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Bad Guy Touch of Class Reptiles

Olexian Pro said:
These are pictures of the organisms I found

mail


This is a picture of the snake that died taken 12/6/2009

mail


mail


mail


These are pictures of snake that is still alive and receiving medical therapy taken on 12/6/2009

Let me know if you still cant view these. I may have to post them on an alternative web page and provide a link so that all can see. I do not know why these are not showing up on here.
Click to expand...

Not showing up on my computer!
 
Olexian Pro said:
Ed, I can appreciate your saying I should have shipped the animals right back. Unfortunately, the animals were both in critical condition and would have surely died in transit. One has already died. While communicating with Kelvin I have been working diligently with my veterinarian (given that I am only a student) to stabilize them so they would be healthy enough to survive the return trip. Not doing so would be a guarenteed death sentence for the snake and given that I was refused a refund already I have no doubt that the status of obtaining a refund would not have changed even with the animals on their door step. I base this on our communication when they attempted to infer that my collection was the cause of this disease and refused to accept their return.
Click to expand...

I would have done the same in your shoes.
 
ForkedTung said:
The complete failure of the sole owner of TOCR to address this thread ( Assuming he got the email from Jason and Alex told him as well.) speaks more about the company than anything.
Sometimes what isn't said speaks volumes....the silence is deafening.
Click to expand...

While I am NOT absolving the owner of responsiblity I didn't want to place full blame on the owner just yet.

Different scenarios could have played out:

1. Employee has a grudge against owner..comes to bad mouth him..but owner did not pack and ship that box.

2. Shipper could have made a switch

3. Owner told shipper (per his statment, "I did what I was told to do." to make the switch.

I am looking at the facts and what I am seeing is:


* An employee packed the box AND shipped it.

* The OP apparently did not receive the snake advertised so contacted the owner.

* Employee does not divulge the conversation between himself and owner (if owner questioned him about the contents of the box).

*Employee gets online bad-mouths his boss, claims innocence and inablity to do anything to satisfy the OP.

YET...who packed the box, who handled the animal last? Was the packing and shipping supervised by the owner? Did the employee have an opportunity to pull a switch?

Is the employee telling the owner that he shipped exactly what he was told to ship? How is the owner responding to that?

Does the owner know that the employee is here dumping the whole situation on his lap?

Here I am seeing we apparently have a "middle man" on whom the whole thing hinges..the person that packed and shipped the snake.

Given the particulars about the OP, let's assume his story is true and he has nothing to gain by lying (he's paying for Vet bills!)

We are back to who packed and shipped the box.

At this point, the owner may be taking his employee's word that he packed and shipped the proper snake and it had no issues. OTHERWISE, they could both be dirty.

This is just a hypothesis based on what I am reading....:reddevil:
 
deborahbroadus said:
While I am NOT absolving the owner of responsiblity I didn't want to place full blame on the owner just yet.

Different scenarios could have played out:

1. Employee has a grudge against owner..comes to bad mouth him..but owner did not pack and ship that box.

2. Shipper could have made a switch

3. Owner told shipper (per his statment, "I did what I was told to do." to make the switch.

I am looking at the facts and what I am seeing is:


* An employee packed the box AND shipped it.

* The OP apparently did not receive the snake advertised so contacted the owner.

* Employee does not divulge the conversation between himself and owner (if owner questioned him about the contents of the box).

*Employee gets online bad-mouths his boss, claims innocence and inablity to do anything to satisfy the OP.

YET...who packed the box, who handled the animal last? Was the packing and shipping supervised by the owner? Did the employee have an opportunity to pull a switch?

Is the employee telling the owner that he shipped exactly what he was told to ship? How is the owner responding to that?

Does the owner know that the employee is here dumping the whole situation on his lap?

Here I am seeing we apparently have a "middle man" on whom the whole thing hinges..the person that packed and shipped the snake.

Given the particulars about the OP, let's assume his story is true and he has nothing to gain by lying (he's paying for Vet bills!)

We are back to who packed and shipped the box.

At this point, the owner may be taking his employee's word that he packed and shipped the proper snake and it had no issues. OTHERWISE, they could both be dirty.

This is just a hypothesis based on what I am reading....:reddevil:
Click to expand...
Right Deborah! Almost everyone of those questions posed by you could be cleared up if the owner...
 
deborahbroadus said:
While I am NOT absolving the owner of responsiblity I didn't want to place full blame on the owner just yet.

Different scenarios could have played out:

1. Employee has a grudge against owner..comes to bad mouth him..but owner did not pack and ship that box.

2. Shipper could have made a switch

3. Owner told shipper (per his statment, "I did what I was told to do." to make the switch.

I am looking at the facts and what I am seeing is:


* An employee packed the box AND shipped it.

* The OP apparently did not receive the snake advertised so contacted the owner.

