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Bad Guy Touch of Class Reptiles

deborahbroadus said:
:ack2: It surely looks like the one that was sold: I must have mistaken this for the one that was sold to them. Cause the one you are HOLDING doesn't look much like the one he has.

image001.png
Click to expand...


Markings wise, I thought the one being "held" in that picture looked somewhat similar to the snake that was still alive. I'm not saying they are definitely the same just that I can't see anything to say they are definitely /not/ the same. The both seem to have fairly "thin" white banding...
Even if they are the same though we don't have info on when that sales photo was taken?
 
ophidile said:
Markings wise, I thought the one being "held" in that picture looked somewhat similar to the snake that was still alive. I'm not saying they are definitely the same just that I can't see anything to say they are definitely /not/ the same. The both seem to have fairly "thin" white banding...
Even if they are the same though we don't have info on when that sales photo was taken?
Click to expand...

I am just thinking outside the box. I am not trying to take the pieces of information the owners are giving and making them fit. I am just looking...and the coloration on the first snake I posted that TOC claimed wasn't the correct snake, actually was more similar in coloration to the one the OP received is what I noticed.

*unless I am so confused that the snake being held is also not the correct one...sheesh!:shrug01:

If the snake being held is the correct one that was supposedly sold, then the snake received must have done a drastic turn in the time that the OP had it..this whole thing to me makes NO sense (bright green to ugly black?)...soooo..I am just putting information that I see out there and seeing what comes of it.

*one suggestion was a "dormant" illness...perhaps shipping made the snake change colors in the time frame suggested and develop the issues revealed by the OP.

Harald will tell you..I usually think outside the box and my logic can sometime make sense to no one but me.:yesnod::D But he usually gets it later (even if my reasoning is wrong).
 
Oh poop let me do that better:
I'm pretty convinced the dead snake matches up with the one in the photograph sent by touch of class reptiles

stayclassy.jpg


The marking seem to fit perfectly. I haven't really looked at the other one yet but that immediately jumped out to me.

So, bottom line, at least one of the snakes sent by touch of class reptiles is certainly dead within a week of arriving, and arrived with lesions that would be most obvious under the part hidden by the hand. Or maybe the photos by touch of class were taken well before these snakes were sent. Either way, that IS the snake sent and the poster is DEFINITELY owed a refund on these animals.
And while their at it touch of class better check their eyes and their remaining animals if they didn't notice these problems :/
 
deborahbroadus said:
I am just thinking outside the box. I am not trying to take the pieces of information the owners are giving and making them fit. I am just looking...and the coloration on the first snake I posted that TOC claimed wasn't the correct snake, actually was more similar in coloration to the one the OP received is what I noticed.

*unless I am so confused that the snake being held is also not the correct one...sheesh!:shrug01:

If the snake being held is the correct one that was supposedly sold, then the snake received must have done a drastic turn in the time that the OP had it..this whole thing to me makes NO sense (bright green to ugly black?)...soooo..I am just putting information that I see out there and seeing what comes of it.

*one suggestion was a "dormant" illness...perhaps shipping made the snake change colors in the time frame suggested and develop the issues revealed by the OP.

Harald will tell you..I usually think outside the box and my logic can sometime make sense to no one but me.:yesnod::D But he usually gets it later (even if my reasoning is wrong).
Click to expand...

Deb,

so no one gets confused here. Touch of Class Reptiles only has one and single owner, Kelvin Soto.
 
Out of curiosity, what COULD make a snake go from vibrant green to that blackish whatever you wanna call it color?
 
Geckomomma said:
It looked like that on arrival though, and unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't dead on arrival.
Click to expand...

Most tree snakes who are ill from being kept in poor captive conditions and get fungal and skin infections and vitamin loss from parasite loads get that 'blackish' skin. I've seen it WAY to many times from imports. That took weeks not days to get that way.

My personal thought is the bottom photo was taken the day the snake came into Touch of Clueless ................. I mean class, and used for placing the ad(s). I used to know a loser importer here that would pull that kind of shit. The results of improper care is what the poor baby was reduced to and sold in that condition after probably being kept for weeks if not months in a rubbermaid with to much humidity, not enough heat, proper lighting and not enough food.

But that's just my opinion.
 
ophidile said:
Oh poop let me do that better:
I'm pretty convinced the dead snake matches up with the one in the photograph sent by touch of class reptiles

stayclassy.jpg


The marking seem to fit perfectly. I haven't really looked at the other one yet but that immediately jumped out to me.

So, bottom line, at least one of the snakes sent by touch of class reptiles is certainly dead within a week of arriving, and arrived with lesions that would be most obvious under the part hidden by the hand. Or maybe the photos by touch of class were taken well before these snakes were sent. Either way, that IS the snake sent and the poster is DEFINITELY owed a refund on these animals.
And while their at it touch of class better check their eyes and their remaining animals if they didn't notice these problems :/
Click to expand...

