion & behavior but you should definitely have a cooler area of around 70 or so as well. So he loves his heated water area, that is awesome.
Alot of people will use mercury vapor bulbs for tortoises for heat & UVB combinations. The best ones are Megaray, & T-rex active UV heat. I would use the 100 watt though so you can keep it at 12 inches or 14 inches away.
I look forward to more pictures & updates on him. He is in good hands with you. :D

Tracie
 
Thanks for the information, I'll take care of this immediately when I get home. I am pretty certain what I have is probably a zoo med bulb; I'll check when I get home to verify. I do have a red heat bulb shining though the glass for tropical feeling heat. I haven't measured the temps lately; the little white boxes that I had in there got wacked out from the humidity and Samwise sitting on them didn't help. Samwise destroys every thing..he can't help it..his shell just has to go where he goes. He tries to be graceful and for his bulk he succeeds...nevertheless, probes placed on his dirt do not stay...and putting them under the dirt does not give an accurate measurement of the temp on top of the dirt. (AHHH, I forgot I had a temp gun!!) lol will check when I get home.

The salesman told me that he was roughly 5 years old.

I have been terrified to give him ANY protein but, I'll start giving him some, how does one measure this? I do have a quaker parrot, who is mostly on seeds (trying to change HIS diet too...I brought him and his feeding habits were pretty much set by the petstore), but so many kinds of seeds are toxic to red-foots that I haven't even been tempted.

I will post pics regularly so that you can see if anything needs changing before a problem develops. :)
 
Hi!

Hi! I have a couple questions. I think my tortoise has begun pyrimiding since i got him from the pet store :shootfoot . I know i can stop the pyrimiding but can i reverse some of the damage thats been done? Also If i have a uvb bulb going during the day and i have a redbulb during the night to keep it warm and toasty. is this adiquit lighting? thanks :)
 
Hi Baybay, there are a few people that are more knowledgable than I, but I have done a lot of research so I can try and help you find the answers to your questions.

First, I am not sure what damage you are talking about. Could you describe and post pictures? We will try and find the solutions if there is one. Someone else with more experience will chime in later. :)
 
Hello

Hello,

Definitely pictures would be helpful. Are you providing good quality UVB for him during the day to help out with the pyramiding any?

Tracie
 
Hello

Hello Deb,

How is your tortoise this morning? So, around 5 years old huh?
Did you measure the temps yet, if so, were they pretty good then?
Here is a feeding list.
It will at least give you an idea of feeding anyway. I would definintely start with very low protein, especially since he is an adult, he doesn't need much.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/webdiet.htm

Is it a Russian Tortoise? If so, here is a good site as well:

http://www.russiantortoise.org/russiantortoisediet.htm

Let me know how he is doing.

Tracie
 
Hi

:) I will try to post some pictures of mate later on today. thank you for all your help i am sure my tortoise will benifit from all your knowledge.
 
Hi

these are some pictures of mate when i first got him about a year and a half ago.
 
:shrug01: Sorry about my previous post it didnt seem to post the pictures corectly. i cant copy and paste so how should i post them :D
 
The best way is to open an account at Photobucket (it's free).
Upload your pictures from your computer to your account,
Then click the IMG slot assigned to the picture, IMG slot -that's the last one. (this will automatically copy the image)
Paste in your posting spot..and EREKA!

Hopefully you can follow these directions.
 