* Employee does not divulge the conversation between himself and owner (if owner questioned him about the contents of the box).

*Employee gets online bad-mouths his boss, claims innocence and inablity to do anything to satisfy the OP.

YET...who packed the box, who handled the animal last? Was the packing and shipping supervised by the owner? Did the employee have an opportunity to pull a switch?

Is the employee telling the owner that he shipped exactly what he was told to ship? How is the owner responding to that?

Does the owner know that the employee is here dumping the whole situation on his lap?

Here I am seeing we apparently have a "middle man" on whom the whole thing hinges..the person that packed and shipped the snake.

Given the particulars about the OP, let's assume his story is true and he has nothing to gain by lying (he's paying for Vet bills!)

We are back to who packed and shipped the box.

At this point, the owner may be taking his employee's word that he packed and shipped the proper snake and it had no issues. OTHERWISE, they could both be dirty.

This is just a hypothesis based on what I am reading....:reddevil:
Click to expand...

I dont see how i have talked bad about Kelvin. I said his desicion was wrong. I have no "GRUDGE" against Kelvin. Why would I ship other snakes than the ones he set aside? When i shipped the snakes they were fine. Kelvin himself set them aside. Once Jason paid i packed and shipped the same snakes he set aside. After Jasonss first claim i showed the email to Kelvin and ever since then he took over. Your making it seem like i sent a snake with all sorts of dieases on purpose becuase i have a "grudge" on Kelvin. This is not so. I dont know what is so hard to believe here. My only involement with this issue is that i packed and shipped the snakes set aside by Kelvin for Jason. After that i have nothing to do with what happened between Kelvin and Jason. Many companys have employees that pack and ship animals set aside by the owners. What im getting by reading peoples responses is that, I intenionally shipped out sick snakes to Jason, which is not true.
 
I do think it is a bit unnecessary to get in to deep conspiracy theory. (Although I have seen some interesting turns on here, but it is rare). I like to think the best and that everyone intended to do everything open and honestly. I don't think you pulled a "bait and switch" on your boss. I thought it was silly when it was suggested Jason pulled a swap on the snakes, and I think it is silly to think you would intentionally not ship out the snakes you were asked to.

And while I certainly agree that it is speculation on hand placement in the photos, your testimony is you would not have shipped snakes "looking like that." We can't even see if there was anything at all there, even if it was not as bad. Did they look "perfect" when they were sent? Handling a snake like that for an ad photo really does seem to serve no benefit but to cover something.

And I will still end by saying the biggest kicker with this company is how poorly this was handled when the customer was unhappy. While I would hesitate to buy anything after seeing how the snakes arrived, I would not have bought WC emeralds to begin with and I hope they were not kept near captive bred animals. So the "close the book" on this company comes much more with the fact the OP is stuck with dieing animals that are costing more money each day, and the seller is saying "oh well" and trying to make it seem like it is his fault.
 
SoLA said:
I do think it is a bit unnecessary to get in to deep conspiracy theory. (Although I have seen some interesting turns on here, but it is rare). I like to think the best and that everyone intended to do everything open and honestly. I don't think you pulled a "bait and switch" on your boss. I thought it was silly when it was suggested Jason pulled a swap on the snakes, and I think it is silly to think you would intentionally not ship out the snakes you were asked to.

And while I certainly agree that it is speculation on hand placement in the photos, your testimony is you would not have shipped snakes "looking like that." We can't even see if there was anything at all there, even if it was not as bad. Did they look "perfect" when they were sent? Handling a snake like that for an ad photo really does seem to serve no benefit but to cover something.

And I will still end by saying the biggest kicker with this company is how poorly this was handled when the customer was unhappy. While I would hesitate to buy anything after seeing how the snakes arrived, I would not have bought WC emeralds to begin with and I hope they were not kept near captive bred animals. So the "close the book" on this company comes much more with the fact the OP is stuck with dieing animals that are costing more money each day, and the seller is saying "oh well" and trying to make it seem like it is his fault.
Click to expand...

Alex, no one is saying you did anything. If you reread, you will notice that I posted it is a hypothesis.

As such, it's JUST a THEORY/HYPOTHESIS (could have happened).

Sola: I have been on here long enough to see people presumed "innocent" turn out to be the worse of the bunch.

No one is above suspicion in my opinion.

I guess it will really boil down to..are the snakes advertised/purchased the same as received?

Is this a "dormant" disease and shipping accelerated it?