I agree. Those marks completely match up. Even the marks outside the circled area match. Wouldn't be surprised if the ad picture was taken when the snake arrived at A Touch of Class. :shrug01:
 
TouchofClass said:
Hello,

My name Kelvin Soto and I am owner of Touch of Class. I saw and sepreated the snakes before my emp[olyee shipped the snakes. They emeralds was perfect. I will not permit or allow an animal that is sick to be sent out, for it to be returned to me. All my animals are de-womred an guranteed eating. Jason, why did you not tell us right when you recieved the snakes? Like our term say. If it was sick why did you not return the snake? We have many emaralds and would have sent you another one. Why would you take the snake to the vet or do examinations on it to waste more money than you spent when you simply could have returned them and i send you another one. Also the picture that is shown by Jason only shows a photo of the snakes neck. We sent a snake that was Green, Yellow, and White. The picture he is sending is a total green snake. Jason, again i ask to you, Why did you wait over 2 days? when all you has to do was send an email the day you recieved then snake and we would have sent you another one. WHy would you pay for an examoination? YOu should have sent us an email and we would have sent you another one. THis is why reptile buisness are how they are, you are working with a new company but we having doing this for long time. I do not wish to speak of this anymore. If you would have told us the same day and we would sent you new snake. Also to an email that was recieved by Donnie Alverson, threating my company. I have not been doing reptile shows cause things have not been selling. Nex time I in show, Donnie Please you come to table of mines and tell me what was said in the email and so you can see the animals we offer.

-Kelvin Soto
Owner of Touch of CLass Reptiles
Click to expand...

Uhm, perhaps because this is the right thing to do when an animal is clearly ill. I dunno just throwing this out there but for those of us who actually care about the well being of the animals we have and sell when an animal gets sick we try to get it better and that sometimes requires a vet especially when the condition is clearly not something that's gonna be taken care off by a home remedy. Sometimes it also ends up costing more money than the animal is worth on the market but when your first priority is the animal's well being then you tend to do what you have to do.

If this was something someone studying Vet medicine was overwhelmed by who are you to sit there and question his decision to take the animal to someone with more expertise when you yourself probably don't have anywhere near the amount of expertise in the medical field as the OP. I guess the animal's well being isn't that important to you huh or at least not as much as the money you make from them. One question, what would you have done with these animals had they been returned immediately? Somehow I don't get the feeling like they would have received the proper treatment required.
 
Hope i am not out of place here but i would like to put in my opinion.I bought several reptiles from touch of class at the show in ga. They all appeared heathy at the time it was several iguanas as well as a few plated lizards.I got them at the end of the show and they were in netted bags with feces stains all over them i know that the stains could have not come from my reptiles.I asked about that and they claimed the iguanas were stressed from the trip and all the attention they have been getting.The iguanas died 4 days after i got themhome and the lizards 2 weeks.I would have posted a bad guy thread but i have no emails or anything i have to try to contact by e-mail and phone several times to no avail..so if you read this toc please know that several people know about your buiness or the lack of..
 
turbine said:
I agree. Those marks completely match up. Even the marks outside the circled area match. Wouldn't be surprised if the ad picture was taken when the snake arrived at A Touch of Class. :shrug01:
Click to expand...

This is what i have been saying the whole time. The pictures i posted are the snakes i sent. And no, even though everyone wants to believe that the pictures were taken when we first got the snakes...that is defiantly not true. The picture was taken 11/13/09. I know this because we had another customer asking for a pair of ETB and wanted pictures, Kelvin probed the Emeralds and separated the two from the rest. I then took pictures and sent them to the customer. (The email was still in the "Sent" folder)...When i shipped the snakes there was no scars or fungus...Is this really that hard to believe? Perhaps this "dormant" or "incubating" fungus "awoke" because stress of shipping? Sure, it could have happened. All i know is that i have been completely truthful on here, therefore have nothing more to prove. Jason, I wish you the best with your studies, you will make a great Vet. I also wish that snake a speedy recovery. I also, hope you can work something out with Kelvin.

Take Care,
Alex Estrada
 
I'm not entirely unconvinced that the pictures originally posted in the ad are not edited. There's a subtle noise/graininess to the photos that suggest contrast and/or saturation enhancement., or a really weird camera.

I feel it is necessary however to point out that I am NOT an expert by any means. It just might be worth looking into. I apologize in advance if it turns out that it is not the case.
 
alexestrada17 said:
All i know is that i have been completely truthful on here, therefore have nothing more to prove. Jason, I wish you the best with your studies, you will make a great Vet. I also wish that snake a speedy recovery. I also, hope you can work something out with Kelvin.