Thank you so much for all of your help. Now hopfully this will work. If this does, these are pictures from when i first got mate 1 and 1/2 years ago!
nayscamera101.jpg

nayscamera105.jpg
 
Drache613 said:
Hello Deb,

How is your tortoise this morning? So, around 5 years old huh?
Did you measure the temps yet, if so, were they pretty good then?
Here is a feeding list.
It will at least give you an idea of feeding anyway. I would definintely start with very low protein, especially since he is an adult, he doesn't need much.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/webdiet.htm

Is it a Russian Tortoise? If so, here is a good site as well:

http://www.russiantortoise.org/russiantortoisediet.htm

Let me know how he is doing.Tracie


HI!
That's what the sales man at Afishcondos of Baltimore told me at the Chantilly, VA show (he was an impluse purchase) :eek: He's a Red-Foot Tortoise. I have visited that site. I promise you I have researched..that site made me sad..those babies with their shells...hopefully more people will research. But honestly, before I got Samwise, I thought turtles were supposed to have lumpy shells! :( There's not a lot of everyday education on these animals.

Look at his eyes, he's SO intelligent. He comes to the door of his cage when I come home, his eyes follow me around the room, and he eats from my hand and actively comes to me when I open the cage door and not to get out..just to come towards me for a scratch or treat.

Samwise11212007002.jpg


Samwise11212007001.jpg


I measured his temps with the temp gun and as I thought, because one is large and on a thermosat and the other is smaller the temps are 92/80. There is a red light over head on the cool side to provide basking temps on the shell and there used to be a large hide and a large basking platform (from outside) in there, but really, I felt he was so crowded he didn't even have room to turn. That's one of the reasons that I have the insulate around the tank..to give him a feeling of security.

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Samwise11212007003.jpg


I am trying to find the mercury vapor bulb but I will more than likely have to order online. His diet exactly is:
ZooMed Natural Forest Tortoise food with which I mix different fruits and veggies from the approved list in the book The Tortoise and Turtle Feeding Manual by A.C. Highfield. This food is fed weekly and sprinkled with Herptivite and Rep-Cal. His shell is rubbed with Turtle Vitashell monthly. So far, I give him 2/3 hours daily under the ZooMed light..*it's either ZooMed or Reptisun...there are no words, and I didn't keep the box.

Samwise11212007.jpg


I know he will live for a long time, my son is going to take over if necessary.

Do you think I should take the dirt out of there and put rocks?
 
HI

Mate is a cherry head red foot otherwise known as a dwarf red foot.
 
http://www.petco.com/caresheets/turtles/Tortoise_CherryHead_Redfoot.pdf

This link directly below has some interesting information in the lower half of the article about tortoise shell diseases.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=17&cat=1797&articleid=2700

I came across the above link, I am looking for evidence that previous damage can be reversed...and I am waiting for Tracy :)

In the meantime, I thought it would help us to understand exactly what pryamiding was..and perhaps the answer could be found in there? It is certain that changing a bad diet would be the first step in stopping any further damage. :yesnod:

In another part of fauna..someone was nice enough to copy and paste this information....

22) What is pyramiding?
[Andy Highfield] Excessive quantities of protein can seriously impair the calcium metabolism, and in addition can lead to massively accelerated growth and early sexual maturity. This is readily observed in many captive-bred hatchlings, where 2-year-old specimens raised on high protein diets frequently weigh four to five times the weight which they could reasonably expect to attain in the wild, demonstrate abnormally advanced sexual behavior and, almost invariably, **deformed pyramid-like scutes and grossly distorted carapaces. This latter effect is even seen in cases where otherwise adequate levels of calcium and vitamin D3 have been provided.

**I would need someone else to explain this..some are saying that it can possibly be heditary?

In severe cases the carapace is weak and bulging and the horny shields or scutes are raised and pyramid-like especially along the central vertebral line. Radiological examination reveals gross distortions and separation of the underlying bone as well as poor bone density.

The solution is not to provide excessive quantities of protein and to ensure that mineral and vitamin levels are carefully balanced and are available in sufficient quantities.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/f...---------------------------------------------
Too much protein (plant or animal) is the most well documented cause for pyramiding. There are accounts of wild tortoises that exhibit pyramiding because of high protein foods in their diet. High protein diets are also physically stressful and are believed to damage the kidneys in addition to contributing to the stacked look

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/whatcausespyramiding.htm
 
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