*I am bored so my mind does work like that when I have placed before me mysteries such as this. :D
 
Hello,

My name Kelvin Soto and I am owner of Touch of Class. I saw and sepreated the snakes before my emp[olyee shipped the snakes. They emeralds was perfect. I will not permit or allow an animal that is sick to be sent out, for it to be returned to me. All my animals are de-womred an guranteed eating. Jason, why did you not tell us right when you recieved the snakes? Like our term say. If it was sick why did you not return the snake? We have many emaralds and would have sent you another one. Why would you take the snake to the vet or do examinations on it to waste more money than you spent when you simply could have returned them and i send you another one. Also the picture that is shown by Jason only shows a photo of the snakes neck. We sent a snake that was Green, Yellow, and White. The picture he is sending is a total green snake. Jason, again i ask to you, Why did you wait over 2 days? when all you has to do was send an email the day you recieved then snake and we would have sent you another one. WHy would you pay for an examoination? YOu should have sent us an email and we would have sent you another one. THis is why reptile buisness are how they are, you are working with a new company but we having doing this for long time. I do not wish to speak of this anymore. If you would have told us the same day and we would sent you new snake. Also to an email that was recieved by Donnie Alverson, threating my company. I have not been doing reptile shows cause things have not been selling. Nex time I in show, Donnie Please you come to table of mines and tell me what was said in the email and so you can see the animals we offer.

-Kelvin Soto
Owner of Touch of CLass Reptiles
 
TouchofClass said:
Hello,

My name Kelvin Soto and I am owner of Touch of Class. I saw and sepreated the snakes before my emp[olyee shipped the snakes. They emeralds was perfect. I will not permit or allow an animal that is sick to be sent out, for it to be returned to me. All my animals are de-womred an guranteed eating. Jason, why did you not tell us right when you recieved the snakes? Like our term say. If it was sick why did you not return the snake? We have many emaralds and would have sent you another one. Why would you take the snake to the vet or do examinations on it to waste more money than you spent when you simply could have returned them and i send you another one. Also the picture that is shown by Jason only shows a photo of the snakes neck. We sent a snake that was Green, Yellow, and White. The picture he is sending is a total green snake. Jason, again i ask to you, Why did you wait over 2 days? when all you has to do was send an email the day you recieved then snake and we would have sent you another one. WHy would you pay for an examoination? YOu should have sent us an email and we would have sent you another one. THis is why reptile buisness are how they are, you are working with a new company but we having doing this for long time. I do not wish to speak of this anymore. If you would have told us the same day and we would sent you new snake. Also to an email that was recieved by Donnie Alverson, threating my company. I have not been doing reptile shows cause things have not been selling. Nex time I in show, Donnie Please you come to table of mines and tell me what was said in the email and so you can see the animals we offer.

-Kelvin Soto
Owner of Touch of CLass Reptiles
Click to expand...

Wow! You seriously need to work on your spelling and sentence structure!
That post made my head hurt!:ack2:
 
Wow...what I am seeing in summary is...if you would have done things just a little differently, then I would have helped you, but since you decided to do what you felt was in the best interest of the animals and only contact me as soon as you could...I really can't help you. That isn't what I would have done. I would have helped you, I really would have. Riiiight...

Again, this is a shame.
 
You're saying that this animal's condition developed in 2 days' time? Which one is it? Is Jason lying to scam you, or did he just wait to long to notify you of the garbage he received?
 
Hey everyone, Jason here,

For those of you who had trouble viewing the pictures I now have them posted on an external website avilable at:

http://sites.google.com/site/olexianpro/

I will work on posting them on here for the third time so that all of you can view them, but for now they are available to the public at this address.

Also, as SoLa pointed out, he has personally seen my collection and attests that I do not own any tree boas, or even tree pythons for that matter. I was very excited to receive these individuals because they would have been my first. Accusing me of switching them is absurd. Also, the questions that Mr. Kelvin Soto repeatedly asks have been already answered in the emails I provided for all of you to see. Those which have not, he is posing for the first time today. The emails that I have posted contain all of our communications except one that contained my billing information and one that Alex sent me today. If Mr. Soto has additional emails I would love to see them posted on here so that he can attempt to demonstrate that I have refused to cooperate. Sadly he has no such information, and additional emails other than those I mentioned do not exist. This is why I posted our communications for all to see. This is the same continual problem I have encountered in my communications with Mr. Soto and it is the reason I was hesitant to just return the animals to him without receiving his promise to provide a refund. As I stated, I am a veterinary student. I swore an oath to protect animal welfare and to preserve public health. Sending sick animals that I know are dying if a potentially contagious disease endangers both public health, and the welfare of the animals I know he sent to me in the condition depicted. Even suppose I were to send him the animals back, what guarantee would I have that he wouldn't just turn around and try this scam again, leaving me with no proof, or evidence of what had happened between us. Also the reason I did not contact him on the night the animals were received is because I was called into the university on an emergency call and I did not respond because I spent the entire night and much of the next day caring for a patient (which is my responsibility over my personal affairs) that was critically ill and dying at the UGA Zoological medicine ward. This is a 24 hour emergency clinic and as a student I do not have the luxury of not showing on behalf of my patients. I did not return home until late the following day. Mr. Soto ignored this when I explained it to him in the email I posted for all of you to see. This was out of my control. Also, Mr. Soto is right. The snakes in the photo were bright green and yellow. This is my problem with the entire transaction. Can someone please explain to me why the snakes I received fail to resemble the animals in the photo Mr. Soto Provided? As an honest hard working student I am really curious how I could have overlooked such detail? Oh, I also forgot to mention, I have a registered veterinary technician who works in the anesthesia department at the University of Georgia who personally witnessed me removing the animals from their container. I am prepared to ask her to post as well if additional proof is necessary. Though I feel sufficient evidence has been provided I would be more than happy to keep the proof coming! I know they are long winded but please read the emails I posted and you will notice that Mr. Soto struggles with attention to detail. This is why I so carefully maintained record of our communications, as this became very evident to me early in our conversations. Thank you for reading.
 