Take Care,
Alex Estrada
Click to expand...
You know the saying...."wish in one hand......". You may have been truthful, but you have certainly been lacking in any attempt to help either the buyer with the animals you packed and shipped or your employer's reputation. I know you are working in a limited capacity to help with either, but I don't see how the "Just doing my job" angle really benefits you. In my eyes Alex Estrada is synonymous with Touch of Class....like it or not, your presence here, coupled with the glaring lack of any attempt at a resolution, will affect your reputation. You are the public face of this company. Tell me you can't already hear people saying...."Oh, yeah....Alex Estrada....he works wit those scumbags over at Touch of Class". I hope you don't plan on staying in reptiles for very long....it's easier to build a good reputation in this community than it is to shake a bad one.

Kaminoke said:
I'm not entirely unconvinced that the pictures originally posted in the ad are not edited. There's a subtle noise/graininess to the photos that suggest contrast and/or saturation enhancement., or a really weird camera.

I feel it is necessary however to point out that I am NOT an expert by any means. It just might be worth looking into. I apologize in advance if it turns out that it is not the case.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. Is there anyone here that can check the time stamp and history of that photo?
 
I know that's what you've been saying - however you also said the snakes looked healthy, and one is dead within a week! From what I know of reptiles (fortunately I have never gotten one that was so unhealthy) snakes do not deteriorate like that.
The statement from touch of class was that "the animals we shipped did not look like that". There is proof they did look like that.

alexestrada17 said:
This is what i have been saying the whole time. The pictures i posted are the snakes i sent. And no, even though everyone wants to believe that the pictures were taken when we first got the snakes...that is defiantly not true. The picture was taken 11/13/09. I know this because we had another customer asking for a pair of ETB and wanted pictures, Kelvin probed the Emeralds and separated the two from the rest. I then took pictures and sent them to the customer. (The email was still in the "Sent" folder)...When i shipped the snakes there was no scars or fungus...Is this really that hard to believe? Perhaps this "dormant" or "incubating" fungus "awoke" because stress of shipping? Sure, it could have happened. All i know is that i have been completely truthful on here, therefore have nothing more to prove. Jason, I wish you the best with your studies, you will make a great Vet. I also wish that snake a speedy recovery. I also, hope you can work something out with Kelvin.

Take Care,
Alex Estrada
Click to expand...
 
Kaminoke said:
I'm not entirely unconvinced that the pictures originally posted in the ad are not edited. There's a subtle noise/graininess to the photos that suggest contrast and/or saturation enhancement., or a really weird camera.

I feel it is necessary however to point out that I am NOT an expert by any means. It just might be worth looking into. I apologize in advance if it turns out that it is not the case.
Click to expand...

The photos were taken with a Sony Cyber-Shot (12.1 Mega Pixels)..flash was used as well...the camera also has Full HD 1080 Still Image...I dont know much about photography so I dont know if that makes a difference. The only way this picture was "altered" or "editied" was that is was resized to 800 x 600 using a program called resizejpegs to make the upload process much quicker. Nothing else was altered or edited on the photos taken.
 
MikeCurtin said:
You know the saying...."wish in one hand......". You may have been truthful, but you have certainly been lacking in any attempt to help either the buyer with the animals you packed and shipped or your employer's reputation. I know you are working in a limited capacity to help with either, but I don't see how the "Just doing my job" angle really benefits you. In my eyes Alex Estrada is synonymous with Touch of Class....like it or not, your presence here, coupled with the glaring lack of any attempt at a resolution, will affect your reputation. You are the public face of this company. Tell me you can't already hear people saying...."Oh, yeah....Alex Estrada....he works wit those scumbags over at Touch of Class". I hope you don't plan on staying in reptiles for very long....it's easier to build a good reputation in this community than it is to shake a bad one.


I was thinking the same thing. Is there anyone here that can check the time stamp and history of that photo?
Click to expand...

Mike,

I have never said Jason switched the snakes, reading Kelvin's post i believe that is what he suggested. I will Show kelvin my photos with the one of Jason dead specian and do all i can to help Jason out.
 
alexestrada17 said:
Mike,

I have never said Jason switched the snakes, reading Kelvin's post i believe that is what he suggested. I will Show kelvin my photos with the one of Jason dead specian and do all i can to help Jason out.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting you did. The snakes appear to have the same pattern as in the photo. I was emphasising your role/responsibility in this matter. I don't believe those conditions would present themselves within 2-3 days....at least not in that severity. Despite your claim of being truthful, I don't think anyone on here believes those lesions would form in that short time frame.

Hopefully, you can help out.
 
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