TouchofClass said:
Hello,

My name Kelvin Soto and I am owner of Touch of Class. I saw and sepreated the snakes before my emp[olyee shipped the snakes. They emeralds was perfect. I will not permit or allow an animal that is sick to be sent out, for it to be returned to me. All my animals are de-womred an guranteed eating. Jason, why did you not tell us right when you recieved the snakes? Like our term say. If it was sick why did you not return the snake? We have many emaralds and would have sent you another one. Why would you take the snake to the vet or do examinations on it to waste more money than you spent when you simply could have returned them and i send you another one. Also the picture that is shown by Jason only shows a photo of the snakes neck. We sent a snake that was Green, Yellow, and White. The picture he is sending is a total green snake. Jason, again i ask to you, Why did you wait over 2 days? when all you has to do was send an email the day you recieved then snake and we would have sent you another one. WHy would you pay for an examoination? YOu should have sent us an email and we would have sent you another one. THis is why reptile buisness are how they are, you are working with a new company but we having doing this for long time. I do not wish to speak of this anymore. If you would have told us the same day and we would sent you new snake. Also to an email that was recieved by Donnie Alverson, threating my company. I have not been doing reptile shows cause things have not been selling. Nex time I in show, Donnie Please you come to table of mines and tell me what was said in the email and so you can see the animals we offer.

-Kelvin Soto
Owner of Touch of CLass Reptiles
Click to expand...

Not only do you have to work on your spelling, but you perhaps need to make an appointment with an Optometrist! The pictures he posted were green, yellow, and white! (at least on my computer screen!)


Randal Berry
 
lanceheads said:
Not only do you have to work on your spelling, but you perhaps need to make an appointment with an Optometrist! The pictures he posted were green, yellow, and white! (at least on my computer screen!)


Randal Berry
Click to expand...

:iagree:I am with you Randal. What I saw was a very sick looking yellow, green and white snake and another of the same colors that was dead.

It sure took the owner of Touch of Class a long time to get on here to respond at all, and when he does, he leaves us all shaking our heads because it is hard to make out what he is even saying.
I believe he is saying that the OP did not contact him quick enough to be worthy of any help or recourse on this issue. At least that is how I would take it. That does not fly with me though, because these problems did not develop in two days.
The OP is definitely more concerned with the welfare of the surviving animal than the seller is, that much seems obvious. This is a real shame and Touch of Class is a place I would be leery of purchasing from.
 
In all fairness, the name of the company is Touch of Class. It's not like they're claiming to have lots of it to throw around. Sorry....couldn't resist.

In my opinion, Mr. Soto has already shot himself in the foot for allowing these animals to be shipped. Mr. Estrada has done likewise even if he was only doing as he "was told". If I was told to leave my integrity at the door each time I stepped into my place of work, I'd be looking for a new job!

The only way Mr. Soto can avoid blasting his other foot off is to step up like a man, and make restitution on both the cost of the animals and veterinary bills.
 
"Leery," after seeing Jason's case mapped out on his website, Touch of Class Reptiles could bring that blue P. baroni I was interested in down to $15 and I would not even consider it. I specialize in Latin American snakes, and these guys seemed to have some nice stuff with some nice pictures. I honestly am upset seeing this. The things that usually catch my attention are species that are already limited enough, I don't like to add another name to someone I need to avoid at all costs.

And another note: Has anyone seen a solid green (patternless) Emerald Tree Boa? Maybe they do exist, but that sure isn't what Jason posted.
 
hey everyone,

I have asked the anesthesia tech who witnessed the animals being removed from their containers to create a profile and to make a post on Fauna Classifieds concerning her opinion of their condition upon receipt. She is currently waiting for her account to be approved so she can post on this thread. Unfortunately, she leaving for the day and cannot access a computer, but I anticipate we will be hearing from her in the next 24 hours. Please understand that as one of the educators at UGA, her schedule is far less flexible than mine, given the level of responsibility she maintains. On her behalf I ask for your patients until she has been approved/available to post. Thank you.
 
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